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UAL May Offer 'Bare Fare'  
User currently offlineNopeotone From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 158 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10354 times:

Since this is off the Etrade site, the link will not work for the source. But it seems United may offer an even cheaper fare for customers who don't care about seat assignments/mileage points.

United Air Looks At 'Bare Fare' For Low-Cost Customers

Dec 12, 2006 11:42:00 (ET)

CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--United Airlines, a unit of UAL Corp. (UAUA), believes that "there's clearly a commodity customer who wants basic transportation at a basic price," said Gregory Taylor, senior vice president of planning.

United is thinking of offering a "bare fare," which wouldn't include assigned seats or mileage points, said Taylor, speaking at the carrier's investor day on Tuesday.

"We need to have the low fare" to compete with low-cost airlines, he said


61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10339 times:
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Here I was thinking that UA was going to offer a discounted fare for flying nude. You know every little bit of weight counts for better fuel consumption  Big grin


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24636 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10261 times:
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Quoting Nopeotone (Thread starter):
"We need to have the low fare" to compete with low-cost airlines, he said

I thought that was Ted's job?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10263 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 1):
Here I was thinking that UA was going to offer a discounted fare for flying nude. You know every little bit of weight counts for better fuel consumption

While I wouldn't ever fly nude (or even promote it), I fly 1/2 the time without any luggage (and I'm only 160 lbs), maybe AA should give me a rebate 1/2 time I fly..after all, I'm saving them a lot of fuel...

[Edited 2006-12-12 20:40:26]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10168 times:

I think a bare fare would be a good idea:

-No points
-No assigned seat
-No luggage to check (add $25 for each bag?)

But, then the marketing people would gripe a bit because the airlines effectively do this with some of the blind-bid services (minus the luggage) and don't want to undercut themselves even more - much less 'blur the products'.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10126 times:

Bad idea:

1) Please let United stick to its high standards (and not lower them any more)
2) fares are already low. It costs less to fly across the country than in did 25 years ago.
3) What would distinguish United? No miles. No upgrades. No E+. Channel nine?



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16937 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9997 times:

Quoting Nopeotone (Thread starter):
United is thinking of offering a "bare fare," which wouldn't include assigned seats or mileage points, said Taylor, speaking at the carrier's investor day on Tuesday.

This is what Ted should have been all along. It should have been a bargain bin fare (like Tango fares at Air Canada....the similarities are NOT a coincidence), instead of the bloody retarded airline within an airline.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29684 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9964 times:
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The problem with this idea is that it creates more work on the back-end. Day of flight, UA computers and gate agents are going to have to start figuring out where to put people. And you know you're going to have couples and families of three to six people who are all on a "bare fare" and who all want to sit together. This is all going to take time as well as take time away from assisting other customers (standbys, upgraders waiting to clear, etc.).

Add to the fact UA usually has, at best, two people working the counter on narrowbodies and three on widebodies, when one of them leaves to go start the boarding process, the agent lines will back-up even more.

Plus, with UA filling the back with fares that allow one to pick a seat but being bought by people who are not UA elites (and therefore cannot reserve Economy Plus) means that these "bare fare" folks are going to get parked up front and for paying the minimum price, will enjoy extra pitch. And then when it comes time to asking elites to move from their pre-chosen seats and shuffle around the E+ cabin to accommodate large "bare fare" groups is just going to honk them off.


User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9938 times:

the seats would be assigned at check in i would think not at the gate

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29684 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9924 times:
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Quoting Pictues (Reply 8):
the seats would be assigned at check in i would think not at the gate

True, but one can imagine there will need to be a number of "change requests" presented at the gate.


User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

Bad Idea:

They already have FC, E+, and E-

Now they want to add Bare Fares? United needs to realize they can't be everything to everyone. What are we going to call it "E2-" or "-E-" ?


User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9786 times:

They are following the Air Canada lead. That is what AC does. You have several options for your fare starting at the "bare" fare and adding perks with a price. That is why AC dropped the lowest fares from the agency's dristribution system (SaBRe, Worldspan, etc) because those system are not able to sell the different options now offered by AC's fares.

I think it was smart for AC to do this. It is the best way to compete with the LCCs. Look at AA now for example. They don't know what they are anymore. The biggest airline in the world trying to catch all the premium business travelers but are selling food (and now drinks) on board. Instead, they could offer this type of bare fare for those that demand without miles, seat assignment ect, while adding economy plus with complimentary meals at a higher fare. TED is a joke. they should go get rid of it and go with this system of lowerfares.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9786 times:

But UA HAS tried to be all things to all people for a long time.

AC has had "bare fares" for some time. I'd be interested in how they have worked up there.

I don't think it makes much sense unless you clearly differentiate the product... and Ted should have been the place to have a differentiated product and there isn't much.

