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AC/UA Leaving Star Alliance?  
User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 967 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15046 times:

I've been listening some rumours both from sources in the US and in Europe that United and Air Canada are seriously thinking about leave Star Alliance, in part due the way the alliance is being managed by Lufthansa.

Anyone heard similar rumours around?

Cheers

RS


"ad astra per aspera"
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15029 times:

Big loss for Air Canada and United.

Particularly Air Canada has cut off interline ties with nearly 150 airlines and will only focus on Star Alliance. UNITED has revenue sharing agreement with Lufthansa which partly helped them to survive the ch.11.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14956 times:

Anyone who has seen the United operation at ORD knows that the two are so integrated here on transatlantic runs that UA would be crazy to leave.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14910 times:

Quoting S.p.a.s. (Thread starter):
I've been listening some rumours both from sources in the US and in Europe that United and Air Canada are seriously thinking about leave Star Alliance, in part due the way the alliance is being managed by Lufthansa

Given that not only does LH/UA codeshare but revenue share on North American flights, I doubt one will see UA leave Star Alliance...

I can't say too much about AC...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14907 times:

I call shenanigans on that rumour. There is no way that the 2 founding members will leave.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineMattMSP767 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14880 times:

Please don't post 'rumors' unless you have some sort of source to back up your claims referenced within the post.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14826 times:

Quoting S.p.a.s. (Thread starter):
I've been listening some rumours both from sources in the US and in Europe that United and Air Canada are seriously thinking about leave Star Alliance

Another baseless imagination rumour?


User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14826 times:

AC also revenue shares on Canada-Germany services with LH.

User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14807 times:

Quoting S.p.a.s. (Thread starter):
I've been listening some rumours both from sources in the US and in Europe that United and Air Canada are seriously thinking about leave Star Alliance, in part due the way the alliance is being managed by Lufthansa.

Yeah I heard from my uncle's friend's sister's boyfriend's barber's mistress' doctor that AC is leaving and that WS will become the Star member from Canada.  Yeah sure

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
Given that not only does LH/UA codeshare but revenue share on North American flights,

AC and LH have similar revenue sharing agreement.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14808 times:

What a ridiculous rumour. Two of the founding airlines leaving? C'mon. Who are your sources? Your sources are out to lunch...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
I can't say too much about AC...

I can, I'm an AC employee. AC revenue shares with LH on transatlantic runs also. Also, AC and UA are practically joined at the hip. The relationship between AC and UA is probably the strongest of any, it was also the first of its kind.

No way in bloody hell would AC and UA (both founding members) leave STAR.



Word
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14755 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 8):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
Given that not only does LH/UA codeshare but revenue share on North American flights,

AC and LH have similar revenue sharing agreement.



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 9):

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
I can't say too much about AC...

I can, I'm an AC employee. AC revenue shares with LH on transatlantic runs also. Also, AC and UA are practically joined at the hip. The relationship between AC and UA is probably the strongest of any, it was also the first of its kind.

No way in bloody hell would AC and UA (both founding members) leave STAR.

Thanks for the updates regarding AC... Smile

Guess we got our information then...I dont' see either of the two then leaving Star Alliance...... no 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineClogman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14692 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 9):
I'm an AC employee

Or whatever you wanna call it. You lazy ass bum. ;o)

But to get back on the topic I cant see either why the heck they should leave the strongest alliance.
The chance of SAS leaving is much bigger  Smile Which I hope never happens.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14694 times:
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Didn't you hear...UA is gonna leave Star and move to SkyTeam when they acquire CO in merger.  box   bouncy   twocents 

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14651 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 12):
UA is gonna leave Star and move to SkyTeam when they acquire CO in merger.

CO not too amused with Skyteam and may move to Star once merge with UA.


User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14481 times:

AC or UA will never leave Star Alliance in the near future, and i doubt they ever will. Star has done many things for both airlines. I think you should reconsider who you use for your sourses and try better next time.

[Edited 2006-12-13 23:25:40]


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14416 times:

Strangely enough, I heard a few weeks ago in airlines circles something about AC leaving or being booted out of Star. I asked an AC contact who ran that up the line and was told there is nothing going on, but I have to admit there have been tensions. I don't know where UA fits into this, but AC is both criticized and admired within Star for its totally different pricing structure which it wants to push for all its flights worldwide, and of course LH is also intimately involved in the CRS world, where AC has been a leader in the revolt against high transaction charges and inflexible display capabilities. AC was an investor in the relaunched US, but never structure a code-sharing agreement with it because of its close contractual relationship with UA.

