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So The CRJ-900 Is A Regional Jet?  
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16405 times:

I think this probably conclusive proof that the CRJ-900 is not a regional jet... and many of the routes it flies should be flown by mainline with mainline equipment.

Delta / Skywest's YYZ-SLC flight. Yesterday it blocked 5 hours and 2 minutes and routinely blocks over 4 hours. Can you imagine that? Over 5 hours in a CRJ.... I have trouble being comfortable in a 757 for 5 hours!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW4004

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16390 times:

No. i'm 6'1 175 and im fine in the CRJ. The problem i hae is that these e-190/crj-900's need t's or at least power ports for your laptop.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6193 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16304 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Thread starter):
I think this probably conclusive proof that the CRJ-900 is not a regional jet... and many of the routes it flies should be flown by mainline with mainline equipment.

Why should it be flown by "mainline" equipment? That flight only sits 70. Assuming even a LF of 80% on the CRJ900, are you suggesting that a DL MD80 with 142-seats be put on the route? What sense does that make?



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16288 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 4):
Why should it be flown by "mainline" equipment? That flight only sits 70. Assuming even a LF of 80% on the CRJ900, are you suggesting that a DL MD80 with 142-seats be put on the route? What sense does that make?

5 hour flights should be flown with aircraft with full ammenities. Although a reduced seating CRJ-900 is coming close, I'm still talking about full galleys, more than two underpaid overworked flight attendants, full room for the passengers, ability for them to take on their carry-ons, a true first class, etc. Additionally, this route is by no means "regional" and shouldn't be flown by regional airlines... the crews onboard should be paid a descent salary to operate such a flight.

This is a transcontinental flight flown between two major cities. If this is a "regional" route flown by a "regional" aircraft, that makes it so that essentially all flights within north america are worthy of this type of substandard service. The only exemptions would be such extreme examples as JFK-LAX.

But then again, this is all just my opinion, and you have yours as well. I'm sure we can both agree that 5 hours is a long long CRJ flight.  Smile


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16228 times:
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Then routes like JFK-MIA (BTW was switched over to mainline on the 15th) JFK-DTW, JFK-CVG, JFK-ATL (2 mainline 2 DCI), NYC-ORD, JFK-CLE
All routes between two major cities
All operated by DL Connex
All not steady yeilding enough for mainline a/c.

[Edited 2006-12-18 17:51:33]


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6193 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16223 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
But then again, this is all just my opinion, and you have yours as well.

But you haven't answered the over 100% seating discrepency between the CR9 and the MD80... just think of the trip cost differential versus the revenue with only 56 pax!!! That is not open to opinion.  Smile



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16209 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 3):
Not only one, but two mispelled posts.

 laughing   laughing   laughing 

Quoting Flyf15 (Thread starter):
I think this probably conclusive proof that the CRJ-900 is not a regional jet

Proof? Proof is fact; as in what "CRJ" stands for, "Canadair REGIONAL JET". It is a Regional Jet, no matter how long its flights are.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineVeeref From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16177 times:

I think what the original poster is getting at is the fact that, particularly in coach, the product offered on the RJ is nowhere near that of a "traditional" larger mainline aircraft.
Even two hours in the back of an RJ is an all out assault on the senses, let alone 5.
Just wait, those E-190 flights to Hawaii are coming..

Though I fly cargo, I position quite a bit on airlines and for trips longer than 2 hours I will usually go out of my way to avoid RJ flights of any longer than that if possible.


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16165 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
5 hour flights should be flown with aircraft with full ammenities. Although a reduced seating CRJ-900 is coming close,

And what is full amenities these days?

Quoting Flyf15 (Thread starter):
I think this probably conclusive proof that the CRJ-900 is not a regional jet... and many of the routes it flies should be flown by mainline with mainline equipment.

Delta / Skywest's YYZ-SLC flight. Yesterday it blocked 5 hours and 2 minutes and routinely blocks over 4 hours. Can you imagine that? Over 5 hours in a CRJ.... I have trouble being comfortable in a 757 for 5 hours!

