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Virgin Blue Approved For US Flights  
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11730 times:

bid goodnight to SQ and the Sydney-Los Angeles route.

VIRGIN Blue plans to launch a long-haul international airline on US routes have been given a green light by the airline¿s board as Australia¿s second biggest carrier yesterday upgraded its net profit forecast by 40 per cent to more than $158 million.


Virgin said the revised forecast followed an improvement in market conditions and the airline’s performance as the result of initiatives launched last year.

The airline said it would now begin a planning and implementation phase of its plan to fly wide-body aircraft to the US and possibly some Asian destinations.

”Subject to conditions such as regulatory approval, the granting of adequate bilateral access and the conclusion of aircraft negotiations, the airline expects to launch international long-haul operations by late 2008,” it said.

Virgin’s moves to push ahead with its US plans will come as a blow to Singapore Airlines, which had hoped to capitalise on a takeover of Qantas by private equity firms to push its own aspirations to fly on the lucrative US route.

The federal Government cited a desire to see another Australian airline fly on the route as a major reason for denying Singapore access to the route earlier this year.

It has reiterated that view as recently as this week.

Source The Australian

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20920497-23349,00.html


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHoosierCFI From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11619 times:

Glad to see that UA and QF will be getting some competition. Hopefully, it will push the fares back down to the level that they were at when NZ still flew the route non-stop.

User currently offlineWerkur767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11583 times:

Which aircraft will be chosen, problably A340-313X, is it?

I don't think they'll use the B747-400s, because to commonoly the fleet, is better the Airbus A343, to be transfer from Virgin Atlantic.


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 2):
Which aircraft will be chosen, problably A340-313X, is it?

I don't think they'll use the B747-400s, because to commonoly the fleet, is better the Airbus A343, to be transfer from Virgin Atlantic.

I think we're talking A346 v 773ER here. Godfrey has gone on record as saying he doesn't particularly care as long as they can get the planes.
They still have to source aircraft and get daily access to US routes. I think TOLL are also looking at freighters for Asian services, which could point to a combined 773ER/777F order.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11516 times:

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 2):
Which aircraft will be chosen, problably A340-313X, is it?

I don't think they'll use the B747-400s, because to commonoly the fleet, is better the Airbus A343, to be transfer from Virgin Atlantic.

VS won't be involved in any plane transfer...it will be basically between the A346 and B773ER....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3291 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11505 times:

If Virgin Atlantic keeps on removing A343s from its fleet, perhaps these could serve as a stopgap measure to allow Virgin Blue to start American operations?

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11438 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 5):
If Virgin Atlantic keeps on removing A343s from its fleet, perhaps these could serve as a stopgap measure to allow Virgin Blue to start American operations?

Why do people keep saying this? DJ and VS have nothing in common except one miniroity share holder SRB, who holds maybe 20-25%, while Toll holds 50%+

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineVirginCrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

DJ and VS have alot in common.

SRB was the founder !!!

They share cabin crew on a yearly basis, by way of an exchange.

DJ is a Virgin company !!!

DJ is a sister company !



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11393 times:

The title is misleading, not intentionally so, because the article was misleading.

They've received no actual approval to fly these routes.

Their board has approved their plans. Australia and the United States still have some say.

I dunno if this is good or bad.... I am sure Aussie travelers will enjoy enhanced choice.

NS


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

Quoting VirginCrew (Reply 8):
DJ is a Virgin company !!!

Sorry DJ is a TOLL company, using the licienced Virgin brand! They are NOT sister companies!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11220 times:

Surely SQ would like to get involved with this?

I think they own 49% of VS & if they can't get into the OZ/US market directly, this is one way they could. Surely they could buy 49% of DJ international ?

Would SQ be able to find aircraft required from their own fleet ?


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11147 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 10):
Surely they could buy 49% of DJ international ?

There already is DJ International and it's called Pacific Blue and operates flights out of NZ and Australia. Virgin Australia, DJ, is not allowed to use the Virgin name outside of Australia and if I'm right I think SQ has the veto on this.

I assume that SQ could only buy into the international operation if it was a joint venture between Toll, who own DJ and SQ but even then that wouldn't give SQ what it really wants which is its planes flying the Pacific.

I'm sure some of the business headed guys on here will be able to suggest some structure that might work.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11100 times:

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 11):
There already is DJ International and it's called Pacific Blue and operates flights out of NZ and Australia. Virgin Australia, DJ, is not allowed to use the Virgin name outside of Australia and if I'm right I think SQ has the veto on this.

