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Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary  
User currently offlineYYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 147 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Today's Calgary Sun (Saturday Dec. 16th) reports from the Mayor, (as he was schmoozing BA's CEO) that the city is on the cusp of attracting other major airlines. The city is working "with one or two other carriers on the other side of the world" interested in flying direct to YYC. He did not disclose any other information, other than "its in the works", but "might take awhile".

I wonder if this is a result of "Blue Skies", or people need an option to avoid YYZ, YVR, YUL. I find YYC to be a very user friendly airport, and not astronomically huge.

I stand firm in my belief that West Jet is in a terrific position to be a feeder for many international carriers, provided their new reservation system will support this kind of transaction.

787's might be a perfect fit for YYC from all over the map.

I speculate an Asian carrier and another European one.

Sorry I cannot provide a link, as I'm reading it in the paper.


Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777FlyGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Any truth to the rumored BA/WS linkup? YYC is a great city and has a very nice modern and efficient airport. I always look forward to my visits there.

User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

I could see KL and LH flying to YYC. I think that both airlines flew there in the past. If AF starts flying to western Canada, I assume that they would choose YVR over YYC. AC probably would be the first airline to start scheduled flights to other European destinations, if the demand exists.

From Asia, I think that AC would be the first airline to start scheduled flights to YYC. In my opinion, KE or CX would be the first foreign airlines to fly from their respective hubs to YYC. However, I don't think scheduled flights between YYC and Asia will start anytime soon.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4102 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Some of my sources at DL indicate that one of the four daily flights to SLC will be upgraded to a 738 mainline during 2007 from the CRJ OO service at the present. It will be nice to see DL mainline at YYC increase from the single ATL flight they currently get.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offline777FlyGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
could see KL and LH flying to YYC.

IIRC, KL flew to YYC in the 80's or early 90's with DC10's. LH with the Star Alliance connection would make a good fit.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4629 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
I could see KL and LH flying to YYC.

I don't think it would be LH. LH revenue shares with AC on the AC flights to Germany.

As far as Asia is concerned I think if (and that's a big if) it would be AC or ANA. But I'm no expert.

Kris



Word
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Quoting YYCowboy (Thread starter):
787's might be a perfect fit for YYC from all over the map.

That seems to be a great hope for many smaller cities, but it depends on the number of passengers willing to pay a premium for a non-stop. There are probably not too many destinations from YYC that can keep a 787 filled. Also frequencies would be limited and convenient scheduling is the most important factor in selecting a flight.

Don't get me wrong, I have been to Calgary and it is a nice town and has a good airport. Unfortunately, airlines make more money by using 737s and CRJs more frequently to hubs unless there is strong demand with passengers willing to pay a premium for a specific non-hub point-to-point.


User currently offlineIlikeYYC From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 3):
It will be nice to see DL mainline at YYC increase from the single ATL flight they currently get.

That was just for the summer, it no longer operates.

Great to see that more airlines are interested in YYC. It is amazing to see the changes between now and when I first flew in there in 1997.



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4819 times:

Rumour has it KE will fly into YYC once the new Canada/Korea Bi-Lateral agreement is negotiated. I believe KLM is looking at YYC for 2088/2009.
Cant see Air France..YYC Airport Authority has Air France on there wish list?



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1849 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
AF starts flying to western Canada, I assume that they would choose YVR over YYC



Quoting DYK (Reply 8):
Cant see Air France..YYC Airport Authority has Air France on there wish list?

At the moment, the bilateral agreement between France & Canada allows scheduled flights only to YUL and YYZ. Nothing else unfortunately


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 9):
At the moment, the bilateral agreement between France & Canada allows scheduled flights only to YUL and YYZ. Nothing else unfortunately

Thank you for the information. I had assumed that the bilateral treaty allowed flights between CDG and a third (western) Canadian city, but neither AC nor AF exercised that right. I guess I was mistaken.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point? Or was that QX?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineEdmonchuck From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Both served YYC at one point...

User currently offlineEdmonchuck From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 5):


I don't think it would be LH. LH revenue shares with AC on the AC flights to Germany.