I think people forget that the CRJ and other RJs for that matter has the same seat space as any other standard mainline aircraft. You're not going to get more seat space in a 757 than a CRJ. I don't really get what the complaint is looking at some of the mainline aircraft I'd much rather be in a CRJ.

Plus, the CRJ700/900 is one of the most comfortable aircraft out there, don't know if you have flown them.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16149 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 8):
Proof? Proof is fact; as in what "CRJ" stands for, "Canadair REGIONAL JET". It is a Regional Jet, no matter how long its flights are.

What I'm trying to say is that even though it is called a regional jet, that name started off when it was a 50 seat bird flying Cincinnati to Roanoke and Atlanta to Lexington. Now that it has evolved into a 90 seat transcontinental aircraft, it has outgrown its name and stigma as a "regional jet" and is now an aircraft flying true mainline routes, although not providing mainline service, comfort, etc. Although it may be called a "CRJ", it is by no means a regional jet.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16135 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):

While 5 hours might be long for what would be "Regional Jet" asserting that mainline aircraft should operate the routes is too simplistic of a view.

The very concept of smaller/cheaper regional jet flying is what allows carriers like DL and every other US carrier to provide routes to its customers that mainline aircraft simply could not support both from capacity needs and economics.

There is no question the RJ's have been a airline game changer allowing many more city-pairs to be serviced that prior simply would not exist. Definately a positive for the consumer.

If the choice was between a multi stop mainline jet, or a nonstop RJ particularly the latest generation of larger RJ's such as the CRJ900 or EMB170/190, I would happily take the nonstop RJ.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGh123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16100 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 3):
Not only one, but two mispelled posts

So what?!


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6193 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

Quoting Veeref (Reply 9):
Just wait, those E-190 flights to Hawaii are coming..

Which will be alot more comfortable than any 737/757 flight to Hawaii!  Smile

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 10):
You're not going to get more seat space in a 757 than a CRJ.

Shhhh, don't ruin another RJ myth!  Wink

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 11):
is now an aircraft flying true mainline routes, although not providing mainline service, comfort, etc.

Like what? How is a 737/757 better "service" and "comfort"?



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineHiFi From Brazil, joined Apr 2005, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16063 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
5 hour flights should be flown with aircraft with full ammenities. Although a reduced seating CRJ-900 is coming close, I'm still talking about full galleys, more than two underpaid overworked flight attendants, full room for the passengers, ability for them to take on their carry-ons, a true first class, etc. Additionally, this route is by no means "regional" and shouldn't be flown by regional airlines... the crews onboard should be paid a descent salary to operate such a flight.

This is a transcontinental flight flown between two major cities. If this is a "regional" route flown by a "regional" aircraft, that makes it so that essentially all flights within north america are worthy of this type of substandard service. The only exemptions would be such extreme examples as JFK-LAX.

But then again, this is all just my opinion, and you have yours as well. I'm sure we can both agree that 5 hours is a long long CRJ flight

OK. So, we have 3 options...
1. Demand increases. Suddenly, everybody wants to get from YYZ to SLC and back, in order to fill a mainline equipment. I don't think this option is realistic.
2. Airline puts big plane to fly the route, asking for government subsidies in order to maintain reasonable prices. If you and half americans are willing to spend you tax money to make YYZ-SLC a mainline route, it's all set. Democracy, after all!
3. Airline puts big plane to fly the route and offers the ticket at twice the fare you paid, in order to maintain profit. Would you pay? Or would you chose the airline next door and fly an RJ? I bet U$100 that 99% of the clients would go for the airline next door. Consequence: airline bankrupts. And pilots and F/As who you wished made more money are not paid anymore. And some of them laid off.

Better service = more expensive. You chose.  Wink
Experience shows that the majority choses cheap fares.



no commercial potential
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6193 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15947 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
The very concept of smaller/cheaper regional jet flying is what allows carriers like DL and every other US carrier to provide routes to its customers that mainline aircraft simply could not support both from capacity needs and economics.

