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US May Increase Offer For DL..news  
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7072 times:

US may increase it's offer IF Delta can prove the stated value of $10-12B (down from an earlier $12B - $14B), which is expected in the Restructuring Plan due for public release on Tuesday.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...e=blq%2Fyhoo&dist=yhoo&siteid=yhoo

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSAirPlatinum From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7065 times:

Doug's not going to let this go without taking his best shot first. It's not a surprise -- the Airtran/Midwest and United/Continental moves are putting more pressure on US to drive things forward.


"Hey guys, Delta is OUR Delta right now." -- Unpaid Creditors
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6985 times:
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Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 1):
It's not a surprise -- the Airtran/Midwest and United/Continental moves are putting more pressure on US to drive things forward

That's the fallacy - the UA/CO deal won't go anywhere if there is no US-DL deal. Dougie created this upon himself when he started pursuing DL - this business is a "Whose is Bigger" business dating all the way back to Juan Trippe and Howard Hughes. Does he really think that Arpey, Tilton, Kellner, and Steenland would stand by and do nothing? The biggest irony of it all is that in an effort to satisfy his ego and become the BIGGEST, he would in effect be putting the "New Delta" back to #3 and in effect, have a network nowhere near as powerful as the other two.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

I think we're projecting the childish tendencies of this board onto a mature executive.

Who says he wants to be the biggest or even cares about that?

N


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
Who says he wants to be the biggest or even cares about that?

Well size does matter.

Anyway, as the price that US will pay for Delta increases, the more dangerous all of this becomes......there is just so much that the proposed combined airline can handle financially. In any case, this is going to get more interesting before it hopefully (probably) all goes away.

US has one thing in its favor when it pitches its proposal to the creditors, the article states that the US proposal puts more cash into the creditor's pockets......creditors sometimes (I said sometimes, there are no rules here) are attracted to whatever deal puts the most money in their pocket and have little interest in the longer term advantages of taking an equity interest in the reorganized corporation.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6850 times:
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Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
Who says he wants to be the biggest or even cares about that?

Why don't you read the investor presentations and the various comments by US officials in support of the merger? While being #1 is not the only goal, it has been used time and time again as a 'benefit' of the deal. In any case, the potential triggering of subsequent mergers amongst UA, CO, AA, NW cannot be discounted and when they do happen, the "New Delta" will be at a strategic disadvantage due to continued holes in the overall network structure.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
I think we're projecting the childish tendencies of this board onto a mature executive.

And if you think my comment was 'childish', you haven't been paying too much attention to the junk that has been spewed forth on this board and others for a while now... sarcastic 


User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6691 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
That's the fallacy - the UA/CO deal won't go anywhere if there is no US-DL deal. Dougie created this upon himself when he started pursuing DL - this business is a "Whose is Bigger" business dating all the way back to Juan Trippe and Howard Hughes. Does he really think that Arpey, Tilton, Kellner, and Steenland would stand by and do nothing? The biggest irony of it all is that in an effort to satisfy his ego and become the BIGGEST, he would in effect be putting the "New Delta" back to #3 and in effect, have a network nowhere near as powerful as the other two.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6636 times:

No the fallacy was getting the attention of Congress and the DOJ. Whats on DL side is if the plan is approved the creditors will get SOMETHING a whole lot faster than going US route which will be tied up in hearings on capital hill and court. If DL plays this right they can set themselves up as the sure thing vs US plan.

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 7):
I love how Parker uses that word, synergies. You mean to say, fuck Delta people out of all they've worked for?

Exactly, couldn't have said it better.

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 1):
Doug's not going to let this go without taking his best shot first. It's not a surprise -- the Airtran/Midwest and United/Continental moves are putting more pressure on US to drive things forward.

If nothing is able to happen on this deal until mid '07 and if DL's strategy of emerging from BK late spring/summer could DL throw this whole thing out the door at that time and continue unabbated?



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
The biggest irony of it all is that in an effort to satisfy his ego and become the BIGGEST, he would in effect be putting the "New Delta" back to #3 and in effect, have a network nowhere near as powerful as the other two.

To some extent that will happen no matter who US merges with.