Correct. As we found out in our FRA pursuits, it will be AC to Germany. LH doesn't have the equipment for more Canadian runs. We wrote LH last year, and they still mentioned aircraft scheduling issues and equipment problems. To LH, Canada is a small, small, small, small market.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 12):
Both served YYC at one point...

Thanks, I just didn't remember because it was so long ago. I remember AC doing the SEA-YYC route with a DH8, that was a long time ago too!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4629 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point?

Did they pull out? I guess I haven't seen them around lately, just QX.

Kris



Word
User currently offlineIlikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point? Or was that QX?

AS still serves YYC- once daily from SEA (flight669) and once daily from LAX (flight 699) And QX still serves YYC from SEA.



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

Is the DL YYC-ATL route going to be continued in 2007? And what about YYC-DTW on NW? I don't think those are going to be operated in 2007. I read a couple of months back that YYC-IAD was to commence in May 2007, but have not seen anything since.

As for all the "major stuff." I think every airport in the world is having talks with every airline in the world. So a lot of airlines indicate interest in services but when the reality hits (markets, equipment availability, bilaterals etc etc) until there is something solid, rumours are rumours.

Unfortunately, Melbourne will have no European carriers serving Tullamarine Airport when Austrian ends its Australian links soon. Melbourne is desperately trying to replace the lost capacity (British gone earlier this year as well.) Melbourne Airport is in talks with many airlines "indicating interest."


User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7591 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis. What do you guys think?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineYYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis. What do you guys think?

Hard to say Eddie. From a tourist standpoint, not likely, Air Canada and Air Transat have that covered. But from a buisness, ie oilpatch standpoint, maybe. Canadians just aren't to familliar with Mexican carriers, it would take quite a sales pitch.



Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 5):
As far as Asia is concerned I think if (and that's a big if) it would be AC or ANA.

The ex-Canadi>n days used to have one-way YYC-NRT. Chances would be AC because ANA rather flies to "healthy-yield, high profit" destinations.

Quoting DYK (Reply 8):
I believe KLM is looking at YYC for 2088/2009.
Cant see Air France.

Since the merger, it's pretty much either one will fly and the one doesn't fly will be back away from it.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis.

According to a forum I saw few weeks ago (can't remember), shortage of ground handling staff is the primary reason concerned by MX. The ground handling company who handles BA even had embarassing moment when no one show up at the career fair to handle BA flight.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Literally every airport authority puts out press releases that mention "major airlines" eyeing their respective city.

We have seen this from Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and god knows who. Not to say that Calgary is not booming, but take this with a grain of salt.


User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

I say take this with a bit more than a grain of salt.
Calgary is booming like mad right now. Business couldn't be better with the lowest office vacancy on the planet. This time around it will be the business traveller benefitting with the supported growth out of the airport.

Aeromexico is now back for winter Charters at YYC since the old.. what.. 1994 days, I thought DL had modified its schedule for year round flight from YYC-ATL. There was an news release shortly after DL's return making adjustments for the winter season with YYC being mentioned.

AS is always here now, their Salmon Thirty Salmon recently making a visit shocking many motorists because they never seen a salmon fly before. So have I!

For international sectors, I believe it will be AC first who will make that big jump for the asian market next year when the T7's come in.
Asiana already does cargo and it may bring on the mainline from my predictions. I would also see ANA or Cathay making a move to cowtown.

For European, KLM I think will come but it will be another year or two.
Air France as mentioned won't be coming here anytime soon. To be honest I dont know which of the Euro carriers will fly here, maybe Excel, TUI, or SAS.

Calgary is very much a domestic airport despite the news of BA and this, so while these happen, the domestic network will surge even more.
I hope cargo can pick up a bit more too.

Otherwise, its pretty good news out of the airport and plane spotters will be more satisfied as well as the travellers.



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineJayce From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting YYCowboy (Thread starter):
wonder if this is a result of "Blue Skies", or people need an option to avoid YYZ, YVR, YUL. I find YYC to be a very user friendly airport, and not astronomically huge.

