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Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?  
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5113 times:

The 77W seems to have quite a lot of success. I wondered if any USairline is interested by acquiring them at short or mid term!

For example, UA hasn't replaced their 747-200's with an aircraft of similar capacity and I'm amazed they haven't chosen the 77W yet(perhaps because they were chap 11?).

Anyways, what are the chances to see a US based carrier order the 77W?

thanks

BM


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5075 times:

Cant see it. It would slot in nicely at CO, and I suspect if it wasnt GE90-powered it would have found a home at AA and UA already (financial stresses notwithstanding). DL i dont think will, although they have GE90-powered 777NG bird on order.

I think its down to the US's consumer and their love of frequencies.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3742 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5005 times:
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I'm not sure American would be interested in it because they don't need an aircraft with such a large capacity, the CASM may be slightly lower but they (AA) would have a difficult time filling all of them out so the load factor wouldn't be that high. The only route I see it would be profitable for them is JFK-LHR.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure American would be interested in it because they don't need an aircraft with such a large capacity, the CASM may be slightly lower but they (AA) would have a difficult time filling all of them out so the load factor wouldn't be that high. The only route I see it would be profitable for them is JFK-LHR.

I think they would fill it year round SJO-NRT, and also LAX-NRT. Not many of the LHR runs justify anything bigger but LGW-DFW might.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I think they would fill it year round SJO-NRT

AA doesn't fly from Costa Rica to Japan  Wink . And their SJC-NRT has also been dropped last I heard.

Anyway, as far as 77Ws for US carriers go, IMHO, that will happen one day, but not so soon. CO I doubt, they are focused on 757/767/787-sized planes, AA is too conservative to go beyond the 772, same for DL and US is too small to begin with. I could primarily see them at UA once they have some more money on the safe side, and very long term, perhaps at NW once they start converting their 744s to 744Fs as 742F replacements.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
And their SJC-NRT has also been dropped last I heard.

They dropped it about 2 montsh ago. Jacobin777 went to see the last AA MASSIVE (777) take of from SJC to NRT.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4792 times:
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Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
For example, UA hasn't replaced their 747-200's with an aircraft of similar capacity and I'm amazed they haven't chosen the 77W yet(perhaps because they were chap 11?).

UA replaced their 742s with 744s.

UA may take the 77W, however their new contracts bring 744 crew costs down to 772 levels and the leases have been re-negotiated, as well, so the 744s are somewhat of a "bargain" for UA right now, and the high loads helps the revenue side of the equation.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

My money would be on NW. They want to replace their 742s and I'm not convinced they'd go for Airbus.

User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Cant see it. It would slot in nicely at CO, and I suspect if it wasnt GE90-powered it would have found a home at AA and UA already (financial stresses notwithstanding). DL i dont think will, although they have GE90-powered 777NG bird on order.

I think its down to the US's consumer and their love of frequencies.

That's pretty well said.

I do believe that CO could successfully replace the twice daily 772s from EWR to TLV with 773ERs. However, I think that CO management is afraid of being "stuck" with aircraft that are too large for any other current market (in the event that TLV traffic drops off). If some other markets grow to that support level, then maybe CO will order a small number of 773s.

[Edited 2006-12-15 18:11:51]


A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22741 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

There are certainly routes UA flies where the 77W would be appropriate. ORD-HKG, which has been making a fuel stop at ANC quite a lot of late, comes to mind. The problem is the engines, in that the lack of commonality with the 772 fleet makes it much less financially attractive to have a small subfleet of 77Ws, and there really are not that many routes on which UA could use them. In terms of replacement of 744s, while UA does have an older 744 fleet than, say, NW, the birds still have plenty of life left in them, and has been rightly pointed out above, costs of 744 operation are very attractive because of the labor situation.

In terms of NW, the 744 fleet is quite young, so there's no need to think about replacing those, and I think as the 787s arrive we'll see their Asia services go through much of the same transition that Europe already has, from capacity to frequency. The 77W is certainly not too big for NW given past history, but they seem to be moving away from the huge aircraft as smaller birds with acceptable ranges become available.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
My money would be on NW. They want to replace their 742s and I'm not convinced they'd go for Airbus.

I thought NW retired their 742s.  confused 

The 77W would be an ideal replacement for older 744s, yes those first (1989 rollout) 744s must be feeling their age...



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

NW and UA would be my bets; to replace some of their 744's on underperforming routes and grow a few ones currently using 772's (in the case of UA).

IMHO
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4408 times:
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Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
I thought NW retired their 742s.  Confused

They still have a few of them lurking about. I believe they mostly serve HNL, but I'm not an NW patron so...  Smile


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22741 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
They still have a few of them lurking about. I believe they mostly serve HNL, but I'm not an NW patron so...

742s still fly NW 75/76 (NRT-SPN-NRT) as well as NW 73/74 (NRT-GUM-NRT)



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8291 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4347 times:
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It is only a matter of time USA airlines replace buy 773ER's. AA & DL may buy it for size and newer long routes, India for example. Some may follow the example from Asia and buy expand their fleets as Cathay & Singapore have done or as 744 replacements as ANA & JAL did. Air France has great success with 773ER. British Airways will likely buy it for fleet expansion too. Given all the USA 777 operators, the new second generation 777's will have huge use from them.

User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
In terms of NW, the 744 fleet is quite young, so there's no need to think about replacing those

NW was the first 747-400 operator in February 1989, so some of them aren't that young...almost 18 years. Of course, for NW that's barely out of infancy!

Photos of the first 747-400 delivered. It's old enough that it's already had 3 liveries.


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Photo © Bruce Highland
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Photo © Miguel Snoep



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Photo © Stuart Lawson



User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22741 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
NW was the first 747-400 operator in February 1989, so some of them aren't that young...almost 18 years.

Oh, certainly not, but they also have 744s that were delivered in 2002.

What I should have said (which is different from what I did say) is that they have some very young 744s, not that the fleet as a whole is young-- though as you point out, by their standards, it has not yet left infancy.

[Edited 2006-12-15 20:39:28]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

It might not be immediate for USA carriers, but the 773ER could be used for India and China expansion fairly easily since US based carriers are quite anxious to get in at the ground level with those two emerging economic markets, and the 773ER fits that bill. The 772LR will be increasingly used for the longest distance destinations to Australia and South Africa in particular, and the 772ER will likely fit in well with South American destinations in Brazil, Chile and Argentina. The 777 air frame is the higher passenger capacity, where as the 787 will eventually render the 767s obsolete.
I think there will likely be a third generation 777 in a few years and have a lot of 787 technology built into it as the 764ER did just that with many 777 features built in. I do see U.S. carriers (UA & NW) eventually dropping the 744s and any older 747 models in a short time.



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