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CO: Flights Between IAH And TLV Not Before 2008  
User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

After many rumors latly in TLV, Larry Kellner, in a short visit to Israel this week, made it clear that even though TLV is one of CO's strongest, the airline will not start operating to TLV from IAH before 2008, when it's 1st 787 arrives, as the airline lacks of long haul a/c to open new services.
It was also made clear that the airline will not add flights between TLV and EWR for the same reason.

I would say that after DL great success with ATL-TLV which many doubted before, a nonstop service between IAH and TLV looks very attractive more than ever.
Pity CO can not do that for these reasons...

At any case, I always thought that connecting pax from N. America to TLV via NYC is not that wise.
The traffic should be directed via other more "attractive" hubs than JFK or EWR in order to make NYC's operation from and to TLV more proftible (less interlining), to answer the demend that this route has anyhow and to allow other nonstop daily services from more cities to TLV as the interlining will be move to other destinations.

For thess reasons I can not understand how come at least *3* airlines are missing the great demend and potenial that ORD-TLV or IAD-TLV operations can have.

Mike

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3999 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6798 times:

Of course this assuming that there will be a CO in '08' or beyond. If CO fades into the history books, don't look for it's successor, whoever it may be to start TLV service from IAH anytime in the foreseeable future if ever.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

I understand IAH is a CO hub, but TLV from Houston??? I'm guessing 90% of the pax load will be connecting from somewhere else, mainly California.

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Is CO planning on keeping their B767-200ER's? I thought the last work was that they were going to phase them out with the arrival of the more efficient B787.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):

Well the Israeli consulate in Houston has a block of tickets on CO weekly inthe range of 20-25 seats so maybe we can make it work  Wink

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe, que la vida es breve


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
I understand IAH is a CO hub, but TLV from Houston???

Yeah, there's no ties between Houston and the middle east.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5):
Yeah, there's no ties between Houston and the middle east.

Wrong religion!.....last time I checked don't think many people were transferring in TLV on their way to the oil rich Arab Countries



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6564 times:

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 6):
Wrong religion!.....last time I checked don't think many people were transferring in TLV on their way to the oil rich Arab Countries

A few weeks ago there was an oil discovery off Israel’s shore.
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061010-024623-2403r

Granted it’s not a huge oil reserve, but perhaps the notion that Israel has other oil reserves is not so far fetched. Point being, Israel needs energy, Houston is the energy capital of the world so there is an O&D market. More on Israel’s oil and gas industry here http://www.businessmonitor.com/oilgas/israel.html


User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2069 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Well, we certainly won't see AA in TLV.

User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6457 times:
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Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
After many rumors latly in TLV, Larry Kellner, in a short visit to Israel this week, made it clear that even though TLV is one of CO's strongest, the airline will not start operating to TLV from IAH before 2008, when it's 1st 787 arrives, as the airline lacks of long haul a/c to open new services.
It was also made clear that the airline will not add flights between TLV and EWR for the same reason.

I think another CO flight to TLV will be at the top of the list for the new 777s should CO not get the authority to fly to Shanghai.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

I dont know about AA in TLV.

Many years have passed, not a lot remember.

BTW - Shouldnt court decide on this?

And if AA has to pay to those ex-TWA employees, well then it should!


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 10):
I dont know about AA in TLV.

Many years have passed, not a lot remember.

BTW - Shouldnt court decide on this?

And if AA has to pay to those ex-TWA employees, well then it should!

Well if AA were to ever make the leap back to TLV, I could see ORD-TLV or MIA-TLV. But again there are issues which need to be resolved. Many years might have passed and some folks might not remember, but I am sure there is a statue of limitations surrounding the ex-TW employees, although I am not clear on the details.

