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Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion  
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15663 times:

In an internal publication, Air France announced part of its expansion plan for the period 2007 to 2009.

Two new long haul destinations : the "return" to DFW and the long waited SJO (San Jose de Costa Rica) nonstop from CDG.

Other interesting informations are :

North America :
LAX : 3 x Daily
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM
YUL : 4 x Daily

South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

Africa & Middle East
THR : 1 x Daily
JNB : 2 x Daily
NKC : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
NDJ : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
JED : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
RUH : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE

Asia

PVG : 2 x Daily
CAN : 6 x Weekly
HKG : 2 x Daily
MAA : 5 x Weekly
BLR : 1 x Daily
NRT : 3 x Daily, then 2 x Daily with the A380

AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.

120 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15604 times:

Interesting list there and thanks for sharing.

Some of the additions in this announcement have already been loaded in the schedules for the current winter and upcoming summer offerings. The additional JFK rotation with daylight eastbound sector has been loaded for next summer with A332. The double daily GRU service is being introduced as we speak. A fourth daily frequency to YUL - probably only during the summer - doesn't come as a surpise, seeing as how this route is absolutely packed during the summer months.

Some surprise at a return to DFW, though. I though that AF would be pretty content by only serving IAH, and that other US gateways, such as SEA or DEN might have gotten priority over DFW. It also seems that AF is not returning to CVG next summer, and that the CDG CVG route will be served by just one daily DL-operated B763.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

So no third destination in Brazil after all, but instead a reinforcement during the peak months of the existing and very popular CDG GIG route. I'm pretty sure this additional flight is going to operate as a daylight southbound sector, just like the existing second daily CDG GRU flight.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Asia

PVG : 2 x Daily
CAN : 6 x Weekly
HKG : 2 x Daily
MAA : 5 x Weekly
BLR : 1 x Daily
NRT : 3 x Daily, then 2 x Daily with the A380

HKG is being upgraded to 13 weekly, from the current 10, at the start of the summer season already, so no surprise there. PVG will be needing the extra premium capacity when the current 10 weekly flights will have reverted to the retrofitted B772s. I am surprised at the prospected increase of CAN, as the Europe-CAN routes are generally not doing as well as many people believe.

In India, BLR is already served daily as we speak, and I would expect that the current A332 on that route would be upgraded to something larger at some point. A further building of the relatively young MAA service seems like a logical next step.

I am surprised not to see SIN in your list. The current CDG SIN B77W service is doing very well, not the least because of the successful QF cooperation for interline connections to a range of gateways in Australia. As such, I would have expected additional SIN service at some point, likely to be scheduled with a daylight westbound sector, just like the additional HKG services.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15575 times:
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Go Santiago! What is the current route/frequencies of CDG-SCL?

I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15554 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?

The "weirdest" thing is that it's no longer a direct flight from CDG. There will be separate CDG-LAX and LAX-Tahiti flights. But then again, from a passenger's point of view it doesn't change anything since you would have to disembark and embark at LAX on a direct flight, too.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15437 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Two new long haul destinations : the "return" to DFW and the long waited SJO (San Jose de Costa Rica) nonstop from CDG.

thank god....I can now have the choice between IB and AF. Its excellent news for SJO . however its too bad KL won't restart the route.
Do you know when its due to start? do you know what aircraft will be used on the route?

Regards

BM



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6807 posts, RR: 77
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15394 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.

Were any dates mentioned? And what about the last remaining A320-100 (13 are currently in operation)?


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15257 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

Thanks for sharing Pierre. Good to see AF confirming what we all times discuss here, the condition and demand to run a second flight. I believe in the future AF can even run at least 10 weekly flights year round.
Also interesting to see AF development in SCL !
Who's next, another flight to EZE ?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
So no third destination in Brazil after all, but instead a reinforcement during the peak months of the existing and very popular CDG GIG route. I'm pretty sure this additional flight is going to operate as a daylight southbound sector, just like the existing second daily CDG GRU flight.

Also will provide a very good alternative on AF network as we do not keep a service CDG-GIG daily-light. It will be the 3rd GIG-CDG daily flight, amazing how France become a major player on Brazilian market. With this new seasonal flight (in the future), will be 7 daily flights! Only EZE, SCL (closer destinations) and MIA keep more services than CDG.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
It also seems that AF is not returning to CVG next summer,

This is confirmed.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
I am surprised not to see SIN in your list. The current CDG SIN B77W service is doing very well, not the least because of the successful QF cooperation for interline connections to a range of gateways in Australia. As such, I would have expected additional SIN service at some point, likely to be scheduled with a daylight westbound sector, just like the additional HKG services.