Bare fares are much more complicated when you run a network and intermingle "bare fares" with other types of passengers.

But the real downside is that there will be carriers that will match UA's "bare fares" but offer a quality product. UA has to promote its "bare fare" while other carriers sell a higher quality product at the same price leve.

Surely, UA knows this has been tried before and hasn't worked.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9676 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
And you know you're going to have couples and families of three to six people who are all on a "bare fare" and who all want to sit together. This is all going to take time as well as take time away from assisting other customers (standbys, upgraders waiting to clear, etc.).

Except if the product was implemented, UA would just be like, deal with it, this is the fare you bought. It's not as big of a deal if you know what you're getting into.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9596 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 11):
I think it was smart for AC to do this.

I agree. And one more thing about AC's tango fares: in my opinion, their web site makes it very clear what the limitations of each fare that's shown are (each fare is tagged appropriately and with one click you get to a clear fare comparison table). I think this is key; if you mix the different fares and not make it clear what each of them means, you will only piss off customers when you don't give them, say, the miles they expected they'd get.

My  twocents 

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9554 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
thought that was Ted's job?

Not directed at you Mariner, so please duck..... YOU TELLIN ME THAT TED CANT DO THE JOB?!?! They must have fired Ted. Sad! LOL!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9537 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 14):
I agree. And one more thing about AC's tango fares: in my opinion, their web site makes it very clear what the limitations of each fare that's shown are (each fare is tagged appropriately and with one click you get to a clear fare comparison table). I think this is key; if you mix the different fares and not make it clear what each of them means, you will only piss off customers when you don't give them, say, the miles they expected they'd get.

My

Tony

I highly agree. If UA decides to do this they need to make ALL fares transparent as AC does.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5343 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9477 times:

Quoting Nopeotone (Thread starter):
"We need to have the low fare" to compete with low-cost airlines, he said

I guess I don't get it at all.

"We NEED to have the LOW fare" he said???

That's exactly why the legacies were losing hundreds of millions over the past few years. They tried to compete by lowering the, already loss making, fares.

What are they saving here in the way of costs??

With the exception of some FF miles saved, I only see higher costs to implement this.

IMO the drive should be to lower costs, not fares. You cannot compete with LCCs simple by lowering fares, without changing anything else.

Provide a better product for the same or even higher fare (and lower costs even), and I might just choose UA and they might make a little more money.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9424 times:

Theres some good things and some bad things about this. The good thing is that prices will be lower for the coustomer, but, this could bring down the United image with their standards for frequent fliers. I dont know about you, but I think the way United and their pricing is right now should stay.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24636 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9342 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Not directed at you Mariner, so please duck.

I ducked.  Smile

But your point is absolutely valid and the same as my own.

If Ted isn't combatting the LCC's - which is why Ted was brought into existence - what is Ted doing?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

This looks like a scheme to remove benefits from lower fare levels as it is. Not exactly playing nice, and a very good way to piss off Mileage Plus elites.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNopeotone From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

I could see this working if they offered maybe the last 3-4 rows of the plane at these 'bare fares'. Then if people would like seat changes for families, it is feasible. Also, quoting Mariner on what Ted is for, I'm not sure anyone knows. United has said it is profitable. But that is where these 'Bare Fares' should end up, if they want to keep Ted.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
which is why Ted was brought into existence

Actually....what's Ted's purpose now and beyond 2006? This whole idea makes Ted look like a joke. Come to think of it, when you fly on Ted, you are still on UA no matter what. Nothing really has changed except for the livery on the aircraft. The FA uniforms is the same as mainline. I think the intentions were good, but the question remains as far as long term effects and now UA comes up with this 'Bare Fare' idea. IMO, you can't have this both ways.

If you have a flight that has both 'Bare Fare' seats and normal fare seats, thats not very fair to the frequent flyer... If they are gonna do this, the flight should be 100% 'Bare', if you will.... Like I said, you cannot have it both ways. It favors UA than the customer.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16937 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9250 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
what is Ted doing?

Just being generally incompetent and not solving any problems...kinda like the consultants UA hired to cook up that aviation mushroom cloud of a hackneyed concept.  Silly

As an interesting sidenote, my friend pointed out that UA has more daily first class seats in TUS than in PHX: currently 36 in TUS versus 8 per day in PHX.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29684 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8935 times:
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Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 13):
Except if the product was implemented, UA would just be like, deal with it, this is the fare you bought. It's not as big of a deal if you know what you're getting into.

The whole point of such a fare would be to encourage people to fly UA because it is cheap. To then tell those people to go stuff themselves does just the opposite - plus generally has them telling their friends (and anyone else who would listen) to not fly UA, either.