Nonetheless, good for CO for developing the US-Israel market. A gateway west of the Mississippi would be beneficial.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Today's edition of the Jerusalem Post has a somewhat different version of this story. According to the newspaper, CO flew 8.8 percent more passengers between EWR and TLV in November 2006 than it did last November. CEO Lawrence Kellner told the Jerusalem Post that CO is exploring ways to grow the Tel Aviv market in the long term. The newspaper quotes Mr. Kellner as saying that "Israel is a great market for us and has been consistently strong in both our business and cabin classes." He also said "We want to grow the New York market but will probably add a Houston flight before New York." He did not specify any target date for starting flights between IAH and TLV. However, Mr. Kellner told the newspaper that CO would probably start a third daily flight between EWR and TLV in 2009 when it takes delivery of a large batch of 787s. According to another passage in the article, the CEO also said Continental "would only add flights [to TLV] when it is ready to do so on a daily basis, dismissing the option of adding one or two flights per week when demand arises." Mr. Kellner told the Jerusalem Post that "We want to fly every day and would rather add a third daily flight using smaller aircraft."

A separate article in the Jerusalem Post quotes Mr. Kellner as saying "There has been a lot of consolidation activity recently but we prefer that Continental remain independent as we feel we are very well-positioned in the market at the moment." According to the newspaper, "Kellner said that while the company's short-term position did not warrant consolidation, the possibility may arise in the future."


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33038 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

Continental isn't going to be flying Houston-Tel Aviv anytime soon. There is absolutely no market for such a route.


a.
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Continental isn't going to be flying Houston-Tel Aviv anytime soon. There is absolutely no market for such a route.

The airline's CEO publicly says that CO probably will add a route between Houston and Tel Aviv before it adds a third daily flight from New York to TLV in 2009. This statement indicates to me that CO believes that there is a viable market for this route, and the airline may add it to its network within the next two years.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33038 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 14):

The airline's CEO publicly says that CO probably will add a route between Houston and Tel Aviv before it adds a third daily flight from New York to TLV in 2009. This statement indicates to me that CO believes that there is a viable market for this route, and the airline may add it to its network within the next two years.

We'll see. Airline officials talk often to gain local support. If an airline official says today that they are going to launch a route in three years, I would take it with a grain of salt. Even more so when you consider that there is virtually no market between Houston and Israel (there is a huge market between Houston and the Middle East, of course, but not Israel, and Tel Aviv has no flights to other Middle Eastern countries outside of Jordan) and that Continental doesn't even fly Houston-Frankfurt or Houston-Madrid yet.

We'll see in three years. I'd put money that it isn't going to happen, ever.



a.
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

I think a CLE-TLV flight is just as, if not more likely.

Seriously, though. there are a lot of Jews on the east side of CLE, probably more than in IAH. But I can't imagine either is high on the priority list, even when the 787s come.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 16):
But I can't imagine either is high on the priority list, even when the 787s come.

Seems a few other city pairs would come to mind other than adding a third daily to TLV. But, then again, I am not in charge. I can wish.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 16):
I think a CLE-TLV flight is just as, if not more likely.

Seriously, though. there are a lot of Jews on the east side of CLE, probably more than in IAH. But I can't imagine either is high on the priority list, even when the 787s come.

I agree CO could fill a CLE-TLV 3 or 4 times per week easy, but CO doesnt seem to want to send a widebody here.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 18):
I agree CO could fill a CLE-TLV 3 or 4 times per week easy, but CO doesnt seem to want to send a widebody here.

LGW and CDG are/will be 757s, let alone a heavy for TLV. Unless it's a diversion, no widebodies for CLE. Sad, but true. At least for near future.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Texas does have a sizeable Jewish population and there are strong traffic flows between Israel and Latin America - which could very easily flow over IAH.

There is a market for more Israel-US service but I would certainly think that CO could deploy all of its 787s on new flights to Asia where there are dozens of great market opportunities - and where the flights are so long that even the best aircraft schedulers will deploy all the orders CO has very quickly.


User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Continental isn't going to be flying Houston-Tel Aviv anytime soon. There is absolutely no market for such a route.

