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Its Official: Sky Europe Opens New Base In VIE!  
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5019 times:

On todays Pressconference in Vienna Skyeurope announced that they will open a new Base in Vienna base 2 B737-700 in Vienna. Following Destinations will be served starting End of March 2007.

Amsterdam
Athens
Barcelona
Brussels
Bucarest
Dublin
Florence
Larnaca
Nice
Paris-Orly
Rimini
Sofia
Split
Thessaloniki
Venice
Zadar

Welcome in Vienna Skyeurope !

[Edited 2006-12-19 11:44:28]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline7474ever From Israel, joined Oct 2006, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5021 times:

What's their current fleet ? And where is it based ?

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5004 times:

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 1):
What's their current fleet ? And where is it based ?

They have a fleet of 737-300s (ex easyJet), 737-500s and brand-new winglet-equiped 737-700s.

They have bases in PRG (2x 73W), KRK, BUD and BTS; BTS is also their headquarters. They have operated a WAW base, but that's no longer the case. Next to base-destination flights they operate a handful of W-patterns, like AMS-INN and ORY-SZG.


User currently offline7474ever From Israel, joined Oct 2006, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4995 times:

Ok, I understand they have a relatively small fleet. Maybe some of you guys can explain me what's the point of spreading the fleet in four different bases ?

Thanks


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4947 times:

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
Ok, I understand they have a relatively small fleet. Maybe some of you guys can explain me what's the point of spreading the fleet in four different bases ?

The easy answer is that they adjust the fleet size on a base to the demand of that base.

SkyEurope is (just like easyJet, Ryanair, etc) not a network-carrier with a hub-and-spoke system; they only operate point-to-point flights from one city to another. By operating a 2-a/c base, you can serve quite a market.

Common wisdom says that 2 a/c is the minimum base size for a LCC because of exploiting some economies of scale; think of having spare parts of a/c or of the personnel capacity at the base, the base managers, etc. easyJet does not have bases smaller than 3 a/c even.

When you look at their routemap you can see that even with 2 a/c you can operate quite a number of flights. Once you see demand is growing, it's easy to increase base size.

So why having your aircaft spread over different bases: well, you enlarge your catchment area.


User currently offline7474ever From Israel, joined Oct 2006, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4931 times:

Thanks. Now these a/c are operated by crews from their bases or crews from the country of the main hub ? (in this case - slovaks ?)

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4919 times:

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 5):
Thanks. Now these a/c are operated by crews from their bases or crews from the country of the main hub ? (in this case - slovaks ?)

Like the other LCCs, SkyEurope operates crew from the base area. So the BUD crew comes from Budapest, the KRK crew from the Krakow area, etc.

However I expect VIE to be an exception to it as I expect that they will use Slovakian crew that is living just across the border: there is a pretty big difference between Slovakian and Austrian salaries.


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4883 times:

Really nice to see the 73Gs NE based in Vienna. I guess some of them are seasonal services only.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
Ok, I understand they have a relatively small fleet. Maybe some of you guys can explain me what's the point of spreading the fleet in four different bases ?

They have no real clue what they are doing. Despite huge and increasing losses they ordered a bunch of new airplanes (expensive leases) which they now have to figure what to do with. Ryanair invades them in BTS and KRK, they lost WAW to Wizzair, so they try to escape to PRG and VIE.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Hmm judging from there bad finacial situation this is the last try to make some money. I give them a few months than they will be gone!

User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Good move by SkyEurope. Vienna is underserved by LCCs and there's a good amount of good paying customers in Vienna.

RJ100



none
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
They have no real clue what they are doing.

Their move to VIE seems a very smart one to me, though, as was IMO their move to PRG.

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
Despite huge and increasing losses they ordered a bunch of new airplanes (expensive leases) which they now have to figure what to do with.

Their a/c order was perfectly timed. Boeing was at a point when they where willing to offer huge discounts and fuel prices were high. With current fuel prices, continue flying 737-500s doesn't seem the right option too, does it? And when trying to grow, you need something like a/c, right?

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
Ryanair invades them in BTS and KRK, they lost WAW to Wizzair, so they try to escape to PRG and VIE.

Or you can say that they found out that they did not want to compete one-to-one with Ryanair on the low-yielding migration routes, but to compete the network carriers from their hubs. They can compete with OK and more so with Smartwings on routes like AMS-PRG, that have different characteristics than KRK-DUB.

It's actually a similar adjustment as easyJet made. Leave the pure low-cost market to Ryanair, and move a bit to the middle, compete with the network carriers on the trunk routes.

Maybe they shouldn't have started in WAW from the beginning, but many things have been written about politics in WAW - also easyJet complained about that - so what happened there is just guessing.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 11):
Their move to VIE seems a very smart one to me, though, as was IMO their move to PRG.

Prague has plenty of LCC services and all routes offered by Sky were already served, sometimes even by 2 or 3 carriers. Their results leave no doubt that it was not smart move. Comparing to previous year they increased revenue by 40% but at the same time the doubled losses.

Quoting Joost (Reply 11):
Boeing was at a point when they where willing to offer huge discounts and fuel prices were high

Sky has all of them on leases as they couldn't afford to pay even for one airplane. Due to poor credit worthiness their leases are very expensive. Any discounts given by Boeing went to the lessor not to SkyEurope. The numbers speak for themselves:
2005 2006 +/- Q4 06
Passengers millions 1.7 2.6 +48.2% 1.0
ASK million km 2,563 3,703 +44.5% 1,323
RPK million km 1,991 2,801 +40.7% 1,110
Load factor % 77.7 75.6 (2.1 pp) 83.9
Revenues million EUR 112.7 158.6 +40.7% 63.0
EBITDAR million EUR (10.7) (21.3) n.m. 4.9
EBIT million EUR (33.6) (55.2) n.m. (6.3)
Net loss for the period million EUR (28.6) (57.3) n.m. (7.1)

Quoting Joost (Reply 11):
Maybe they shouldn't have started in WAW from the beginning, but many things have been written about politics in WAW - also easyJet complained about that - so what happened there is just guessing.