That is right... according to UD DOT O&D traffic data (2Q2005), over 90% of US domestic markets are less than 100 pax per day.

Quoting HiFi (Reply 15):
Or would you chose the airline next door and fly an RJ?

????  Wink

Have you forgotten that it is a much better travel experience flying an E170 than any 737 or 757!!



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15743 times:
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Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
5 hour flights should be flown with aircraft with full ammenities. Although a reduced seating CRJ-900 is coming close, I'm still talking about full galleys, more than two underpaid overworked flight attendants, full room for the passengers, ability for them to take on their carry-ons, a true first class, etc. Additionally, this route is by no means "regional" and shouldn't be flown by regional airlines... the crews onboard should be paid a descent salary to operate such a flight.

This is a transcontinental flight flown between two major cities. If this is a "regional" route flown by a "regional" aircraft, that makes it so that essentially all flights within north america are worthy of this type of substandard service. The only exemptions would be such extreme examples as JFK-LAX.

The CRJ900 is available with "full galleys" with hot-ovens, bun warmers, wine coolers, cappuccino machine etc if the airline wants to install those things. Comfy seats and PTVs are already flying on AC Jazz' CRJ705s.

Many 150-seat B737s and A319s have only 3 FAs - I'll bet they are even more overworked. 2 FAs on a 70-76 seat CRJ900 sounds quite alright, actually.

Airlines decide how they want to equip their airplanes, and if they want to make them cheap and people are still willing to pay to fly on them, then why should the airlines change that formula? The CRJ was a short-range jet until airlines asked Bombardier to squeeze more range out of them.

The CRJ900 is here to stay for the next 20 years. 36 more of them will grace the North American skies in NWA colours starting next year. I won't be surprised if SkyWest/DL orders more too.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15727 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 15):
Many 150-seat B737s and A319s have only 3 FAs

Very true.. and now B6's 320's too.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15700 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 8):
Plus, the CRJ700/900 is one of the most comfortable aircraft out there, don't know if you have flown them.

Hahahahahaha!

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 15):
The CRJ900 is available with "full galleys" with hot-ovens, bun warmers, wine coolers, cappuccino machine etc if the airline wants to install those things. Comfy seats and PTVs are already flying on AC Jazz' CRJ705s.

The CRJ cabin is one of the worst designed I've ever seen as a flight attendant. Have you ever worked one? That stupid plane makes you work twice as hard as you should. And heaven forbid you are of average height, as I am: the galley left me with an aching neck every night. One look at the rear FA jumpseat should be enough to make you hate that plane, though. I really could go on and on.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15686 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 8):
Plus, the CRJ700/900 is one of the most comfortable aircraft out there, don't know if you have flown them.

No airplane seat is "comfortable", especially the CR7 (except for the UA First Suite on the 772)!



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15657 times:
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Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 17):
That stupid plane makes you work twice as hard as you should.

Why? Can you please elaborate?  Smile And no, I haven't worked one. LH and OS FAs I have spoken to were positive about their CRJs...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15615 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
If this is a "regional" route flown by a "regional" aircraft, that makes it so that essentially all flights within north america are worthy of this type of substandard service. The only exemptions would be such extreme examples as JFK-LAX.

In my opinion the definition of the regional aircraft has changed quite a bit in just the last 20 years. Remember when there were no regional jet aircraft and the definition was that you were basically flying a prop job. The definition is changing again and it's really not that big of a deal, but I guess you must get used to it.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23022 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15432 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 4):
NYC-ORD



Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 4):
All not steady yeilding enough for mainline a/c

The suggestion that NYC-ORD suffers from low yields is absurd. DL suffers from the inability (for reasons outside the scope of this thread) to divert sufficient traffic to warrant mainline from AA, UA, TZ, CO, and (soon) B6.

