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Local Input At DTW  
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Is anyone going to the conferences where the local public can put their say in the future of DTW. There are going to be 4 conferences.... I'm going to the one from 6-8pm in Romulus...

• Thursday, December 14, 2006, from 2:00 pm - 4:00 pm
Livonia Community Center, 15100 Hubbard, Livonia, Michigan

• Thursday, December 14, 2006, from 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
Metropolitan Hotel, 31500 Wick Road, Romulus, Michigan

• Saturday, December 16, 2006, from 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm
Southgate Public Library, 14680 Dix-Toledo Road, Southgate, Michigan

• Monday, December 18, 2006, from 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
Northwest Activity Center, 18100 Meyers Road, Detroit, Michigan


Hope to see other a.netters there.


LH 442
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNW748i From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

I wish I could be there... This conferences will focus on the airport, I take it? I won't be there in time to attend, but I hope that I can find somebody to take a few notes, write a brief report, or record/webpost it...


Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Why are they having one in Livonia? That is pretty far from DTW I would say.

User currently offlineIflyswa From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2888 times:

It's faster and easier to get to Livonia by way of I-275 than it would be to get to Southgate, despite its greater proximity. I guess Southgate's a straight shot down Eureka Road, but still... Remember though, DTW is Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County airport. It serves all of Wayne county, the entire Detroit Metropolitan area, and the greater part of southeast Michigan. Would it make sense, therefore, to hold all of the conferences on-site at DTW? I'm sure the sites were chosen strategically (Livonia: northwest suburbs, Detroit: City of Detroit and possibly northeast suburbs, Southgate: the Downriver communities, etc), and it seems that they've covered all the bases.

I'd like to make the conference on the 18th. Will anybody else be going?

iflyswa



Opinions expressed by "iflyswa" are not those of Southwest Airlines Officers, Directors, or Employees.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Since the conference tomorrow is in Livonia. I am going to try to attend.

User currently offlineNW748i From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 2):
Why are they having one in Livonia?

Because if DTW goes down people in Livonia will be reeling probably even worse than the folks in Romulus. Further, if you sincerely want peoples' input, you have to make an effort to be accessible by 'meeting them half-way...'



Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

I'll have to see, I'm considering the one on Monday the 18th. Heck, I'm from Toledo too...  Smile

User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting NW748i (Reply 5):
Because if DTW goes down people in Livonia will be reeling probably even worse than the folks in Romulus. Further, if you sincerely want peoples' input, you have to make an effort to be accessible by 'meeting them half-way...'

I was taking the meeting's purpose the wrong way. I was thinking that these meetings were more for noise related issues. Though Livonia is in the departure path for Runway 4R, it is way below the 65 dNL range. That was why I was questioning its holding in Livonia as opposed to surrounding communities of Romulus, Wayne, Taylor, New Boston etc. I am more used to those kinds of meetings - such as one I attended in Ormond Beach Florida for OMN when they wanted to extend the runway there - which was complaints from locals about more noisy planes coming.

I didn't realize it was for asking public input for improvements at DTW.

I will go there and ask for a spotters area.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

I attended the one in Livonia today. Unfortunately I missed the powerpoint at the beginning, but a couple of the people filled me in.

It was put on by a couple of the airport planning and consulting firms working with DTW - JDA and CH2MHill.

They discussed how DTW would need a 5th parallel runway eventually, 60 more gates for the Mac, and 10 more for the North Terminal as well as additional deicing pads.

There weren't a lot of attendees, maybe 20 at the most. A few worked for Wayne County, and a couple others were planners. There weren't a lot of questions asked and not a lot of input from the public since the planning firms were looking for more airside improvements.

For me, I found it very informative since my field is airport planning. However, your average Detroit area citizen who just uses the airport and has no idea how an airport works would be confused I think.

This wasn't a place for people to say - "This Airport needs a Chilis in it", or better luggage facilities etc.

They were looking for ideas where to add a runway, terminals etc.

The fifth runway that was being suggested didn't have any definite location, but was most likely going to be built east of the others - perhaps crossing current Middle Belt Road around where Northline currently is.

Other ideas being talked about was additional terminal facilities - 10 more gates for the North Terminal, and 60 more for the McNamara...

Get this - the 60 would be added on Concourse A built north as one of the suggestions was to close Runway 9L/27R since it is only used 2% of the time.

There was a WCAA Airport Ops guy there who wanted to see some taxiway improvements and some additional deice pads.

Again if you are interested in airport facilities like those mentioned, like I am very interested in - this is great. But if you are going to ask for new restaurants, or requesting better prices in parking garages etc... this is probably not for you.


User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1581 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

Was it brought up meeting of the possibility of Northwest consolidating with another carrier and what that might mean for DTW?


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User currently offlineNW748i From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):
They discussed how DTW would need a 5th parallel runway eventually, 60 more gates for the Mac



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 9):
Was it brought up meeting of the possibility of Northwest consolidating with another carrier and what that might mean for DTW?

I sure hope they did. What would have been even better would be to see a couple AA reps present to tell about how useful they'll find the improvements as they move a significant portion of ops from ORD to DTW in order to use the two as a sort of 'dynamic duo.'



Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 9):
Was it brought up meeting of the possibility of Northwest consolidating with another carrier and what that might mean for DTW?

I asked the question first thing. I actually asked due to AA's history with mergers and what happened to the hubs.

