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PBI - Possible New Routes?  
User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4189 times:

Great to see US LAS-PBI boookings doing well. FINALLY a flight to a hub out west. It has been sorely needed here. Question is, will anyone else follow suit?

Possibilities:

F9 DEN-PBI
UA DEN-PBI ( Ted?)
US PHX-PBI?
WN PHX-PBI
WN LAS-PBI
WN HOU -PBI ( not really west, but man it would be nice!)
DL SLC-PBI

Thoughts anyone?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

You have CO doing PBI-IAH (900 miles west of PBI) and then anyplace west you mention non stop.


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting PBIflyguy (Thread starter):
Great to see US LAS-PBI boookings doing well. FINALLY a flight to a hub out west. It has been sorely needed here. Question is, will anyone else follow suit?

Possibilities:

F9 DEN-PBI
UA DEN-PBI ( Ted?)
US PHX-PBI?
WN PHX-PBI
WN LAS-PBI
WN HOU -PBI ( not really west, but man it would be nice!)
DL SLC-PBI

Thoughts anyone?



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
You have CO doing PBI-IAH (900 miles west of PBI) and then anyplace west you mention non stop.

You also have AA via Dallas-Fort Worth. However, you happen to be right. As a Boynton Beach resident myself, however, I can tell you that nearly everybody in my family who flies West of the Mississippi River usually ends up flying out of and in to Fort Lauderdale, due to price and/or the lack of a reasonable connection out of West Palm Beach. But how it took so long for us at PBI to get IAD service on UA, and that we still don't have Denver service on any carrier, is simply remarkable.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Not to mention AA PBI-DFW and anywhere else, DL PBI-ATL and anywhere else, though UA covers more of the west.

I think he wants to have more options and more non-stops. Everyone's dream for their airport, right?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 2):
that we still don't have Denver service on any carrier, is simply remarkable.

I think you should e-mail United ops about that one. If you know anyone who works for UA, have them forward a letter to HQ.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3413 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

while certainly not 'out west' there is sufficient demand for someone to look at doing PVD-PBI. WN or NK seem to be logical options...

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3974 times:
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Hey, IF Las Vegas works from PBI why not LAX ? With all the LAX flights out of FLL and MIA, PBI could use some LAX of its own. Delta or AA would be the twological candidates, AA since they fly from FLL and MIA & Delta since they do FLL-LAX.

User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting PBIflyguy (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-PBI
UA DEN-PBI ( Ted?)
US PHX-PBI?
WN PHX-PBI
WN LAS-PBI
WN HOU -PBI ( not really west, but man it would be nice!)
DL SLC-PBI

Unless SW gets rafts and lifejackets on their airplanes, that would be a long route having to hug the coast. CO and AA cut right across the Gulf to get to IAH and DFW, and so will the US flight to get to LAS.

The only carrier that could possibly start PBI-LAX is DL. For years they operated a LAX-TPA-PBI flight in both directions that only went away with the introduction of Song. If US had any guts they would, but with the absence of a catering company at PBI, the timings would be similar to the LAS flight.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3942 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Phllax (Reply 7):
Unless SW gets rafts and lifejackets on their airplanes, that would be a long route having to hug the coast.


WN has lifejackets on all their planes now to allow short cuts up to 150nm (IIRC) off the gulf and east coast such as MSY-TPA, HOU-TPA/MCO/FLL, LAS-TPA/MCO, FLL-ISP etc.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineJetBlueNYFL From United States of America, joined May 2006, 274 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3896 times:

jetBlue:

Daily nonstop service between Newburgh, NY (SWF) and West Palm Beach, FL (PBI) starts January 05, 2007.



jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
User currently offlineDl4evr From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 3855 times:

We definitely need some more transcons. FLL is quite a shlep from West Palm Beach, usually taking well over an hour. PBI-LAX on DL would be a great idea, considering DL is PBI's most dominant carrier and they're building up a hub at LAX.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
Hey, IF Las Vegas works from PBI why not LAX ?

With somewhat different "money" in the two regions, I don't know if a transcon O&D flight is going to work.

Sure I and my Cousin do LAX-PBI a couple times a year, but unfortunately, airlines don't run flights just for me. I connect in IAH (or sometimes ATL), while he flies AA nonstop to MIA and then rents a car...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN864DA From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 259 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Remember PBI also serves northern Palm Beach county such as Palm Beach Gardens and Jupiter as well as Martin and St Lucie counties. These areas are heavily populated and FLL is a long drive away. Only those living in southern Palm Beach county would find FLL convenient enough. In my experience, fares don't vary much between the two; sometimes PBI is even cheaper.

UA already has a minimal presence in PBI with only one daily A320 to ORD (downgraded from a B757). DEN would be pretty much out of the question. IF an airline were to operate to a western hub, it would be DL to SLC, once daily. A great majority of PBI traffic is to the northeast, with DL, B6, and CO all major players. Those going out west are better off just connecting in ATL either with DL or with FL.