And more to the point, a 190 is far more comfortable than most mainline aircraft. Just because it's a "regional jet" does not mean it's uncomfortable. Sadly, the -705 is not a 190, but with comparable capacities, it's difficult to say that all 76 seaters are uncomfortable.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15413 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Flyf15 (Thread starter):
I think this probably conclusive proof that the CRJ-900 is not a regional jet...

Nor are the -900 pilots, in practice, "regional" pilots. Talk about a term that's been absolutely raped of it's true meaning....


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15368 times:

Quoting Veeref (Reply 7):
I think what the original poster is getting at is the fact that, particularly in coach, the product offered on the RJ is nowhere near that of a "traditional" larger mainline aircraft.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you the difference. There's no meal service in coach on either flight. If you look at seatguru and compare the seat pitch and width of the RJ to a mainline Jet, they're comparable. Delta's Mad Dogs don't have any IFE (not that it matters to me anyway. My IFE is the window, but I know it does matter to some people) and neither do the CRJ's. So really, what is the difference in product? Plus, when I fly on an RJ, no middle seat, so that's a plus!
Second, even at 6'4", I find the RJ just as comfortable to fly on as a mainline jet (well, the CR7 and CR9 anyway.) Also, the deplaning process on an RJ takes about a third of the time because A) there are fewer people and B) those people can't bring the kitchen sink with them on the plane; it gets checked plane side.


User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 15287 times:

I recently flew SkyWest/DL Connection on MEM-SLC, a flight lasting a shade over 3 hours in the air, on the CRJ-900...it was nice, new, and pretty comfortable. Not that different from a MD-88...and the f/a's were very attentive, more so than mainline...granted, there was no meal or anything, but there wouldn't have been (at least in coach) on a MD-88 either.

It was a good flight...but for more than three hours...that seems a little long.



Go Blue!!
25 Planemaker : You summed up the "facts" in your post and not perceptions or prejudices. The "travel experience" on an RJ is better than mianline NBs for the reason
26 FSPilot747 : Wow this is ridiculous that this is even being debated. I fly a lot between the midwest and the west coast, and having flown on several CRJ-200s and
27 Ikramerica : Very blunt, but true. Mainline has wider armrests, greater headroom (sitting and walking), wider aisles, more leg space at the window seats, real ove
28 Planemaker : The E-jets actually have more interior space per pax, in addition to having wider seats and a wider aisle (and no middle seat!) 31" pitch is 31" pitc
29 FSPilot747 : Have you thought about the vertical seatback? Those numbers don't account for the fact that unless you're in a bulkhead, you can usually easily slide
30 Vfw614 : The aircraft opens up nonstop markets that otherwise would not exist or only at a laughable frequency. That's the whole story. So the only choice is b
31 Cubsrule : That's a carrier issue. The DH seats were fantastic.
32 BCAInfoSys : My biggest gripe with the CRJ is the cabin height and the pathetically-small lavs. I'm a rather big guy at 6'4", and I hate having to bend over to wal
33 Goldenshield : The CRJ 7/900 for DL have two lavs. The one in the rear is the roomiest—assuming it's the same plug that they put into the UA birds. The E170's fro
34 Cltguy : I recently flew a US CRJ900 from PHX-YVR. This is a 3 hour flight, and it was completely full. This was honestly one of the worst planes I have ever b
35 CRJ900 : Will US Airways return the CRJs to their original role and fly them on 1-2-hour shuttle hops while the new E190s do 2-4-hour flights? Low-MTOW one-cla
36 Ikramerica : No doubt, but at 6'3", saying both are bad isn't a fair comparison. While the lav on a 757 isn't great, at least I can physically fit into the thing.
37 Post contains images FSPilot747 :
38 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : And I thought 2 hours from SLC-YVR was bad on a DL CRJ-200! No wonder why I book the 738 flight when I can!
39 Boston92 : Thats what I think with me 3+ hour flight SBA-DFW on a CR7.
40 Goldenshield : Write the companies if you think it's that bad. Dammit, Jim, I'm a dispatcher, not an interior decorator (and my wardrobe proves it.)
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