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Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4263 times:

Can someone please tell me why BA stopped serving Newquay and Plymouth from Gatwick, and handed over to Air Southwest?

Surely by keeping the route with BA, it would allow for better connections at Gatwick?

Does anyone know how many passengers which use the service actually connect at Gatwick and how many finish their destination at Gatwick?

Surely if people book a flight from NQY or PLY on the BA website, they can book to almost any destination served from Gatwick?

What is it like booking an Air Southwest flight to Gatwick and connecting onto another airline? Will the connecting airline book the Air Southwest flight for you as well?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpeedbirdegjj From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Can someone please tell me why BA stopped serving Newquay and Plymouth from Gatwick, and handed over to Air Southwest?

It was stopped in the midst of the Brymon BRAL merger that made Citiexpress a few years back. This move effectively killed off the BA presence in the southwest which stemmed back to the Brymon days. Many of the pilots crew and management, and indeed the first 2/3 Dash 8's were ex BA/Brymon.

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Surely if people book a flight from NQY or PLY on the BA website, they can book to almost any destination served from Gatwick?

What is it like booking an Air Southwest flight to Gatwick and connecting onto another airline? Will the connecting airline book the Air Southwest flight for you as well?

No Air Southwest operate as a point to point carrier and as such have no interline agreements with other carriers. Having said that i'm sure than plenty of people do use the service for onward connections.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2488 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

Quoting Speedbirdegjj (Reply 1):
It was stopped in the midst of the Brymon BRAL merger that made Citiexpress a few years back. This move effectively killed off the BA presence in the southwest which stemmed back to the Brymon days. Many of the pilots crew and management, and indeed the first 2/3 Dash 8's were ex BA/Brymon.

Those service were once operated out of LHR. Those days BA had flights to ABZ, BFS, EDI, GLA, MAN, NCL, JER, BRS, NQY and PLY out of LHR. Most of domestic flights were transferred to LGW and then stopped all the way.

BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid Sad



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineSpeedbirdEGJJ From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid

Indeed we do, but its surely no coincidence that we're also the most profitable!... Fact of the matter is there's no longer any money to be made in the UK regions for a full service carrier. The days of flying routes for the status are long gone.

For me the biggest sign of the shift in trends will be BHX come next spring, the first A319 base will no longer have any BA presence at all  eek 


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid

That doesn't mean to say that the domestic presence will worsen out of LHR, as BA Connect do not operate out of here.

Once the 3rd runway is built, the domestic market will hopefully increase!


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2488 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 4):
That doesn't mean to say that the domestic presence will worsen out of LHR, as BA Connect do not operate out of here.



Quoting SpeedbirdEGJJ (Reply 3):
Indeed we do, but its surely no coincidence that we're also the most profitable!... Fact of the matter is there's no longer any money to be made in the UK regions for a full service carrier. The days of flying routes for the status are long gone.

For me the biggest sign of the shift in trends will be BHX come next spring, the first A319 base will no longer have any BA presence at all

What you say is true but I am sure BA would have made the regions work with a fleet of 737s offering low cost flights, plus a business product for the businessmen. An ER4, can not do that.

I think this is a shortsighted strategy. BA is getting too carefull with its regional network, its asian and south anerican one.



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User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Quoting Speedbirdegjj (Reply 1):
No Air Southwest operate as a point to point carrier and as such have no interline agreements with other carriers. Having said that i'm sure than plenty of people do use the service for onward connections.

 checkmark 


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4001 times:

I think if BA had the slots at Heathrow, flights to Carlisle, Belfast, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Inverness, Leeds, Liverpool, Durham and Sheffield could easily work.

Thats 10 destinations however, which would need about 60 (3 or 4 flights rotating each way) extra slots at Heathrow to make the routes viable for both business passengers and connecting passengers.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR


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User currently offlineZBA320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 7):
Carlisle,

Does Carlisle even have some form of terminal? I thought it was only used by GA and the Titan Mail 737 or has that long since ceased?

It's a shame British Airways has cut back in the UK. I suppose the Slots at Heathrow can be used for many other services.

[Edited 2006-12-15 23:26:29]


An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

I once flew on the Route from LGW to PLY and it was full both ways!! Also when i checked in at PLY, there were 2 couples who were going onto JFK and had to transfer to LHR to get to them. It is a shame that BA have lost there domestic market and all these LLC are now grabbing all the routes now. If only the situation at LHR could be dramatically improved and then BA operate more domestic flights now then these route could come back.

Perhaps if BA could somehow buy out alot of airlines from there heathrow slots and then leave there operations at LGW and then operate all there services to/ from LHR we might see some good connections from there

 scratchchin   old 
Imagine an airport for just one airline!


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR

Thats why I said, if Heathrow had more slots available. This way, they woudl be able to operate more domestic routes + more B747 style routes!


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24913 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 9):
Does Carlisle even have some form of terminal? I thought it was only used by GA and the Titan Mail 737 or has that long since ceased?

No mail flights any more.
Has a terminal with 3 check in desks, a bar and 6 seats  Silly



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 12):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR

Thats why I said, if Heathrow had more slots available. This way, they woudl be able to operate more domestic routes + more B747 style routes!