US/CO - still weak to Asia
US/NW - still weak to Central/South America
US/UA - still weak to Central/South America
US/AA - still weak to Asia
US/DL - still weak to Asia

No matter who US merges with, there is going to be weakness in their global network. This is largely because US brings little to anyones international route structure except for a little bit of Europe and the Caribbean/Mexican resorts.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
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Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
To some extent that will happen no matter who US merges with.

US/CO - still weak to Asia
US/NW - still weak to Central/South America
US/UA - still weak to Central/South America
US/AA - still weak to Asia
US/DL - still weak to Asia

Actually, UA probably is the best match (though UA doesn't have the CH.11 advantage as NW or DL now where Parker could reject more leases, etc.) if he truly wants to be a global player. Even though UA is not that strong to South America, at least it already has the rights (and some presence) to the two most lucrative (and bilaterally-restrictive) markets in deep South America - Brazil and Argentina. The rest of Central/South America, the combined entity can further build later on. Having a turnkey operation like UA's Asia/Pacific however is key as it would take years to build up a presence and following in that region. And since Tilton and Parker are both so hellbent on playing the merger game, maybe they should be talking to each other.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
Actually, UA probably is the best match (though UA doesn't have the CH.11 advantage as NW or DL now where Parker could reject more leases, etc.) if he truly wants to be a global player.

But therein lies the problem with UA. Not only do you get weak South American coverage, but you don't have the ability to dump leases like you do with DL/NW. Not to mention that UA was not as aggressive with cost-cutting in bankruptcy. This leaves UA with slightly higher costs that won't mesh well with the Parker's vision of a global "Costco".

When you look at all the legacy network carriers, it's not too hard to see why Parker chose DL (despite all the overlap).

CO/AA/UA aren't in BK and still leave some network gaps.
NW is in BK, but has tough unions, plus network gaps.
DL is in BK and has minimal unionization, but still network gaps.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
That's the fallacy - the UA/CO deal won't go anywhere if there is no US-DL deal. Dougie created this upon himself when he started pursuing DL - this business is a "Whose is Bigger" business dating all the way back to Juan Trippe and Howard Hughes. Does he really think that Arpey, Tilton, Kellner, and Steenland would stand by and do nothing? The biggest irony of it all is that in an effort to satisfy his ego and become the BIGGEST, he would in effect be putting the "New Delta" back to #3 and in effect, have a network nowhere near as powerful as the other two.

Parker stated that he wanted US Airways to be a major player so that there would not be concerns about US' long-term viability. Check out the merger site on usairways.com. It has several interviews by Parker and also one by Scott Kirby, US' president. Yes, it would drop DL to #3, but only if NW and CO merger with someone else. Do you honestly think we all can make money with oil approaching $100 and with ticket prices running so low contiunuously? I think not. That is why consolidation needs to happen sooner rather than later. Congress and the DOJ need to get their heads out of their asses and stop worrying about protecting "American jobs" (many of which have already been outsourced) and look at increasing the amount of control foreign airlines can have on US carriers. They also need to take a fresh look at the direction the industry is heading in. In 2000, everybody was minting money. Now, other than WN, no one is.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 7):
Why can't we fend this guy off?

It's up to the creditors and judge. If you work for DL, you have absolutely no say. Stop being emotional and think with your head. The creditors will likely take whatever offer gives them the most cash back. Whoever does that will end up in control.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

I also think its delusional for US employees to think its a walk in the park and state its only up to DL creditors and not taking into account the political forces at work too. Thats naive.

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6358 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
That is why consolidation needs to happen sooner rather than later.

You work for NW, seeing as you're a ramper, were you one of the outsourced ones? How do you feel about your own airline being consolidated, or your CEO selling thousands of employees up the shit creek? See what happens when NW gets picked up by someone else and see how long your senority plumets.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
If you work for DL, you have absolutely no say. Stop being emotional and think with your head. The creditors will likely take whatever offer gives them the most cash back

We're all thinking with our heads. This isn't always about dollars and cents, when was the last time the biggest payoff was always the best choice? That way is often boobytrapped. Some of the creditors may see it as a good immediate payoff, but I believe the rest will prevail and see that this deal is a sham and will result in the demise of a once (and still) good airline. Boeing, ALPA, and alot of the rest won't let this crap happen. There's more to be made outside of this deal, Parker's "synergies" are a bunch of bullllllllshit.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6290 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
If you work for DL, you have absolutely no say. Stop being emotional and think with your head.