True. It was mentionned a few months ago in the same publication that AF was thinking about the A380 on CDG-SIN to face the increasing demand,thanks to the excellent results of the codeshare with QF. A possible second frequency on certain days was also a mentionned, waiting for the A380 but I am not sure about the AF's traffic rights and the bilateral agreement on that line.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
What is the current route/frequencies of CDG-SCL?

SCL is served 4 x Weekly nonstop (B772ER) during this winter.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?

No. PPT is now served 4 x Weekly (A343) instead of 3 x Weekly (B744). Frequencies are planned to be added to compete with ATN and if the demand requires.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 4):
Its excellent news for SJO .
Do you know when its due to start? do you know what aircraft will be used on the route?

No dates indication yet. But I'll keep you informed ...  Wink
Aircraft is most likely to be A343.


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Photo © Daniel Piotrowski



User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14980 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
Aircraft is most likely to be A343.

just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14928 times:

What a/c does AF use to DEL during the summer?? When i flew in June 2004, it was an A343, is it still this one?? I know for the winter they switch to the B744!


come fly with me
User currently offlineYULspotter From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14894 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
YUL : 4 x Daily



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
A fourth daily frequency to YUL - probably only during the summer - doesn't come as a surprise, seeing as how this route is absolutely packed during the summer months.

From what I have heard, the fourth flight is for the summer months. Out of the 4 flights, AF is planning to send 2 x 744's daily during the summer peak. It's no wonder AF is planning to use the A380 in it's CDG-YUL route.

YULspotter


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14794 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777

Nothing official yet, but it should be the A343 as I don't think there will be enough "Premium Class" demand to operate a B772ER, at least during the first months following the "openning".

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 9):
What a/c does AF use to DEL during the summer?? When i flew in June 2004, it was an A343, is it still this one?? I

Yes. A343 during the summer to DEL.


User currently offlineFoxXray From France, joined May 2005, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14582 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM

That's cool ! AF will have 7 daily flights to NYC (6 to JFK and 1 to EWR) !


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14538 times:

Thank you for a very interesting update.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM

I am very curious to see how this works out.....daylight fights to Europe and late evening departures from Europe are difficult proposiitons.....and airlines have avoided these types of services. Daylight services in recent years have been limited to routes into business heavy Heathrow airport. Years ago, TWA had a JFK-CDG daylight flight (with a L1011 I believe) that came and went a few times depending upon season.....but that was then and this is now, AF should be able to make this flight work (I assume it will be an A332 service) that will in a certain way reflect the discontinued Concorde services.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Asia

Its good to see AF offering new services and expanding its presence in Asia.....there was a period where AF lagged behind other European carriers with respect to this part of the world. AF is now catching up - good news.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.

First BA and now AF are planning to retire the oldest members of the A32X family.....the early build A320-100s. It will be interesting to see if any other carrier will acquire these ""unusual"" airplanes, or if they will simply be broken up for parts at the conclusion of their service for AF.


User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14515 times:

I don't understand why they don't fly to Australia / New Zealand?

KLM stopped and also from the Skyteam only Korean Air is flying to Australia and they have not a good connection if you want to fly from Europe.

You have to stay over for one day.


User currently offlineCXB744 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 3):
The "weirdest" thing is that it's no longer a direct flight from CDG. There will be separate CDG-LAX and LAX-Tahiti flights. But then again, from a passenger's point of view it doesn't change anything since you would have to disembark and embark at LAX on a direct flight, too.

There is one direct flight to Tahiti from CDG on Thursdays and coming from Tahiti on Mondays. This is when they cycle in and out the A343 that plys between LAX & PPT. (Source: www.airfrance.us)



What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14434 times:

Quoting Skippy777 (Reply 14):
I don't understand why they don't fly to Australia / New Zealand?

There have been many threads on this topic, some in recent days....Europe-Australia service has been dropped by almost all European carriers because:

1. The route is long and ties up airplanes for days on end.

2. The yeilds are not good considering the distance flown.

3. There is limited F and J class traffic.

4. Its easier and more effecient to fly from Europe to Australia via an Aisan hub city.....depart from the European airport of choice, transfer in Asia, continue to Australian city of choice and vice versa.

5. Code shares with Asian airlines have relieved the need for European airlines to put their own metal into Australia......AF works with QF for example.

