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London Ashford Set For Expansion  
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/6189193.stm

Quote: "Planning applications have been submitted for a new passenger terminal and extended runway at a Kent airport.
The proposals are for London Ashford Airport, at Lydd, to accommodate 500,000 passengers a year and offer flights further afield than presently."

Firstly, how on earth can Lydd airport be called London Ashford when it must be at least 70 miles from London ?

I can't see how they are going to attract 500,000 passengers initially, building up to 2,000,000. When they redeveloped MSE (Kent International / Manston) things looked promising, but EUJet soon folded and there are now only limited charters from there. I know Lydd is 30 odd miles from Manston but can the catchment area really be that different ?

Quote:
"The proposed £3m runway extension - from 1,505m (4,938ft) to 1,799m (5,902ft) - would mean planes carrying a greater fuel load and therefore being able to reach a greater range of destinations."

What would be the maximum size aircraft that could use a 5,900ft runway ?

Not really knowing a great deal about the area, does anyone see this being a success ?

JC


"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Too far from London. A few years ago, Kent lost the oppurtunity to have Cliffe airport, which would have been so much better an option... shame.

User currently offlineCardiffairtaxi From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Thread starter):
Firstly, how on earth can Lydd airport be called London Ashford when it must be at least 70 miles from London ?

I can't see how they are going to attract 500,000 passengers initially, building up to 2,000,000. When they redeveloped MSE (Kent International / Manston) things looked promising, but EUJet soon folded and there are now only limited charters from there. I know Lydd is 30 odd miles from Manston but can the catchment area really be that different ?

Quote:
"The proposed £3m runway extension - from 1,505m (4,938ft) to 1,799m (5,902ft) - would mean planes carrying a greater fuel load and therefore being able to reach a greater range of destinations."

What would be the maximum size aircraft that could use a 5,900ft runway ?

Not really knowing a great deal about the area, does anyone see this being a success ?

JC

I think Ryanair might disagree with you there!Same country,South East,and people talk with more or less the same accent!


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Quoting Cardiffairtaxi (Reply 2):
I think Ryanair might disagree with you there!Same country,South East,and people talk with more or less the same accent!

 rotfl  I was waiting for that, and only the 2nd reply - good going  Smile



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineCardiffairtaxi From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 3):

I think its roughly the same as Ryanair "Barcelona" (gerona) in distance,from the actual named city.
If Ashford gets the "London" tag,will Beauvais become the new Kent International???


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Looking at the airport's website www.lydd-airport.co.uk the only destination served by this airport at the moment is Le Toucquet so FR could probably make a few routes work from Brighton (Lydd)  Smile


"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Thread starter):
"The proposed ?3m runway extension - from 1,505m (4,938ft) to 1,799m (5,902ft) - would mean planes carrying a greater fuel load and therefore being able to reach a greater range of destinations."



Quoting LHRjc (Thread starter):
What would be the maximum size aircraft that could use a 5,900ft runway ?

]

In Denmark the airport in Odense (ODE) is expanding to 1.799 meters in order to accomodate the 737-800; probably loking at luring FR and maybe a few charters from Sterling. Sems like this could also be the case here (luring FR)

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 6):
In Denmark the airport in Odense (ODE) is expanding to 1.799 meters in order to accomodate the 737-800; probably loking at luring FR and maybe a few charters from Sterling. Sems like this could also be the case here (luring FR)

Interesting, sounds like you could be right. Maybe KLc could also make an AMS feeder route using an F50 work, or some short FlyBe hops across to France.

It will be certainly interesting to see what becomes of "London" Ashford.

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineAerArann From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3650 times:

The perfect market for RE to enter

London Ashford - Belfast, Dublin, Cork & L'Orient


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting AerArann (Reply 8):
The perfect market for RE to enter

London Ashford - Belfast, Dublin, Cork & L'Orient

I recently counted 48 flights A DAY between Dublin and London. Do we really need more?


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
I recently counted 48 flights A DAY between Dublin and London. Do we really need more?

I may be wrong but I think the nearest airport to Lydd (sorry London Ashford) that offers flights to DUB is LGW which is 75 miles by road, mostly A roads too. Maybe there could be a big enough catchment aread in southern Kent / Sussex to make this work ?

[Edited 2006-12-18 16:50:07]


"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

The airport seems to have very high ambitions. I think they would be far better off trying to get a Channel Islands flight next with either Lydd Air or Blue Islands and take things from there. They need to prove there is a market for flights other than to Le Tourquet. Then they can perhaps go after services such as Dublin and Amsterdam

Kent Int Airport is also going to have a big impact on Lydd's plans - I dont think if MSE got say a DUB flight, Lydd would also be able to support one, at least in the short term. And in terms of catchment size, MSE is far more attractive than Lydd



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 11):
Kent Int Airport is also going to have a big impact on Lydd's plans - I dont think if MSE got say a DUB flight, Lydd would also be able to support one, at least in the short term. And in terms of catchment size, MSE is far more attractive than Lydd

 checkmark  Agreed

Didn't MSE use to have a flight to DUB with EUJet before they went bankrupt last year ?

Apart from the new ZB flight to the US is there any likelihood of any new routes from MSE in the foreseeable future ?

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently onlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
Too far from London.