Incorrect.

The creditors will take into account a happy work force. If they go with the US plan, there will be workforce problems beyond belief. This will have an effect on their investment.

Again, they will take this into consideration, whether you like it or not.


User currently offlineUSAirPlatinum From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6279 times:

Does he really think that Arpey, Tilton, Kellner, and Steenland would stand by and do nothing?

Tilton and Steenland have no money (though the former could pull off a CO merger), Kellner's options are limited by the NWA golden share, and Arpey's in no mood for a merger post-TWA unless UA and CO force his hand in Texas and Chicagoland.

I love how Parker uses that word, synergies. You mean to say, fuck Delta people out of all they've worked for?

Delta's people are already fucked -- they're in Chapter 11 and losing money fast. The question is how fucked they're going to be and for how long. They either "stay an independent carrier" loaded with debt and dependent upon transatlantic revenues (a dodgy proposition for long-term stability), or they merge with someone.

A merger will result in 10% to 20% capacity reduction. An independent Delta hit by $100 a barrel oil and shrinking demand for international flying could see 40% or more capacity reduction. And, of course, if Delta's poor financial performance continues, compounded by additional interest on the staggering debt they'll need for that $12 billion re-org, you'll have a liquidation where there's a 100% capacity reduction and DL employees end up with bounced paychecks and desperately hoping someone buys their piece of the airline and employs them.

Delta's advocates act like all they have to do is get a re-org plan and emerge and everything is OK, when that's not the situation. Take a look around you. . . Delta's no longer on top. Heck, Delta is only in the game because creditors are betting they'll lose less money by allowing the Delta corpse to shuffle forward as a zombie (and probably dump the stock when it goes public) versus just shutting it down and selling the assets. That's not a position of strength.



"Hey guys, Delta is OUR Delta right now." -- Unpaid Creditors
User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2146 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6260 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
.creditors sometimes (I said sometimes, there are no rules here) are attracted to whatever deal puts the most money in their pocket and have little interest in the longer term advantages of taking an equity interest in the reorganized corporation.

That's because they can invest that (up-front) money into another venture. The end result is more than they would get in return from the reorganized company.


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6242 times:

However much financing Delta can get... bounded by the reality of the money they could ever actually make as a business... Doug Parker can probably get MORE via Wall Street, since his plan involves lower costs and equal revenue compared to standalone Delta.

Or, if you like, Boeing, ALPA and any other partisan players may say, "screw US Airways," we are sticking with Delta regardless of whose plan makes more money. I think this would please a.net no end. But it would probably result in a weaker Delta, fed by cronyism instead of rationality. Cronyism has its limits.... the open market does not.

It still amazes me how much people love Delta management. What a 180 degree turn from just 3 or 4 years ago. Don't people realize Doug would run Delta well enough, not "screwing" people out of jobs? Did the US/HP merger screw people out of jobs? YES... mostly executives.

Sure, at let's say BNA airport you'd be somewhat (but not grossly) overstaffed. In time, headcount would fall back plenty quick. It would not be a layoff situation. US's main challenge has been hiring ENOUGH workers...


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6232 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 15):
You work for NW, seeing as you're a ramper, were you one of the outsourced ones? How do you feel about your own airline being consolidated, or your CEO selling thousands of employees up the shit creek? See what happens when NW gets picked up by someone else and see how long your senority plumets.

As long as I have a job I'll be happy. My training with NW starts January 6th. Until then, I'm going to watch very closely to see how it shakes out. Frankly, unless AA gives NW a sweetheart deal, I doubt NW will succumb to anyone.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 15):
We're all thinking with our heads. This isn't always about dollars and cents, when was the last time the biggest payoff was always the best choice? That way is often boobytrapped. Some of the creditors may see it as a good immediate payoff, but I believe the rest will prevail and see that this deal is a sham and will result in the demise of a once (and still) good airline. Boeing, ALPA, and alot of the rest won't let this crap happen. There's more to be made outside of this deal, Parker's "synergies" are a bunch of bullllllllshit.