N864DA


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

UA has tripled service...grin. 1 ORD and 2 IAD now...all Ted.

User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

The question becomes - regardless of catchment area - how much non-east coast/midwest business is there for airlines out of PBI... honestly?

Yes, the catchemnt area for PBI is large and for folks out of anything north of say.. downtown.. FLL is quite a schlep. It's even quite a haul at the wrong time of the day from southern parts of the county (Boynton Beach I'm most familiar with, having grown up there). Has Martin/St Lucie/Okeechobee/Indian River grown so large with so may business that would require travel that it would be worth it to add additional nonstop service that can't be absorbed into the current connecting service? Seems to me that they would reopen VRB to service first if the needs of those north of Jupiter were so poorly underserved and the demand was so great.

Has there suddenly been a diaspora from California/Arizona/Oregon/Washington to West Palm Beach that would allow for a large enough market? The answer is likely not.

DL has always been a major player out of PBI for a couple of reasons - they offer service nonstop to the northeast, and anything else they can route through ATL - which is close enough with enough service that pretty much everywhere is covered. I honestly think that if there was enough call for a market the service would be there.

I agree that it sucks. I also agree that there are a large number of people in the area, but I would have to say that the needs of those people that would spend to fly nonstop have already been covered.

I will say, however, that as FLL comes closer and closer to capacity things will probably change.


User currently offlineN864DA From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 259 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 14):
Seems to me that they would reopen VRB to service first if the needs of those north of Jupiter were so poorly underserved and the demand was so great.

Jupiter is less than 15 miles from PBI; VRB is about a full 65 miles to the north from there. I doubt VRB could support commercial air service. There is no terminal and the runways are too narrow. Folks up there have PBI, MCO, and MLB as viable options. VRB is about 35 miles from MLB, with sufficient service on DL. If anything, we might see FL starting service up there as the fares out of MLB have been quite high.

There is very little business traffic in that region. However, many snowbirds have places in the Stuart/Port St Lucie areas. They have plenty of options at PBI, with nonstop service to even HPN with FL and SWF with B6. I-95 in that area doesn't have nearly the traffic that, say from Boynton Beach to FLL has. The many leisure travelers to Boca Raton/Delray Beach have FLL and PBI at equal distance and both are very well served with nonstops to the northeast and midwest.

Business traffic is strong in the Boca - West Palm - Jupiter area but it will always be the leisure traffic with the upper hand.

N864DA


User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting N864DA (Reply 15):
There is very little business traffic in that region. However, many snowbirds have places in the Stuart/Port St Lucie areas. They have plenty of options at PBI, with nonstop service to even HPN with FL and SWF with B6. I-95 in that area doesn't have nearly the traffic that, say from Boynton Beach to FLL has. The many leisure travelers to Boca Raton/Delray Beach have FLL and PBI at equal distance and both are very well served with nonstops to the northeast and midwest.

Business traffic is strong in the Boca - West Palm - Jupiter area but it will always be the leisure traffic with the upper hand.

That was exactly my point... take a look at the rest of my post.

As to the airport at VRB.. there used to be traffic up there but the area simply couldn't support it. This goes back a good number of years and things haven't really changed. PSL/Stuart/Vero is primarily a snowbird area and for what they are willing to spend it's going to be one of my aforementioned already established PBI routes. The question originally asked was about opening up new markets. My other point is that the catchment area, though large, won't support it. It's not the idea that there's not enough people.. there's not enough money or interest to support new markets.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3682 times:
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Southern PB County has the best of both FLL and PBI with in 20 miles and MIA within 50 miles of Central Boca. PBI still needs anonstop to LAX, Califoenia's biggest city.

User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Why would PBI need nonstop service to LAX when it is readily available from both FLL and MIA? Are there REALLY enough passengers to justify that market when a reasonably close-by alternate already exists?

My question is more - is it worth an airline to dedicate an aircraft to that route because.. is the business really there?

Who would you expect to fly it?


User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Thanks for the repsonses guys, seems I failed to clarify something in my original post.

I'm fully aware of CO to Houston and AA to DFW. Yuppers, we sure can go places out west, but look at the pricing. Perfect example : when DL dropped PBI-DFW AA jumped right on and raised the fares. The flights on CO and AA are always VERY full, far from affordable at most times. Just ONE WN flight to one of their western hubs would be great. Any flights out west on them (originating in PBI) go through TPA. The last flights home are fairly early, so if you have any delays, you end up missing the TPA-PBI leg. Lord knows it has happened to me a few times.

As the crow flies FLL is not too far away, with no traffic its a reasonable drive. Y'all who don't live here have not factored in ground time. With seasonal traffic FLL can be one hour and 30 minutes away. Why go there when we have a beautiful facility at PBI?

I never thought of PBI-LAX, I always thought PBI-SLC would make more sense. Especially with US coming in from LAS. maybe DL will figure out that ATL is no fun to connect through.


User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting Phllax (Reply 7):
Unless SW gets rafts and lifejackets on their airplanes, that would be a long route having to hug the coast. CO and AA cut right across the Gulf to get to IAH and DFW, and so will the US flight to get to LAS.