A "quick and dirty" distance calculation shows that Lydd-London is roughly the same distance as Hahn-Frankfurt. And Ryanair does advertise the latter as "Frankfurt Hahn".

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 13):
A "quick and dirty" distance calculation shows that Lydd-London is roughly the same distance as Hahn-Frankfurt. And Ryanair does advertise the latter as "Frankfurt Hahn".

True, but I'd imagine it's easier to market Hahn as Frankfurt than it would be marketing Lydd as London Ashford, as Lydd is stuck out on the coast with quite a small catchment area, whereas Hahn looks to be in a larger more land locked catchment area.

That said, I guess to be spending millions of pounds on runway extensions and airport improvements, I'd hope that the authorities and investors have done their homework !

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3252 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 12):
Didn't MSE use to have a flight to DUB with EUJet before they went bankrupt last year ?

Yes

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 12):
Apart from the new ZB flight to the US is there any likelihood of any new routes from MSE in the foreseeable future ?

PMI and ALC are new charter routes for Kent Escapes, although BCN is dropped (so overall gain of one weekly flight, plus Monarch)



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):

I still find it hard to understand why Kent's only 2 international airports of Lydd and Manston (I'm counting Biggin Hill as London even though it's in Kent, and hoping I haven't forgotten any others) find it so hard to attract custom. Sure, LGW, LHR and even STN are within easy reach of people in places like Bromley, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and such areas, but surely people down in Dover, Ramsgate, Ashford etc must want / need to fly without driving 70 - 80 miles to the airport. Sure the Eurostar and the ferries can take them to France, Belgium etc but barring a few holiday charters from MSE there's not a great deal else for them to choose from. Maybe this is what the operators at Lydd are counting on...

Looking back in the photo database there's loads of pictures of 707's and DC8's of various African outfits at MSE, so I presume there used to be a market there, so why not now ?

A little off topic but is MSE still seeing a lot of cargo flights ?

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

What I think Lydd and/or Manston need are the BIG holiday companies basing a plane there. I mean, when someone books a package holiday, they usually get very little say as to what flight they're booked on... So why not "force" some of the locals into one of the Kent airports?

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Thread starter):
What would be the maximum size aircraft that could use a 5,900ft runway ?

757s can easily



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineIcLCY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

If the high speed commuter services linking Ashford - Ebbsfleet - Stratford - St Pancras/Kings Cross running alongside the new Eurostar tracks get approval the area should see quite a lot of growth.

User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
757s can easily

Lydd - New York? I'm sure CO could do that... Big grin

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 19):
high speed commuter services linking Ashford - Ebbsfleet - Stratford - St Pancras/Kings Cross

If I could hop on the train from Ebbsfleet to Ashford, I'd be on that flight!


User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 19):
If the high speed commuter services linking Ashford - Ebbsfleet - Stratford - St Pancras/Kings Cross running alongside the new Eurostar tracks get approval the area should see quite a lot of growth.

The commuter trains are being built at the moment, the line opens next year.

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 5):
Brighton (Lydd)

Does Brighton need two airports?  Smile


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Thread starter):
Firstly, how on earth can Lydd airport be called London Ashford when it must be at least 70 miles from London ?

Yes, Calais in France is closer to Lydd than London is. Any takers for Calais- Ashford?

[Edited 2006-12-20 12:22:32]

[Edited 2006-12-20 12:23:51]

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 16):
Looking back in the photo database there's loads of pictures of 707's and DC8's of various African outfits at MSE, so I presume there used to be a market there, so why not now ?

Freighters !
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Seems a ridiculous place to devlop.

It has no major infrastucutre, no major road and not even a rail connection to London. It is in the corner of the country and is interestingly slap bang next to a nuclear power station. The only two towns it would really catch is Hastings and Ashford and it's not much further to LGW for either of those. It's also a pretty awful part of the country.

Developing MSE seems a much more sensible idea to me. It has a much higher catchment population.

[Edited 2006-12-20 14:29:58]

25 Banco : Nope. Lydd's completely inaccessible from most of Sussex. Put it this way, I live in mid-Sussex, and when I visit my parents in East Kent, the only r
26 Vasu : Agreed. Plus, MSE already has one of the largest runways in the UK, plenty of room for expansion and experience in running proper airline operations!
27 Banco : Yes, and have always failed for the same reason. Kent's population isn't big enough to support a major airport when you have two close at hand in Ess
28 Vir744 : What makes me laugh about Lydd is the "LAA" signs with a BAA style logo splashed all around the terminal - ah bless! Shoreham is getting similar, the
29 Humberside : Lydd has been busy handling diversions recently - mainly business jets but also Euromanx (info from pprune)
30 Post contains images Zvezda : If ABZ were to be renamed London Aberdeen, would the airport be able to support more traffic to more destinations?
31 Post contains images Gigneil : I'm not sure... it doesn't really help Manston all that much. NS
32 CRJ900 : Is STN close to reaching its max capacity soon, so that FR and EZY have no choice but to consider MSE, or is that still many years away yet?
33 Gigneil : I have personally waited 2 hours in the immigration line at STN... I dunno if the airport itself is at capacity or just the Home Office. NS
34 Post contains images Banco : Mate, I've done the same at US airports. A truism of travel is that immigration are evil gits the world over.
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