AC has some carriers in Star with whom it has a tenuous relationship - SQ is one. SAA is another.

The question is, would AC, UA and perhaps others bolt Star and set up their own alliance? If CO came with UA, perhaps US, would such a group attract interest from other Star or non-Star members?

I was told that if some carrier wanted to expel AC from Star, all AC would need to defeat that was one vote from a charter member, and that one particular charter member is absolutely, solidly behind AC (UA? LH?)

I'm NOT suggesting this is happening, only that I am curious about how versions of this rumor keep circulating. It is still only a rumor.

[Edited 2006-12-13 23:34:26]

[Edited 2006-12-13 23:37:06]

User currently offline777FlyGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14368 times:

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 5):
Please don't post 'rumors' unless you have some sort of source to back up your claims referenced within the post.

Aww, come on. Without rumors, there wouldn't be anything interesting to read on a.net.  Big grin

Agreed it doesn't make much sense for two founding members to leave. However once merger mania dies down and assuming combinations do take place, it will be interesting to see who's left and what alliance they belong to.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14328 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 15):
AC has some carriers in Star with whom it has a tenuous relationship - SQ is one. SAA is another.

Niether of which are founding members. SQ always talks big, but in the grand scheme of the STAR alliance they are a marginal member at best, SAA just joined STAR, neither has much clout in saying who can/can't stay in STAR. The real power in STAR is the founders (AC,UA,LH).


Kris



Word
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2135 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14320 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 15):
AC has some carriers in Star with whom it has a tenuous relationship - SQ is one. SAA is another.

The beefs with SQ have been well-discussed. What's up their bum re SAA?



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14255 times:

When is AC going to start working with US? It seems strange that after playing a part in getting US out of bankruptcy and as members of the same alliance that they are doing absolutely nothing together.

User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14237 times:

There's no chance in H*LL AC and UA leaving Star Alliance. They both invested their money in Alliance. I can't see any of those two leaving.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14151 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 19):
When is AC going to start working with US? It seems strange that after playing a part in getting US out of bankruptcy and as members of the same alliance that they are doing absolutely nothing together.

It was purely to make a quick profit take, and then bolt. Nothing more nothing less. With possible mergers, a game of musical chairs in FF Alliances is entirely possible, but I highly doubt you'll see UA or AC leave Star. I would say DL is more likely to leave SkyTeam than the latter two leave Star.  twocents 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14141 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 18):
The beefs with SQ have been well-discussed. What's up their bum re SAA?

AC has wanted access to the South African market for years, and Canada has proposed a variety of possibilities to South African government, beginning small and growing with the market. For example, letting AC get in via codesharing on LH. However, the Canadian government has reported zero headway, a reflection, one presumes, of SA's long-standing belief that Canada is unimportant and that AC should deliver it traffic at an existing US gateway (European flight timings don't favor connections) with SA enjoying most of the economic benefit.


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14125 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 21):
It was purely to make a quick profit take, and then bolt. Nothing more nothing less. With possible mergers, a game of musical chairs in FF Alliances is entirely possible, but I highly doubt you'll see UA or AC leave Star. I would say DL is more likely to leave SkyTeam than the latter two leave Star.   

It was going to be more, especially in the maintenance area, but that was frustrated by a couple of factors, like US union contracts and the high Canadian dollar which appreciated a further 8 points or so after AC bought into US. And of course, with the strong US share price gain, it became too tempting for ACE to leave that much money on the table.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2135 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14074 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 22):
However, the Canadian government has reported zero headway

Thanks. I wonder if this may one day be addressed under Blue Sky, and if the African reluctance to participate has been an airline or government stance (or both - I dunno if SA is privately owned or not). One presumes that YYZ would be as attractive to SA as JNB or CPT would be to AC.
Now: can this route be flown non-stop with a 777LR or 346?