Airport Planning companies do not usually base things on mergers etc. For example, consider the new runway that was opened at STL after AA shrunk the hub there.

Airport Planning companies plan 5, 10, 20 years in advance - for example it takes 10 years from drawing board to full build out of a new runway.

A lot of Airport planning companies do not base their planning on if the hometown carrier is going out of buisness or merging and going to grow bigger. Instead they take passenger and operation trends and build them out in 5, 10, 20 year time to see where they may be through Linear programming etc.


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):
This wasn't a place for people to say - "This Airport needs a Chilis in it", or better luggage facilities etc.

I went to the evening session, and there were three people there. They didn't even bother with a powerpoint since everyone was able to talk individually to the consultants... I found the conference very useful, and it gave residents who live in or around the area input about the future... If they're going to add another runway, it's going to affect local residents... therefore, if those residents have a say... then they can argue why the runway shouldn't go there.. The minute the airport authority says, we're putting a new runway here, that will be the minute everyone says, "hey, why don't we get a say where it goes? or this is incorrect use of eminent domain".

Some of the topics discussed where whether it is feasible to have a APM between the two terminals and where additional cargo facilities should go....

The like of A380 compatability was also discussed, but the planners say there is no reason since UPS and Fedex were the most like users of such an aircraft, and that the investment to the airfield would not payoff.



LH 442
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 12):
The like of A380 compatability was also discussed, but the planners say there is no reason since UPS and Fedex were the most like users of such an aircraft, and that the investment to the airfield would not payoff.

I was talking to a couple of the people about if DTW really is A380 compatable. Yes 22L is 200 ft wide and 12,000 ft long. The Mac International gates could handle it, but not sure if any runway could handle the weight, nor if the taxiways and turn offs are compatable.

Actually the most likely for the A380 at DTW is Lufthansa since LH is adding two daily A330s to FRA. They might eventually find it makes more sense to just bring in an A380.


User currently offlineNW748i From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2658 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
Actually the most likely for the A380 at DTW is Lufthansa since LH is adding two daily A330s to FRA.

Yeah, I brought that up in the NW merger thread. I couldn't believe it. I figure it's for routing non-ORD traffic...

About a year ago some of the local news channels reported on the A380 to satisfy those who thought someone would actually fly one to DTW. Apparently the A380 can be accomodated up until it reaches the gate, none of which are equipped for off-loading an A380.

There's one case (besides an emergency) in which I can see an A380 coming to DTW--the Autoshow (NAIAS). Last time I flew during NAIAS week I noted an LH744 landing right behind my BA777 (it was their *Alliance livery). I mentioned the appearance of the LH744 to the gate agent who very matter-of-factly assured me that a BA744 was going to be replacing the 777 for the remainder of the NAIAS. Hell, if I hear that LH is flying in an A380 I'll fly back to 'the D' just to see it!



Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting NW748i (Reply 14):
About a year ago some of the local news channels reported on the A380 to satisfy those who thought someone would actually fly one to DTW. Apparently the A380 can be accomodated up until it reaches the gate, none of which are equipped for off-loading an A380.

I thought that the international gates at the McNamara could handle it. When I worked at DTW, a Northwest gate agent/operator who was one who I could count on for being reliable said that the dual gates could raise to different levels and accomodate the A380. The width is fine at the gates to handle two A380s parked side by side.

I thought the issues lied in runways and taxiways. 22L is the right width and length, however I am not sure it is built for anything bigger than a fully loaded 744 in terms of pavement structure.

Another problem is, if you look at an overhead view of the taxiways on 4R/22L, they are not ADG-VI taxiways, just ADG-V. An A380 needs ADG-VI. The runway turn off points on 22L are also not going to accomodate an A380. First of all they aren't high speed turnoffs and they require the jet to exit at a 90 degree angle.

Quoting NW748i (Reply 14):
There's one case (besides an emergency) in which I can see an A380 coming to DTW--the Autoshow (NAIAS). Last time I flew during NAIAS week I noted an LH744 landing right behind my BA777 (it was their *Alliance livery). I mentioned the appearance of the LH744 to the gate agent who very matter-of-factly assured me that a BA744 was going to be replacing the 777 for the remainder of the NAIAS. Hell, if I hear that LH is flying in an A380 I'll fly back to 'the D' just to see it!

It is interesting to go to DTW during the autoshow. You get a lot of good corporate aircraft too from around the country and world. I am surprised NW doesn't use an extra 744 to NRT during the autoshow since all of the Japanese automakers are there too.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2240 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):
Get this - the 60 would be added on Concourse A built north as one of the suggestions was to close Runway 9L/27R since it is only used 2% of the time.

This would be a big mistake! The main reason 9R/27L was built a decade ago was because in heavy crosswinds, DTW went from 3 runways to 1. Articles written during the environmental impact process for 9R said the 2% of the days the crosswind runway was used accounted for HALF of all flight delays at DTW.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 15):
I am surprised NW doesn't use an extra 744 to NRT during the autoshow since all of the Japanese automakers are there too.

In 2004, Northwest scheduled an extra DTW-NRT flight for the peak travel days to/from the auto show - it operated as NW5 / NW6. I don't know if NW will be doing the same thing for the 2007 show.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineNW748i From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Did anyone attend the later conferences? If so, would you care to share what was said? Thanks.


Hail! to the victors valiant, Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes, Hail! Hail! to Michigan the leaders and best! Go Blue!
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