I assume that SQ could only buy into the international operation if it was a joint venture between Toll, who own DJ and SQ but even then that wouldn't give SQ what it really wants which is its planes flying the Pacific.

I'm sure some of the business headed guys on here will be able to suggest some structure that might work.

Surely by now, DJ has discussed with SQ the use of the Virgin name. I don't think flights to USA will operate under Pacific Blue banner, as that sends the wrong message, meaning DJ Int will be more upmarket that Pacific Blue.

Don't think there's anything that could stop DJ from leasing SQ aircraft (wet leasing would make it easy to start with) & leave aircraft painted in SQ colours with the famous SQ flight attendants. Or some sort of combi livery showing the SQ ownership, if that were to happen. SQ have the best name in the world for service, without doubt, so it could only help.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11088 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 10):
Surely they could buy 49% of DJ international ?

Only if Toll will sell it to them! Which they might, but I would guess that Toll and SQ would never agree on price.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 11):
There already is DJ International and it's called Pacific Blue and operates flights out of NZ and Australia. Virgin Australia, DJ, is not allowed to use the Virgin name outside of Australia and if I'm right I think SQ has the veto on this.

It's not clear yet if Pacific Blue will be the operating enity for this. It could be, BUT it does NOT have an Oz AOC (airline licience) it has an NZ one, which could cause problems as an Oz designated carrier.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11043 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 13):
Only if Toll will sell it to them! Which they might, but I would guess that Toll and SQ would never agree on price.

I don't know about that. SQ would be very VERY keen to be involved & it seems the only likely way they could be involved in OZ/US flights in the near future.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 14):
I don't know about that. SQ would be very VERY keen to be involved & it seems the only likely way they could be involved in OZ/US flights in the near future.

I doubt it. I am sure SQ would rather run their own Oz-USA services. They would buy into DJs plans IF THE PRICE WERE RIGHT. Somehow I feel that what SQ think is the right price and what Toll think is the right price are two very different things. AFAIK Toll is not actively seeking finance for the venture so what incentive would they have to allow SQ in? You dont just give away half the farm unless you have too.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting VirginCrew (Reply 7):

SRB has got nothing to do with DJs order, and has been said DJ isn't a Virgin Company


User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 3):
I think we're talking A346 v 773ER here. Godfrey has gone on record as saying he doesn't particularly care as long as they can get the planes.
They still have to source aircraft and get daily access to US routes. I think TOLL are also looking at freighters for Asian services, which could point to a combined 773ER/777F order.

Who believes that Virgin Blue (or whatever entity of Virgin will run this trans-pacific service) will get 773ER's by the end of 2008?

I would have to say on the basis of probabilities that they will not be using the 77W or 77C. In fact, it will be very hard for DJ to secure any type of 777 before that date.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8151 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 14):
I don't know about that. SQ would be very VERY keen to be involved & it seems the only likely way they could be involved in OZ/US flights in the near future.

SQ won't even codeshare with their own Star Alliance partners and you're suggesting that they would be interested in "lending their identity" to some minor carrier? Are you dreaming?  Smile IF SQ can't server the route themselves they will no be involved in it, short of just having a ownership stake in the airline in question.


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 10519 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):

SQ won't even codeshare with their own Star Alliance partners

What do you mean by this? We have SQ codes on some NZ domestic flights.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 2):
Which aircraft will be chosen, problably A340-313X, is it?

If it's gonna be in 2008, why go the A343 route when everybody else is looking at using newer aircraft? My guess is they'll go A346 coz goodluck getting some 773's by then.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8151 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 10402 times:

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 19):
What do you mean by this? We have SQ codes on some NZ domestic flights.

That was a tongue in cheek comment, sorry. Filghts with a SQ codeshare are very few. SQ is very reluctant to do that.


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8684 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17):
Who believes that Virgin Blue (or whatever entity of Virgin will run this trans-pacific service) will get 773ER's by the end of 2008?

I would have to say on the basis of probabilities that they will not be using the 77W or 77C. In fact, it will be very hard for DJ to secure any type of 777 before that date.

They may have 773ER slots reserved for them, either direct from Boeing or through a lessor. Godfrey has said they can get either 346/773ER in the desired timeframe on several occasions and it matters little which type is chosen(which I don't really believe). I take your point about 777 deliveries and new orders taken recently point to a full 777 line until 2009 and possibly 2010. I can only assume DJ has reserved 773ER(and 346) slots, which will have to be exercised in the very near future, or they will be lost.