6. The only very profitable routes between Europe and Australia are London to SYD/MEL.....even FRA/SYD is marginal. There is a reason why QF dropped service to cities like CDG an FCO, why LH, AF, KL, etc no longer fly to Australia, and even Austrian is dropping service to Austrlaia after years of flyint this niche route under the Lauda banner.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14382 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
I am very curious to see how this works out.....daylight fights to Europe and late evening departures from Europe are difficult proposiitons.....and airlines have avoided these types of services. Daylight services in recent years have been limited to routes into business heavy Heathrow airport. Years ago, TWA had a JFK-CDG daylight flight (with a L1011 I believe) that came and went a few times depending upon season.....but that was then and this is now, AF should be able to make this flight work (I assume it will be an A332 service) that will in a certain way reflect the discontinued Concorde services.

The late departure from CDG will be a success, for sure.
The daylight flight to CDG will land at 9:00PM and will offer a perfect connection to the late AF departure flights particularly to Africa (and Oil destinations) and Asia.
The flight will be indeed operated by an A332.

CDG. 9:00PM ---> JFK.11:15PM AF004 - A332 - DAILY

JFK. 7:50AM ---> CDG. 9:00PM AF005 - A332 - DAILY


User currently offlineTomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 11):
Nothing official yet, but it should be the A343 as I don't think there will be enough "Premium Class" demand to operate a B772ER, at least during the first months following the "openning".

Thanks for some of the best news we have had this year for SJO! I guess its a new year and a new flight!

I would be happy with the A343 but a 772ER would be one of the best things that happened to SJO, after we have not had a visit from one of those since 2001 back when BA brought them.

Any idea when its going to start? Hopefully it will be soon and hopefully the arrival/departure times are released soon too.

Thanks for this great update!
Tomas.


User currently offlinePbb152 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14271 times:

Any Idea what a/c they will use to DFW? 777, 340, or 330?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14202 times:

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 19):
Any Idea what a/c they will use to DFW? 777, 340, or 330?

An A343 or A332 I would assume.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13919 times:

AF seem to be using their 332's on route prooving, to destinations such as BLR, so we can expect the same to DFW - interestingly they are using 343's to MAA, when DL used the 763


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13871 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
First BA and now AF are planning to retire the oldest members of the A32X family.....the early build A320-100s. It will be interesting to see if any other carrier will acquire these ""unusual"" airplanes, or if they will simply be broken up for parts at the conclusion of their service for AF.



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 5):
Were any dates mentioned? And what about the last remaining A320-100 (13 are currently in operation)?

Probably a "typo" ... or is it again the "legend" of F-GFKQ (msn 02) supposed to be converted into a -200 ?

6 A320-100 are indeed based at Orly (config = 172 Y), previously operated by Air Inter :

msn 10 = F-GGEA delivered on 17/06/1988
msn 12 = F-GGEB delivered on 05/08/1988
msn 13 = F-GGEC delivered on 29/09/1988
msn 16 = F-GGEE delivered on 03/03/1989
msn 04 = F-GGEF delivered on 07/07/1989 previously used by Airbus Ind. for test flights .
msn 03 = F-GGEG delivered on 20/10/1989 previously used by Airbus Ind. for test flights.

Based at CDG, delivered to Air France directly :

msn 05 = F-GFKA delivered on 26/03/1988
msn 07 = F-GFKB delivered on 18/05/1988
msn 14 = F-GFKD delivered on 10/10/1988
msn 19 = F-GFKE delivered on 29/10/1988
msn 20 = F-GFKF delivered on 20/02/1989
msn 21 = F-GFKG delivered on 17/02/1989

and the oldest A320-100 in service :

msn 02 = F-GFKQ delivered to AF on 08/02/1991. Previously used by Airbus Industries.


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Two aircraft are missing in this list  tombstone :

msn 09, F-GFKC delivered to AF on June 23rd 1988, crashed in Habsheim during a demo flight 3 days later on June 26th 1988.

msn 15, F-GGED delivered to Air Inter on 22/12/1988, crashed while approaching SXB, operating flight IT5148 LYS-SXB on Jan.20th 1992.

As you can see, all these venerable A320 will be around 20 years old when they will be retired by AF ... to be replaced by A321 !


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13845 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 21):
AF seem to be using their 332's on route prooving, to destinations such as BLR, so we can expect the same to DFW - interestingly they are using 343's to MAA, when DL used the 763

The A332 offers more Business Class seats : 40J / 179Y

The A343 are configured with "only" 30J/261Y or 36J/236Y.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13673 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777

Hey, they are starting the route and the 777s are only for very premium-heavy routes....give them a break....