Glad to see that. Tell WorldTraveler that. I've gotten the impression that all Delta is doing lately is posturing due to these talks/takeovers. I do think Delta has the best overall network right now, with very few holes (Asian expanion is next on the agenda, under US control or not), along with excellent employees. My beef was with DGS, not mainline DL, whom I love. I just never understood why a wholly-owned subisidiary would outsource to OTHER airlines! I think it's bad for business and hurts DL's overall reputation. Sure, airlines do other airlines' work, especially maintenance, but they don't create a whole new subdivision to do it. What position are you in at DL? I was ramp/cabin service (Dept 120) in PIT.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6220 times:

Excellent! This is great news! I knew they would up the offer!! The best part about it is DL employee's are almost all non-union and they can do whatever they need to do with them to make the airline work. I hope this happens! Fingers crossed!  Smile


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6209 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 15):
You work for NW, seeing as you're a ramper, were you one of the outsourced ones? How do you feel about your own airline being consolidated, or your CEO selling thousands of employees up the shit creek? See what happens when NW gets picked up by someone else and see how long your senority plumets.

Not to be rude mate, but that is the nature of all business, especially in the aviation industry....

It's unfortunate, but if you want to be the one in charge, you have to either be in management or start your own business....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineUSAirPlatinum From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6196 times:

Boeing, ALPA and any other partisan players may say, "screw US Airways," we are sticking with Delta regardless of whose plan makes more money

In which case, Boeing shareholders have a revolt when Delta collapses into bankruptcy again in 24 months and people say "how come you didn't take the higher offer?"

a weaker Delta, fed by cronyism instead of rationality

No doubt. I expect the US merger will fail, Delta will "emerge independently" loaded up with debt, and yields/loads will decline on the international expansion (which I hear involves flying a lot of empty planes on very thin routes). Couple a fare war and $100 a barrel oil, along with European green taxes sending international fares to Europe up 25% to 40%, and Delta's kissing the tarmac again.

The second bankruptcy will be a "merger oriented" transaction, with lots of cronyists (as you call them) seeking a government bailout, but I suspect creditors will have had their fill. Delta, in this scenario, won't merge but rather will have the constituent parts with value (mostly Atlanta) sold to carriers filling in holes in their network. Most of the employment ends, most of the planes go in the desert, etc.

Don't people realize Doug would run Delta well enough, not "screwing" people out of jobs?

The problem is, he'd have labor dead-set against him. Labor militancy, pride, etc. at the former Delta would stymie his every move, and they'd all be complaining about the 10% capacity reduction -- never mind the fact that there will be at least a 30% reduction with an "independent" Delta once the poo hits the fan.

There's also just an element of snobbery -- like what the old USAir had towards SWA. "We're a great carrier, they're a stinky low-cost upstart." Ironic that the tables are turned here.

US's main challenge has been hiring ENOUGH workers...

This logic simply isn't going to get through. Delta's key stakeholders hate change and will fight it every step of the way, all the way to the employment line. Remember, these are the folks who did "full pay to the last day" all the way into bankruptcy, and whose pilot's union came within a whisker of shutting the carrier down altogether.

If they're willing to do that to their "own" management, imagine what they'll do when profit-oriented guys who make tough decisions take over. It would be an operational disaster for US.



"Hey guys, Delta is OUR Delta right now." -- Unpaid Creditors
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 17):
they're in Chapter 11 and losing money fast.

Incorrect, and you've been shown time and time again evidence to the contrary. Stop saying it.

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 17):
They either "stay an independent carrier" loaded with debt and dependent upon transatlantic revenues (a dodgy proposition for long-term stability), or they merge with someone.

These are not the only two options. You've been shown time and time again evidence to the contrary. Stop saying it.

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 17):
Delta's no longer on top

Leading carrier across the Atlantic, practically tied for first in customer service in JD Powers, just to name a few...

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 17):
Heck, Delta is only in the game because creditors are betting they'll lose less money by allowing the Delta corpse to shuffle forward as a zombie (and probably dump the stock when it goes public) versus just shutting it down and selling the assets. That's not a position of strength.

Please show some documentation of this or admit it's your own, biased opinion.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6175 times:

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 23):
There's also just an element of snobbery -- like what the old USAir had towards SWA. "We're a great carrier, they're a stinky low-cost upstart."

Ironically, that's also the same attitude Delta has towards airTran. Funny, isn't it?