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Some more news from this mornings The Australian:

"...The new airline is looking at wide-body planes capable of flying non-stop to the US, as the Airbus A340-600 and the Boeing 777-300ER.

The planes can carry between 420 and 450 passengers more than 14,000km in a two-class configuration, the seating arrangement used by Jetstar International.

Aircraft manufacturers Boeing and Airbus have been holding open slots in their production schedules to supply seven planes, pending final talks..."


Link to full article here


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 8089 times:

Thanks Flyjetstar. That confirms both Airbus/Boeing are holding slots for DJ.

25 Jacobin777 : According to the aformentioned article..this is a bigger issue.. "The airline, owned by Virgin Blue, has yet to set ticket prices but one analyst said
26 Juventus : Well did they decide on LAX or SFO?
27 Australia1 : No, they are getting sick of dealing with corrupt Australian politicians who are in QF's pocket & this way they can bypass them. It would be fantasti
28 Flyjetstar : That's a big call. Can you prove the politicians are corrupt? Sure QF have the ear of CBR but to then say that because of that the politicians are co
29 Australia1 : You're kidding right? There's no rational reason to protect QF. We need tourists badly. With coming recession, we'll need them more than ever & prote
30 Flyjetstar : Nope. Prove they are corrupt. That's a big call to make against someone. And what you have written here: does not prove corruption. All it says is th
31 Gemuser : Offer evidance that we need more tourists more than we need to protect QF! You could be right, but an unjustified, bald statement is worthless! Gemus
32 Australia1 : Be realistic, all politicians are corrupt, that's why they get into politics to feather their own nest. Anyway, back on topic ... with the QF takeover
33 Flyjetstar : Nah mate I don't believe that. And if I did I'd have to take some responsibility for that cause I put them there. You undermine your arguments with t
34 Australia1 : Ok, economics 101 ... Australia's been thru a BIG boom over last 4 or 5 years & we all know what follows a boom, a bust & the higher the boom, the lo
35 Gemuser : Agreed, but prove that this is worse for the country than not providing protection to QF. Not saying it is, not saying it is not, just saying you hav
36 Australia1 : SQ had a pretty good argument, but were ignored by CBR. With todays announcement, lots of QF jobs will go, so not protecting Australians employment a
37 Flyjetstar : They were not ignored. They presented their case and they didn't get the outcome they wanted. Based on? Just because QF is Australian owned it protec
38 Australia1 : with todays announcement, effective control will go to U.S. interests & the banks. QF's biggest problem is it's incredibly large & overpaid workforce
39 Flyjetstar : Mate! You manage to draw a long bow with almost anything.
40 Australia1 : nobody spends $11B unless they think they're going to be making a lot of money. The question is, what will be left in 5 years time ? Anything at all
41 HKGKaiTak : I doubt any tourist will care what they fly to ASP, DRW, PER, AYQ, ADL, HBA, LST, SYD, BNE, OOL etc etc etc on so long as they get there and they get
42 Post contains images Monteycarlos : With respect to your comment on the 773ER, not what I heard.
43 Australia1 : With the QF PR debacle, am sure that if DJ could get aircraft sooner, they would as they could certainly capitalise on the Americanising of QF.
44 Monteycarlos : I am sure DJ would absolutely love it, but I am almost certain (barring absolute positive confirmation from unnamed sources) that DJ cannot get the p
45 Australia1 : I though DJ announced that they would be flying to U.S. in Jan08 ?
46 Monteycarlos : Late 2008...
47 Australia1 : R u sure ? Am sure I read something that said Jan ????
48 Monteycarlos : The email sent to DJ staff said late 2008.
49 Monteycarlos : "The planning and implementation phase of long haul USA will now be expedited and subject to conditions such as regulatory approval, the granting of a
50 Scorpy : Does anyone know if DJ plans to join an alliance or to extend their relationship with UA? While having them on the route will be great for competition
51 Post contains images Concorde001 : Well, if Virgin America gets the go-ahead, then DJ may join with the other Virgin airlines to form something like this: For the short-term, a codesha
52 Scorpy : This could work; if Virgin America can get a network built up. I think they would need more than just an SFO hub however. I fly the SYD-SFO(or LAX) r
53 Australia1 : all this talk of frequent flyer programmes !!! Do they have any life left ? A few years maybe or just for business types paying full freight ? You don
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