Would be nice if it worked like that but unfortuantely I imagine all new slots would go for long haul routes

For example, when the 3rd (short) runway opens at LHR I would imagine short haul flights on the existing runways will get moved onto the new runway and the spare slots on the existing runways used for long haul flights

Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!! Seriously though if BA cant make LHR-Belfast work, how could they make LHR-INV, CAX or LBA work? If anyone adds new domstic destinations from LHR it will be bmi. Indeed there has been a rumour of JER-LHR on pprune but I'm not so sure on that one, as it would involve a nightstopping aircraft at JER and therefore using a valuable peak time slot of LHR. Maybe as a midday flight like INV though



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User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

BA Connect is being sold? What did I miss?


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 15):
BA Connect is being sold? What did I miss?

Subject to successful due diligence flybe. (formerly British European and, before that, Jersey European) will buy BA Connect from BA at the end of next March. Not included is the BA Connect fleet of RJ100s. This will remain with BA. It will be based at EDI to serve on routes out of LCY (EDI being to only BA domestic destrination from LCY and there being too small a ramp to base the RJ100 fleet at LCY).


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):

BA will also recieve a 20% shareholding in flybe as part of the deal, although this is said to be temporary until flybe is publicly offered in 2008


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3631 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!!

That doesn't make sense. It would be just the same as if BA operated new flights to some other part of the world from London. The whole point is that Heathrow is in need of new regional routes. So of course they are going to be out of London....where else?!?!


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!!

That doesn't make sense. It would be just the same as if BA operated new flights to some other part of the world from London.

BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions, including flights into LHR. If they cant make BFS work from LHR I doubt they could make or would even attempt make anywhere else new in the UK work from LHR

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
The whole point is that Heathrow is in need of new regional routes

Needs - Yes
Do you always get what you need - sadly no

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
So of course they are going to be out of London....where else?!?!

Who's disputing that  Confused



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User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):
BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions

Don't care is a bit strong and harsh. They do not serve them because they are not profitable, if they were BA would serve them. They do care about them and I know they would love to serve them if they could turen a profit on them, but they cannot, which leaves them in a bit of a hole when it comes to UK regional


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3562 times:
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Quoting BA787 (Reply 20):
BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions

Don't care is a bit strong and harsh. They do not serve them because they are not profitable, if they were BA would serve them

Or better still...they have worked out that there are certain routes that are profitable for them to operate, but they can't be bothered operating them as it's deemed to be not as profitable as running them out of LHR/LGW.

Hence, they have shot themselves in the foot and more or less cemented the idea that the only non-London route for the short to medium term is going to be MAN-JFK i.e. a route almost completely reliant upon no connections. Had they had a coherent 2nd hub strategy a decade ago i.e. not concentrating on 2 London hubs, they could have established a network of services that could have fed a limted long-haul network at any of their primary stations away from London.


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3517 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):
If they cant make BFS work from LHR I doubt they could make or would even attempt make anywhere else new in the UK work from LHR

The only reason they wouldn't be able to make BFS work, is because bmi already operate 8 flights a day to BHD.

But no one currently flies to Carlisle, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Liverpool, Sheffield from Heathrow.

If Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can work from Gatwick, Im sure they would be able to work from Heathrow, if they transferred the flights over!


User currently offlineZBA320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 13):
Has a terminal with 3 check in desks, a bar and 6 seats

Sounds like a typical Ryanair Terminal to me!! Big grin



An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 22):
If Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can work from Gatwick, Im sure they would be able to work from Heathrow, if they transferred the flights over!

Leave it out, we lose out enough to that airport up the M23/ M25 already!

As has been said slots at LHR are hardly easy to come by and BA would rather use their LHR slots on more lucrative services than IOM etc

[Edited 2006-12-17 22:12:58]

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3479 times:
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Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 23):
BA would rather use their LHR slots on more lucrative services than IOM

I would suggest the idea that when BA acquired Manx, the biggest prize for them was the slots that Manx held at LHR. It therefore allowed them to use those slots for more lucrative LHR services and move the IOM service over to LGW.


25 8herveg : I realise that in the current situation. But what I originally meant (hyperthetically!!) was if Heathrow had hundreds of slots available for BOTH lon
26 Post contains images Planesarecool : It's going to be a very long time before Heathrow has 'hundreds' of slots available, hopefully by which time we'll have a decent enough rail system t
27 Vfw614 : If BA are able to fill their longhaul flights from LHR locally and cannot add any additional long-haul capacity at LHR, they would be stupid to look f
28 Humberside : I dont see the same situation at EDI or GLA so Im not so sure on your reasoning on that one Would they work - yes Are they going to do it - No (for t
29 8herveg : GLA and EDI are a much larger market than BFS or BHD hence more flights to London.
30 Humberside : I dont think Belfast-LON is that much smaller when you take into account that the train is an alternative between Edinburgh/Glasgow and London
31 8herveg : I think if demand was as high as BA's 5 primary UK routes ex. Heathrow (GLA, EDI, ABZ, MAN, NCL), then BA would fly it. Obviously 8 flights a day from
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