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
25 USAirPlatinum : Incorrect, and you've been shown time and time again evidence to the contrary No I haven't. Delta is cash-flow negative and losing money when operatio
26 B777-700 : Sure you have. You choose to ignore it because it's devastating to your argument. Yes. Emerge. But not in the way you described. I think it's only a
27 FlyPNS1 : Actually, WT has posted DOT data that shows DL is losing money on transatlantic (and latin america). In fact, WT's words were that DL was using domes
28 USAirPlatinum : Actually, WT has posted DOT data that shows DL is losing money on transatlantic (and latin america). In fact, WT's words were that DL was using domest
29 B777-700 : No, you're not. You're completly making it up. Do you think upper management isn't looking at these things? I along with most rational people, trust
30 USAirPlatinum : Do you think upper management isn't looking at these things? They might be looking at them. They're also the guys who were in charge when Delta was "l
31 B777-700 : Only if you'll pardon me if I think you're a hypocrite for bashing Delta for using chapter 11 when your airline has used it twice, and your Messiah D
32 USAirPlatinum : bashing Delta for using chapter 11 when your airline has used it twice I'm not bashing Delta in the slightest. I am pointing out that Delta is not in
33 JetBlueGuy2006 : I need clarification, if I am wrong, please correct me. Wasn't HP the one that bailed out US? They just chose to keep the US name because it was more
34 OA412 : That is indeed how it happened. US was on the verge of liquidation and was merged into HP.
35 SESGDL : DL's pilots are indeed creditors, and they have a say. They've said no already and will say no when the deal is approved/disproved. This deal is not
36 USAirPlatinum : Wasn't HP the one that bailed out US? They just chose to keep the US name because it was more well-known? That is correct. And it worked well, despite
37 AA787823 : IMHO, I think Doug Parker is taking on way more than he should at this point/
38 ScottB : But...US Airways plans to borrow over $7 billion from Citigroup to try to pimp Parker's merger idea. How is it that a combined airline which would be
39 Post contains images B777-700 : You sure? I mean reeeeeally sure? D'OH! Not merged yet. 'I'm not bashing' US, just pointing that out. All indications are this is incorrect. Please p
40 DL787932ER : Let's hope filing the DL reorg plan can put an end to this lunacy. All the speculation (even the wild-eyed rants thrown out by the DL bashers) has bee
41 Jetlanta : FlyPNS1, you rightly pointed this out. However, you didn't comment on the general discussion. I'd love to hear your thoughts on USAirPlatinum's gener
42 Mariner : Meanwhile, Mr. Grinstein builds his monument - to himself. mariner
43 Flyorski : Formerly Boeing vs Airbus, now.... US vs. Delta. We really cant influence what happens, but I hope that no people loose their jobs. Of course in a bus
44 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : Yeah - isn't this fun! A lot of US people like it, most Delta people don't (shocking). Now, what will be very exciting is IF the merger goes through,
45 USAirPlatinum : Documentation please? Please link me to a chapter 7 filing. Give me 24 months. There will obviously be some people here who are going to take it very
46 CA2OHHP : Thank god someone else noticed that too.[Edited 2006-12-19 01:27:53]
47 FlyPNS1 : I've largely ignored his rantings because I don't even know where to start. While I have certainly been critical of DL, I don't think DL is in as bad
48 Post contains images Mariner : The last roar of the old lion? mariner
49 ScottB : US Airways lost $78 million last quarter. Should they be merging or fixing their own losses? Is that the cash balance that "declined" from $2.0 billi
50 Post contains links and images B777-700 : No, now. Where are these facts? Surly since you've done such a thorough analysis of Delta's numbers, ( ) and you can predict the future, you can prov
51 Post contains links Gift4tbone : Keep Delta your Delta, We don't want it. That said: Proof DL isn't all it once was: Delta Gives Up Gates At Boston Logan (by WMUPilot Dec 18 2006 in C
52 Post contains images B777-700 : A reasonable assessment, PNS. We've had our differences in the past, but I hope ol' USairPlat actually takes what you said to heart. Well put. D'oh!
53 Wingnut767 : Way to knock them out of the park ScottB. Those damn pesky facts keep getting in the way This is alos the same notion with CAL and UAl. The people at
54 Db373 : I would just like to point out that this is the same person who claimed in an earlier thread "no one can predict the future" and then told people to