25 Post contains images Mariner : I agree, but I think Ted will be around, in some form, as long as Mr. Tilton is CEO. Ted was his first major decison at United, and to can Ted now mi
26 SuseJ772 : I think this is a bad idea. It might in the short term acquire more sales of tourists/vacation fliers, but in the long run, United needs to think how
27 Lotsamiles : Negative impact: For corporations that insist on their employees using the lowest possible fare (or have computer systems that only book that way), yo
28 Thegooddoctor : Lets see, UA went from upwards of 30-40 flights per day in PHX to ORD, DEN, SFO, LAX, and IAD a few years ago to what, less than 20 now? Shuttle used
29 Sebring : AC will tell you that its system reduces cost. Keys include forcing all passenger and travel agents to book over the Internet, automating all aspects
30 RedTailDTW : Let's see, Ted has been around for how long? and they still haven't accomplished a thing. United hasn't even opened up new routes for Ted since its st
31 AADC10 : I think that if they had these "Bare Fares" they would not allow seat changes and would not allow children to use them. Those passengers would the be
32 Par13del : I have another question, UA spent a long time in Chpt. 11 so long in fact that the laws had to be changed. They supposedly emerged leaner and meaner,
33 Bond007 : Right. IMO you cannot offer these kind of fares without changing the whole pricing structure - something which should be done to all the legacies any
34 AirframeAS : While I agree, that was only a short-term solution at the time it was started up. The intentions were good, yes....but UA didnt think long-term. Beat
35 RedTailDTW : All flights out of PHX are on Ted except for flights to LAX and IAD.
36 Sebring : It's ironic but the brains behind the AC revenue model is ex-UA executive Montie Brewer, who is AC's CEO now. The key, he would tell you, is that the
37 AirframeAS : Flights to LAX are on UAExpress, correct? Flights to IAD is 'mainline', correct?
38 Post contains images UnitedMSY : What a stupid idea....UA already oversells the back of the planes like the it's a trend, and they offer more free tickets than I have ever seen, and o
39 Ckfred : Maybe the time has come for airlines to go to a three-class operation for domestic flying. The front cabin would be traditional first. The middle cabi
40 RedTailDTW : Yes, All flights to LAX are operated by United Express (6 Daily), and IAD flights are mainline (1 Daily).
41 AirframeAS : Thanks for the info, man.
42 LTBEWR : You already have very restricted discount fares with substantual penalties for changes, limits on or no FF miles and limited choices in seats (middle
43 Post contains links Boston92 : IMHO, I think that if they do go ahead and do these 'bare fares' then it should be available online only and here is how the process should go: 1. Fin
44 Post contains images RedTailDTW : Your Welcome.
45 AeroWesty : I'm really scratching my head on this one, but I believe that was tried once already, by National Airlines in the 1970's, and didn't last long. I tri
46 AADC10 : I looked at the "base fares" page of the investor's conference PowerPoint (as I should have in the first place) and the idea is to make aspects of the
47 Logos : National wasn't the only one. Continental also generally offered K (economy) class that got no meal service and sat in the very back in addition to Y
48 RyanAFAMSP : If I am not mistaken United has already tried this. Any United buffs out there remember the K fare? I am not sure if it was introduced in the 70s or t
49 Post contains images Tango-Bravo : All the more reason to make pax choose between cheap fares and mileage/points accrual -- as in no more you can have your cake (cheap fare) and eat it
50 Cactus742 : Yes, it seems like Ted and "bare fare" concept would be a natural fit - Ted to the tourism cities (eg, PHX and LAS) where there are fewer business tra
51 Planecrazy2 : The base fares according to the pdf are for non-elites.
52 Post contains images Lightsaber : It works as long as people know what they're buying... judging from all the option ARM loans... people don't know! I think its a great idea until I p
53 KstateinALB : I thought that they were going to use that of the frequent fliers. You might be right. Anyone know?
54 Ualcsr : Sounds a little too much like Ryanair. What's next, plastic seats and manual check in?
55 N1120A : I get tired of this elitist "pay for it" stuff all the time. What United should be concentrating on is not taking services away, but making sure they
56 Tockeyhockey : does UA really need to be the every-airline to all people? they seem to serve the business community better than any other american airline. and their
57 FCYTravis : US was going to stupidly try this a few years back. Only the highest fare classes would earn elite credit... then Preferred members went ballistic and
58 CX777Fan : This is exactly the role that Jetstar plays in Australia, while QF's domestic product distinguishes its self by still offering miles, hot meals and a
59 ORDflier : Maybe UA is just looking at expanding their offering thru "bulk" sellers such as Priceline... where customers do not get to choose seat assignments or
60 Post contains images Tango-Bravo : Actually, if United's own claims are accurate, Ted makes sense in a profitable "sort of way." And in reality, it "basically says" that since Ted is p
61 Tommy777 : Exactly. United is making money as we speak. They have successfully adapted to the "LCC" for many years now. I fly UA to NYC almost every week for bu
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