I wouldn't be so sure. In my experience, there is a significant amount of business going on in Central America with Isreali ties. Houston would serve as a great gathering/connecting point for that traffic.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33038 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 21):

I wouldn't be so sure. In my experience, there is a significant amount of business going on in Central America with Isreali ties. Houston would serve as a great gathering/connecting point for that traffic.

They connect easily through MIA and ATL.



a.
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 21):

I wouldn't be so sure. In my experience, there is a significant amount of business going on in Central America with Isreali ties. Houston would serve as a great gathering/connecting point for that traffic.

They connect easily through MIA and ATL.

True enough, no dispute there. However, my point is that CO now carries their Latin America to/from TLV traffic through IAH in many cases (for those cities that don't have service to EWR). CO knows how much of that traffic then connects to EWR to get to TLV. A non-stop from IAH to TLV would likely capture even more traffic.

Time will tell.

[Edited 2006-12-15 20:57:46]


A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

The current CEO at CO seems to think that there is sufficient traffic between IAH and TLV to seriously consider starting nonstop flights between the two cities. Perhaps, there is a diverse mix of passengers that would make this route profitable. Flights between IAH and TLV may attract both Jewish and Christian passengers from Texas, Arizona, Colorado, California, and other neighboring states. As Israel becomes more prosperous, it too sends more tourist to the United States. In addition to tourists, these flights will probably draw many business passengers because both Israel and the large cities in Texas (Houston, Dallas, and Austin) host many research centers and hi-tech businesses. As many of the messages posted above state, IAH may be a convenient transfer point for passengers (especially Sky Team members) travelling between Israel and Latin America.

Two years ago, many people probably thought that nonstop flights between ATL and TLV would be unprofitable. Yet, reports seems to indicate that DL's flights between ATL and TLV are full, popular, and very profitable. In many ways, IAH seems to be the same type of market as ATL, except Houston is much larger.