55 Surfdog75 : DL is building a nice customer product with all new interiors, state-of-the-art IFE and has some of the most advanced technology in the industry. They
56 SHUPirate1 : May I add that those credit cards will be USELESS mileage-wise come January 1st, 2008?
57 USAirPlatinum : DL is building a nice customer product with all new interiors, state-of-the-art IFE and has some of the most advanced technology in the industry. They
58 DeltAirlines : I'd say quite the opposite is true. With SkyMiles, between my father and myself (I manage his account - he's almost a Million Miler; I'm a Medallion
59 Post contains images B777-700 : Hey, how's BWI working out for ya? We've asked for documentation of this. You refuse to prove it. You have no credibility. Incorrect, and this has be
60 NorCal : Before the HP merger, US airways was the worst legacy carrier in the country. They had the highest costs and were in the most dire of straits. DL isn
61 Alitalia744 : by that logic then US is F*cked by having given up more than 1/2 of their gates at one point at PIT? c'mon get a life bro
62 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : That is my whole point about USAirways right now. They are grossly overvalued and the price of their stock is about to drop like a rock. We call this
63 DeltaGuy : Well put- Citigroup is putting their proverbial nutsack on the line in order to finance this, and they're going to get screwed in the end. If (when)
64 Yyz717 : There was an interesting editorial in a recent edition of AWST that came out against a US (read: HP) purchase of DL simply due to the inability of US
65 Post contains images USAirPlatinum : Oh please, all this Delta propaganda is laughable after reading the summary of their plan. Delta claims that their new stock is going to be so valuabl
66 Mariner : And what "cash" does Delta plan to use to buy Delta back from the creditors? mariner
67 Post contains images USAirPlatinum : Hey, I'm going to restructure myself. Give me $100 million now, and I'll give you shares in my future emerged corporation. This investment bank I've p
68 ScottB : Funny, AOL bought Time Warner on the basis of "solidly performing stock." I wonder how Time Warner shareholders felt about that merger after three ye
69 Panamair : As usual, a factually incorrect statement.
70 Pbottenb : Hi - are you saying that DL is not in BK and that they are indeed making a profit? If so, great, please provide some evidence to support this.
71 USAirPlatinum : AOL bought Time Warner on the basis of "solidly performing stock." Nope, Time Warner bought AOL. And at the time, AOL was trading at an outrageous pre
72 USAirPlatinum : Ooops, I made a typo. If Delta trades at 10x earnings, it's worth FIVE billion dollars, not $6 billion. Not to mention that's assuming that Delta hits
73 Panamair : So why is Dougie willing to pay $8bn+ for it? Actually, no creditor can get their hands on those $4 billion in cash or the stock until the deal is ac
74 USAirPlatinum : So why is Dougie willing to pay $8bn+ for it? Because he can take an extra $1.6 billion in costs out of it -- which creates an annual annuity which is
75 Post contains links ScottB : Wrong, AOL bought Time Warner. AOL came first in the name and Steve Case ended up as the chairman. AOL shareholders ended up with a majority (55%) of
76 USAirPlatinum : US Airways is trading at 124 times earnings for the trailing twelve months That's including the losses that US East posted to get out of bankruptcy. O
77 Delta737 : USAirPlatinum - It's easier, and less messy to say "OK, I got busted talking out of my arse, got called on it and had no data to prove otherwise" than
78 SLCUT2777 : JMHO: This internet troll who obviously loves to annoy us "Deltoids" obviously has as much brain power as the morons over at Citigroup who have put u
79 DeltaGuy : Sounds better than US's idea, 'give me $4 billion in blind faith now to buy out our competition, and we'll also give you that much in stock in our ne
80 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Speculation is an understatement on this one! Do they have that kind of cash in their loan loss reserve?
81 Delta787 : Which year are you in? You have no credibility.
82 USAirPlatinum : It's funny how the Delta cheerleaders keep attacking me while citing the 10-K and then claim Delta's not losing about $1 billion per year. No worries.
83 Pope : Has anyone considered that US wins either way? If US sweetens its offer with the full expectation that it will still be rejected, it forces DL to offe
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