WN already does TPA-PHX and TPA-LAS. If they flew from PBI they would come right over the coast around the TPA area. So coast hugging is already normal for them.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
I don't know if a transcon O&D flight is going to work.

Maybe not from PBI, but a SAN-MCO daily could certainly survive off of O&D alone.


User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting PBIflyguy (Reply 19):
As the crow flies FLL is not too far away, with no traffic its a reasonable drive. Y'all who don't live here have not factored in ground time. With seasonal traffic FLL can be one hour and 30 minutes away. Why go there when we have a beautiful facility at PBI?

There's no arguement there.. unless you are talking to my dad.. who seems to think that you can get to FLL from anywhere south of about Lake Worth in 25 minutes regardless of time of day.. in the 50's maybe.

I'm also not arguing that PBI is not a beautiful facility or that hit suffers from a lack of capacity. My only point is that in order for service to be beefed up, the market has to be there. I'm suggesting that people would love to be able to fly out of PBI but that it's unlikely that an airline is going to dedicate aircraft to a market that will (unfortunately) not break even.

Let's consider the travelling demographic for PBI for a second.. a good number of the people I've seen go through there are older.. usually retirees. If they can get something nonstop to the northeast, they're happy as a clam. If they're going somewhere where they can shave $50 off by driving down to FLL, they'll time their drive as to make sure the hour and 30 minutes. I'm also suggesting that there is not a large enough business base to make a case for increased service out of PBI except maybe to the traditional markets. How much business does Pratt generate? Enough to generate enough high value tickets so as to make the market viable?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see PBI grow to a point where a number of flights could be put on to these markets but I just don't see - from a business standpoint - where it will happen. I, for one, am familiar with the pain it is to head down to FLL. I end up having to fly there far too often to get to see my family.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3486 times:
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Over two million people live in Palm Beach county. While Boston and New York are the two main markets, LAX has nonstop service from smaller markets on the east coast or mid west. Hartford has to be a smaller market then PBI and they have nonstop service the west coast.

User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

Hartford has a huge insurance and banking industry base. There's enough business travel to sustain a flight to LAX. There's also the surrounding business areas such as Springfield.

25 MCOflyer : Agreed. I put that on Jetblues what city should we serve list. I think B6 could do a PBI-SAN run. MCOflyer
26 PBIflyguy : Excellent points AirScoot. Lots of retirees for sure...... but lots of business travel too. Especially with all of the corporations moving into the no
27 Ikramerica : And LAX-LHR works too. What does SAN-MCO have to do with expanding service to PBI, an airport that is 2 hours away from MCO without traffic, and a mu
28 PanAm330 : Somebody said something about a transcon O&D flight not working; I just gave an example of a yet-to-be-served route pair that could survive off of O&
29 WDBRR : As a former airline guy, I always think of all the people in wheelchairs lined up waiting to get onto the planes when I think of PBI. someone once ca
30 Post contains images Sprout5199 : Not much since they moved almost everything to Conn. I think when Scripts(in Jupiter) gets going then there will be more flights to LAX, plus you hav
31 B752OS : Transcon flights can work on O&D alone. Look at every single transcon flight out of BOS, those rely solely on O&D. The same is the case for MCO and t
32 MAH4546 : Miami-Los Angeles has a larger local market than Philadelphia-Los Angeles, even when you exclude PBI. It is the 5th busiest trans-con route from LA a
33 B752OS : I believe there are more daily passengers flying between Boston and Los Angeles than there between Atlanta and Los Angeles. Very true, which is why A
34 MAH4546 : Yes, actually, my error. Not by much, but it is larger. I forgot to include LGB in the Boston count, which gives BOS the edge. Yup. Combined with lar
35 B752OS : I am not saying that without connecting traffic, MIA-LAX would not work. I am saying that the increase in frequencies and using larer aircraft is hel
36 MAH4546 : No, that is local only. Miami-Los Angeles, excluding the other LA area airports, has over 2,100 daily local passengers (AA carries about 66%; Delta a
37 B752OS : Also, you are including both FLL and PBI. If you want to do things that way, I will add in PVD and MHT making the local passengers over 2,900.
38 MAH4546 : I am including FLL, but not including PBI (which would add another 150 or so). If you want to include PBI, then I guess it would be fair to include P
39 JetBlueORD : ORD - PBI, I like it. You?
40 B752OS : I don't insult South Florida airports as much as you think. I came into this thread to show support of PBI-LAX and other flights. I travel to South F
41 MAH4546 : Yes, you were, which nobody argued. However, you consistently try to manipulate the numbers for Miami-Los Angeles in order to try to "proove" that th
42 B752OS : When did I change the numbers? There is no need to change the numbers to prove my point that there is more demand between Boston and Los Angeles than
43 MAH4546 : Because they should be added together, considering their proximity and their use by consumers in Miami interchangeable. Just like DAL and DFW, IAH an
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