WAW is expensive airport, but it is the same expensive for Wizzair, Ryanair, Easyjet, Norwegian, Centralwings as it is for Sky. There was no politics involved. They simply lost to competition.


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4788 times:

So what? Is it forbidden to make a loss?

Why do we need to debate about NE's finances every time there is an announcement?

If they are that much of crap like some of you think then leave them. The market will decide if they continue or not.



none
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13):
So what? Is it forbidden to make a loss?

Should be!

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13):
The market will decide if they continue or not.

The sooner the better. Big grin


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13):
So what? Is it forbidden to make a loss?

 Embarrassment

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13):

Why do we need to debate about NE's finances every time there is an announcement?

Because every time they make a new move it only makes things worse?  dollarsign 


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
Should be!

Cool, then skip 90% of the airlines  Wink



none
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 16):
Cool, then skip 90% of the airlines

LOL  Big grin thats true!


User currently offlineCY319 From Cyprus, joined Apr 2006, 396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Great news.
I hope that OS will learn their lesson for overpricing their routes.



wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 17):
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 16):
Cool, then skip 90% of the airlines

LOL thats true!

In US maybe, in Europe ii is not.


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4631 times:

The IATA airlines lost several billion Euros annually in the past years...not only in the US. In Europe I know only easyJet and Ryanair in the low fare sector who operate with sustainable profits.

In Central Europe in fact noone runs with a profit, neither Wizz nor Centralwings nor Smartwings etc.

It is a fact that SkyEurope loses money too. IT doesn't mean that we need to bitch against the company everytime this name is mentioned.

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 20):
In Central Europe in fact noone runs with a profit, neither Wizz nor Centralwings nor Smartwings etc.

Can you give us a link to Wizzair's results?


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

You know exactly that WizzAir does not release their results.

It's an open secret that they don't make a cent.



none
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 22):
You know exactly that WizzAir does not release their results.

If you don't know their results then don't post it. Your assumptions may be wrong.


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4121 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

WizzAir needed a financial investment of 25 mio. Euros just 7 months after take off in May 2004, otherwise they would have disappeared after just a few months. Since then they have started tons of routes that need months if not years to generate profits. If you look at their fares you will notice that a lot of tickets go away for 0.01 Euros even in the not too distant future.

I like WizzAir as much as I like SkyEurope but we need to be realistic. They are simply not able to generate profits right now. Maybe in some years but now it is not possible because the airlines are currently spending way too much money for building up their routes. And you are damn right, it is an assumption. If you can prove me wrong with WizzAir-no problem- I am happy about every airline that makes a profit.

Cheers



none
25 Post contains images INNflight : All SkyEurope operations from INN as well as SZG will be ceased by the beginning of the 2007 summer schedule. Operations in Austria will exclusively
26 Panamandy : honestly i dont see the demand to those destinations, if there was a need they would have generated much more pax ex bts ! they should fly to the balk
27 Danny : Yes, that was in 2004 and since then they must be doing reasonably well as no additional capital was needed. SkyEurope had to raise money few times a
28 Beaucaire : In my opinion FlyNiki ,Air Berlin and AUA will feel some heat,although many flights will be operated on a reduced frequency-unatractive for business-t
29 VORFMD : The Question is how much it will hurt BTS. A whole Bunch of Austrians won´t travel via BTS now, as the can go directly from Vienna with "their" NE.
30 Humberside : Sky Europe do ofer some connections - most notably at Bratislava from from Kosice Big blow for INN to loose its only LoCo (unless VIE-INN starts)
31 JoKeR : And expect BEG to join the stable from VIE next year as well, as soon as "Open-Skies" kicks in...
32 Jano : That might very easily happen. But, I think BTS is saturated already (no enought terminal space, at peak times it looks like a zoo) and no reasonable
33 Kohflot : Management at Welcome Air would likely rather think it's a huge victory! They've been quite vocal in their distaste for SkyEurope's business practice
34 Humberside : Do you know why Welcome Air have had a problem with SkyEurope since they dont compete with each other?
35 Bestwestern : No point at all. Many small LCC's that spread themselves so thinly around bases have no ability whatsoever to gain economies of scale from that base
36 Kohflot : One could probably make the argument that the two do compete. Welcome Air operates from Innsbruck to Rotterdam while SkyEurope operates Innsbruck-Ams
37 BestWestern : Or perhaps SkyEurope didnt do any advertising. They are an unknown brand.
38 Joost : The only flight currently offered ex INN is AMS and I can say they're not an unknown brand in the Netherlands. They do good and efficient advertising
39 Post contains images RJ100 : It would be interesting to know the deal between NE and Vienna airport. Wasn't VIE interested to buy BTS airport to establish a low cost hub there? F
40 BestWestern : Thats fine for BSL, which is not a 'hub' for the airline. Easy are successful in BSL because they spend a ton on advertising when they launched, and
41 RJ100 : Thanks BestWestern for your input. I know that you know what you are speaking about so I always like to hear your statements. Still, I wish NE good lu
42 Flyorski : I thought SkyEurope was the Ryanair, of Eastern Europe. Looks like they want to move west. Will face some stiff competition I'd imagine.
43 Humberside : INN is also popular in the summer, at least from the UK. There are quite a few charters operated every Saturday from UK regional airports by Austrian
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