25 Post contains links and images Lt-AWACS : Sidenote-The Isreali Consulate in Houston has some great working papers out there about Isreali-Texas business links. ONe example for those with too m
26 Post contains images RwSEA : Even for all of the places you mention, ATL, ORD, EWR, and JFK are much more direct routings.
27 IAD380 : I am not sure that I understand what you mean. Do you mean that flights from ATL, ORD, EWR, and JFK are shorter than flights from IAH? Couldn't a 777
28 LAXdude1023 : IAH is poorly located for domestic traffic connections. However, IAH is one of the best gateways to Latin America. IAH (geographically) is in a poor l
29 MAH4546 : Not really. Atlanta-Tel Aviv has been a route crying for non-stop service for a long time. In fact, El Al announced service to Atlanta, on the routin
30 LAXdude1023 : This is very true. What I find Ironic is that the Dallas/Fort Worth area has more people than both the Houston and Atlanta areas, yet it is the most
31 MAH4546 : Well Atlanta is a megahub for Delta, so that right there is why they have so much international service. If you look at their international airlines,
32 Post contains images 102IAHexpress : LOL. The Houston bashers on this forum never cease to amaze me. Forget about the burgeoning oil and gas traffic between IAH and TLV. Forget about the
33 LAXdude1023 : I think the Oil and Gas traffic is not to the Middle East, but not specifically to TLV. According to my co-worker (who lived in TLV for 25 years), mo
34 Thomasphoto60 : When I first read the title of this thread, I was thrown for a loop. Like others, I never considered a TLV route from IAH, I mean the route on the fac
35 Post contains links and images LAXdude1023 : Appearantly about 500k. DFW is clearly bigger, however I do agree with your statement about the Houston being the more "international" of the cities.
36 MAH4546 : Difference here being that Korean Air will probably be flying to Houston next year, and in 2010, Houston will probably still not have non-stops to Te
37 Thomasphoto60 : I was not aware it was that much. I suppose when when there is another huge city close by it can really bring up those numbers. I wonder what the his
38 MAH4546 : The route makes zero sense. There is very little local demand for it, and it provides no special connecting options that will boost the case for the
39 LAXdude1023 : I agree, there is definately a need for an internation expansion at IAH, but TLV should not be next or even close to next. MAD, FRA, and a middle eas
40 RwSEA : As pointed out, Houston is larger than ATL. But it's not the same market. Less O&D to TLV, and not as big of a hub. IAH is a big hub, but ATL is the
41 102IAHexpress : You guys act like IAH TLV service would come at the expense of many long proposed routes. In any event CO CEO seems to think differently from aNet. I
42 Post contains images IAD380 : I don't think that the size of a Jewish community is the most important factor in determining whether flights to TLV will be profitable. For example,
43 Drerx7 : I think that once the 787s come online more focus will be on IAH international expansion, I can see a market from IAH-TLV, because IAH is just as good
44 WorldTraveler : And part of the reason is because AA has very concentrated int'l service to a handful of int'l cities - many of which are partner hubs - while CO and
45 NateDAL : Not just Texas. Houston is 3rd in the US with 85. (LA #2 at 87) Dallas only has 30. Anyway, TLV-IAH would probably work. Mr. Kellner knows more about
46 MAH4546 : No, it is not indicitave, but it helps. Also, Madrid and Barcelona do have large Jewish communities. Boston is not a hub for anybody. Philadelphia is
47 2travel2know : Would a CO B767 IAH-TLV flight make any sense even with a stop somewhere in Europe, maybe GLA or MAN? Even before the advent of the aircraft capable o
48 Dutchjet : I dont see CO launching an IAH-TLV flight either......CO has still not started the long discussed nonstop flights between IAH and FRA and MAD, and tho
49 IAD380 : No. He did not have to say anything at all. In the alternative, he could have said that CO adequately meets current market demand by flying two daily
50 Supa7E7 : Maybe in 1990, TLV-IAH would make sense. Hub traffic from California etc. In 2010, look for special non-stopping airplane flights called "nonstops" to
51 Klwright69 : This would defeat the purpose of a NONSTOP from IAH. People would just elect to go through EWR if it involved a stop. And I doubt CO is looking at se
52 OA412 : Indeed it was! In fact, this was one of the routes DL inherited from them and they flew it for a few years in the early 90's albeit via ORY rather th
53 Klwright69 : I don't necessarily agree. TLV is a star performer for CO and there is less competition than to FRA and MAD. I think these are important points. DL m
54 Post contains images CO767FA : You truly don't know jack and the above posts are speculative on your part. Amateur at best. While I'm not a fan of Houston (weather); you hit the na
55 Klwright69 : You are being a little harsh, but I agree MAH is not always correct. We once got into an argument. I said AA was going to attempt to serve China from
56 Post contains images Dutchjet : Are you sure about that?? By the way, my name is Larry. This is a tricky one........TLV is a star performer since it operates from EWR and until DL r
57 Post contains images CO767FA : Oh...ok...well, Larry....why did you tell the Israeli press that IAH is a possible destination for non-stop IAH TLV service?
58 Post contains images Dutchjet : Thats my opionion on that.
59 LAXdude1023 : I dont think TLV should be a priority for CO at IAH. There is not enough O&D traffic and IAH is in poor location for connection passengers outside of
60 MAH4546 : I did believe it would be from JFK or LAX. Funny thing is, that if it they had applied for LAX-PEK like myself and many others felt would be best, th
61 Post contains images CO767FA : Spoken like a true know-it-all!
62 IAD380 : Could IAH be a good transit spot for passengers travelling between TLV and Latin America? Traffic between Israel and Latin America has grown signific
63 2travel2know : Neither IAH nor any other U.S. Airport is a goodtransit spot for passengers traveling between TLV and Latinamerica (or any other international-to-int
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