I don't see the need to avoid YVR. As the airport was built with the connecting traveller in mind, it has always been quite user-friendly.

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 4):
IIRC, KL flew to YYC in the 80's or early 90's with DC10's.

They also had the 747-300s towards the end. I believe those operated both as AMS-YYC-YVR-YYC-AMS and AMS-YYC-AMS. I used to fly that route almost every summer when I was a kid and I remember the departures screen at AMS used to read "Calgary/Banff", so I'm pretty sure those were geared towards tourists.



"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
User currently offlineEdmonchuck From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Quoting Jayce (Reply 23):
I don't see the need to avoid YVR. As the airport was built with the connecting traveller in mind, it has always been quite user-friendly.

I agree. There is absolutely NO reason to avoid CYVR. None. Nada. Zip. Anyone who thinks that there is no more capacity at YVR does not know the capacity of that airport, nor its preferred choice for Asian flights. I know that both Alberta airports are trying to get an Asian flight (which is one of the reasons this thread started), but YVR will continue to be the main gateway to Asia from Canada. Plus, as much as the Calgarians here will try to crucify me, there is much much much more scenery and amenities and culture in Vancouver - you know, those things that attract tourists. Oh, and that ocean thing helps... 

CYYC may get an Asian flight...might. Yes it has the slots, but with the relaxing of restrictions on 08L/26R for departures combined with the expansion of the D gates at YVR, expect airlines to continue to go there and not "avoid" it per se.

I know there was a media release from Cathay a few weeks back decrying airport rents and that issue preventing more flights to places like Calgary, but don't let that fool you. Cathay is complaining more about YYZ's astronomical prices than a lack of Calgary access.

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
I say take this with a bit more than a grain of salt.
Calgary is booming like mad right now. Business couldn't be better with the lowest office vacancy on the planet.

I always love this quote, like office vacancy rates directly correlate to business travel. All that means is that the current space is occupied. It means that someone is paying for the physical space, but it does not indicate bums in seats. I know of a lot of space that is rented due to a long term lease that has no one in it, and others that is kept for floor moves. With the advent of the "Bow", watch this stat fall out of the sky. Also, there are a few re-orgs in the works that will shuffle and consolidate staff, and additional mergers/acquisitions that will change this stat even more (i.e. the Royal Dutch Shell plans are more real than you think). Booms are cyclical, and office vacancy is no different. Funny, with these rates that Penny Lane and other proposals aren't being built.

I am intimately familiar with the travel policies of the major companies in Alberta, and they are still cutting back on a lot of travel. At the last ASUG meeting in Calgary, travel cutbacks were a topic of watercooler conversation. Our company is actually going through a major re-org specifically TO CUT BACK ON TRAVEL between YVR, YEG, YYZ and YUL by relocating entire departments by Director locale, mirroring our peers. We, like many others, are relying more and more on NetMeeting and other software solutions, as well as teleconferencing. We only travel when we absolutely need to.

Now, I am not saying that Calgary traffic won't grow, it will. There are tourist options and there will always be business travel. Calgary is still growing. Calgary will do well and may get Asian charters more frequently. But to think that office vacancy and/or an avoidance of Vancouver or Toronto is a reason is foolhardy.

[Edited 2006-12-19 20:59:17]

25 Viscount724 : When KL commenced service to western Canada in the 1980s they used DC-10s AMS-YYC-YVR. That didn't last very long and YVR and YYC became stand-alone
26 Yyz717 : There are only 3 EU countries that can arguably support sked service to Calgary: the UK, Germany and the Netherland: 1. The UK is covered (AC/BA); 2.
27 Threepoint : Calgary was booming like mad until about six months ago. While still growing, the rate of expansion has certainly begun to taper. Yes, they will. Fro
28 FLYYUL : Really.. when is the last time we have read an ADM press release on this forum?
29 Threepoint : I think you'll see that Yyz717 posted this remark, not me.
30 Edmonchuck : EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY!
31 Edmonchuck : I'm with you on this one...I haven't seen one in awhile.
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