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
25 ChicagoFlyer : There's no need to bash the original poster. Rumor--so what? It is a lot less implausible than people think. UA clearly will not leave voluntarily, bu
26 Threepoint : I'd be surprised if this were the case, as AC only recently emerged (scarred) from their own bankruptcy period and have certainly focused on the lean
27 AirCanada014 : If I do recall in the AC Horizon clippings I remember in the early 90s or mid 90s AC has the right to fly to South Africa from FRA plus AC has 5th fr
28 Post contains images USAirPlatinum : Airline Industry Make-Your-Own-Rumor Guide I heard that: [ ] United [ ] American [ ] Continental [ ] Pakistan International [ ] Pan Am Railways [ ] Jo
29 UnitedNRT : Your sources have it wrong, United is moving as close as it can to Star Alliance as the synergies involved are massive and are crucial to leveraging o
30 SLCUT2777 : All of them factors I'm sure Bob Milton could see coming, although the gain in the $CAD to the $USD is something that ambushed all trans-49th trade.
31 Post contains images Sabena332 : This is a friggin' hilarious post, I already laughed for 10 minutes and I think I will continue for a few minutes more. Well done! Patrick
32 Cslusarc : Now that's interesting, if not funny.
33 USAirPlatinum : I prefer "John McCain is planning to merge with George W. Bush due to funding from Antonov."
34 DC8FanJet : UA will never leave Star.period. the end.
35 JAL : This is the first time I'm hearing this news!
36 MCOflyer : Same here and I bet they do not leave and its all a sack of sh**. I can bleieve recent merger rumors, but this draws the line. MCOflyer[Edited 2006-1
37 Post contains images ZRHnerd : ahaha, how funny is that
38 Sebring : Only Canada and South Africa don't have a bilateral.
39 SunriseValley : The -200LR would work very well on the route. North bound , assuming -35k winds is a still air distance of about 7800nm. Widebody's charts would sugg
40 Post contains images Steeler83 : Yeah really, or is the purpose of this thread to do nothing more than Perfect, some more spin... That post above about 18 new thread topics, now THAT
41 Atnight : I hear this same rumor all the time, but for some reason, I HAVE YET to find a source to back this up. Could you please share evidence that CO isn't
42 UAL777UK : Two words about these guys leaving Star...Absolute rubbish!
43 Post contains images WILCO737 : This is not even a rumour... this is just wrong... WILCO737
44 MCOflyer : Amen to that WILCO737. MCOflyer
45 Burkhard : Star Alliance is the only working Alliance at all. One world as example does not work. I had a flight London-Miami-Lima, BA the first part,AA the seco
46 TinkerBelle : I' throw the Bullshit flag on this one too. No way in hell UA and AC will leave * Alliance. If that's the case, VS and BA are starting revenue share o
47 Flying-Tiger : It is known that Lufthansa was extremly pissed at some North American carrier(s) when they were in Chapter 11 as they were putting (dumping) a lot of
48 Naritaflyer : What do they gain by leaving the alliance?
49 Post contains images TinkerBelle : That's freakin hilarious man. My ribs hurt from laughing. LOL
50 StarGoldLHR : I heard a rumour that a new alliance partnership is to be created between Far East Air Transport and VLM. "The new partnership will lead to world expa
51 Post contains images SQ452 : I concur. Each time I have a reservation with multiple carriers within star alliance, things go smooth. UA hands me off to SQ or LH no problem, the o
52 LHStarAlliance : I really doubt this , Every Airline profit of being in the biggest Alliance , it would be a loss for both Specially for UA as they have several Code S
53 Jimyvr : That was the initial problem but since LH entered revenue sharing program with UA and AC, it doesn't really matter who is dumping capacity and who is
54 YYZYYT : You win post-of-the-week for that one!
55 Post contains images BMIFlyer : UA will leave Star, thats the truth. Signed, All UA Bashers You Wish....
56 BlueMan : Out of curiosity, what does it cost to join the Star Alliance and what's involved in maintaining that membership?
57 Post contains images MEACEDAR : Amen!!! Me too. Nah...Star Alliance is the home of United and Air Canada. Where would they go? SkyTeam? I don't know.
58 Post contains images SAOAP : In all honesty, I think everyone around here should keep an open mind about at least the possibility of UA/AC leaving Star Alliance. After all, it is
59 Sebring : SAOAP, as a hypothetical it's not totally outrageous and you have made an interesting contribution. If UA were to get CO, the question arises whether
60 Post contains images Icarus75 : This is the more funny post I've read!!!!!!
61 SAOAP : Sebring, it's really too bad that this thread has been turned into a joke. Your points do complement everything I heard around here. I suppose only t
62 Threepoint : For every negative post you read, there are plenty of us musing: "hmmm, what if?" I initially thought, when I read the thread title, 'no way', but yo
63 AirCanada014 : You know whats so amazing about these rumours people hear from employees that it never happens. My dad used to work for Air Canada, I know several peo
64 AirCanada014 : I just talked to one of my dad's friend who is about to head out to LHR tonight and I asked her if she heard any rumours about AC leaving Star Allianc
65 DTWAGENT : I agree up above. It would be a big lost for AC and UA if they dropped out of the Star Alliance. However, if they joined the Skyteam it would be a big
66 Cornish : While rumours on a.net are usually exactly that, and that's exactly how I will treat this one, I would say that the people who are saying "There's no
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