I canñt believe how much flights YUL gets, it´s plain impressive. AC is missing the boat on that one.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
25 Post contains images LTU932 : YES!!! Finally a carrier that has decided to challenge IB on the Europe-SJO market. I reckon, an A343, especially those with 30J seats would be the r
26 Paneuropean : Wow, impressive changes. Are all these Kennedy flights CDG bound or are there also flights from ORY. I am not familiar with their ORD and ORY schedule
27 Humberside : All US flights from CDG. Only transatlantic flights from Orly at to the French teritories in the Carribbean
28 USADreamliner : WOW!! SCL NONSTOP! Now Iberia have a serious competitor to Europe from Chile.
29 Paneuropean : Obviously, I meant CDG is ORD. Surprise to me as well AF returning to DFW. There was a recent topic on this one. Given AF(KL) little chance flying to
30 Vincewy : Besides NRT and YUL, what are other possible A380 destinations planned by AF?
31 FlySSC : NRT, YUL, JFK, PEK, LAX AF A380 deliveries : 3 first a/c during the summer 2009. A total fleet of 6 A380 during summer 2010, 8 in 2001, 10 in 2012.
32 SKY1 : HI FlySSC! What about CDG-EZE? might be more weekly flights? There will be new destinations such as CPT or KUL, or this is only for the KLM network?
33 Cba : Interesting news. Sorry to pose a naive question, but can someone explain to me exactly what the A319ER Dedicate is?
34 FLYYUL : I still dont understand why Air France hasnt given Orlando-Paris a chance. There should be a fair level of corporate between the two cities, given dis
35 Post contains images HT : Long range A319 employed on (long) routes with premium traffic; the most "luxurious" in AF's stable has 79 seats of which 32 are Business class. IIRC
36 MAH4546 : Corportate traffic goes to Burbank, not Orlando. Not for the French, especially with Disneyland Paris in their own backyard. Orlando doesn't receive
37 FlySSC : It's a Long range version of the A319. "Dedicate" is the name given by AF to this long haul product. The aircraft are equipped with 28J / 54Y. Its en
38 Post contains links SKY1 : It's curious: 3 years ago it had 82 seats, 4 seats less in Business Class (28 l'Espace Affaires, 54 in Tempo)
39 Mir : I thought AF4 and AF5 were the EWR flights. Are those getting renumbered? -Mir
40 BigJimFX : Exciting to see another piece of European metal on the ground @ DFW.... Any Idea when the service will begin?.... Frequency?....
41 FlySSC : Right. AF004/005 used to be the EWR flight. It is now AF018/019.
42 Laxintl : Air France has the LA-Paris route to its own with the exception of Air Tahiti Nui which runs it daily in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter. Over
43 RCS763AV : LAN.... Does AF have plans to fly the A380 maybe from 2010 to GIG or CCS???? (very high density routes)
44 1981 : I think DAILY flights to some countries it's not good because the aircrafts dont have good load factors DAILY
45 Stevens91 : Great news !!!!! 5x week to MAA .... I guess two A340 are needed for the rotations, am I right ?
46 HB-IWC : The CDG SCL nonstop flights were reintroduced last winter (2005-2006) and are back this winter, with a five times weekly B772ER service. Next summer,
47 Jimyvr : SJO? Where will they get the feed? Especially TACA and Air France cancelled the Central American codeshare 2 months ago.
48 HB-IWC : I was thinking that as well. In the past, there had been rumblings of a new KL/AF route to Central America, and for a while PTY was part of the plan,
49 LTU932 : SJO is a major focus city for CM. It has at least some 4 to 5 daily flights, some of those being stopovers, which might turn out to be advantageous f
50 Jfk777 : Air France to JFK is clearing showing a need for a bigger airplane. AF should fly mostly 744's to JFK and Montreal. Tokyo with 3 777 also needs a heav
51 HB-IWC : The problem there is that the B744s are mostly configured in a 2-class layout and that JFK clearly needs more a premium configuration than the one on
52 DABVF : We have the second daily FRA-EWR already in this winter timetable. The "standard flight" LH 402 with A340-300 and the "additional flight" LH 482 with
53 FLYSSC : The career of the B744 is close to the end at AF, at least on the premium routes, with 16 a/c in service and only 13 by the end of next year. The B77
54 Post contains images OHLHD : Which aircraft will fly the second GIG? I assumethat the B744 will stay but what´s the second? 28 flights to Brazil! That´s fantastic!
55 FlySSC : AF is doing great in L.A and LAX is among the most probable destination for AF's A380 . Lax is doing much better than SFO, stuck with its DAILY A343
56 Dutchjet : Daily service is required in most markets to attract premium passengers and business passengers who pay the highest fares......such passengers find l
57 Paneuropean : Odd, but thanks anyway, Laxintl.. Delta should decide if they use this nice terminal at CVG as focus city or (intl.)hub. In other words. Will they de
58 Dutchjet : But consider that DL is now redeveloping its JFK European gateway in a very big way......after years of essentially ignoring JFK, DL redisovered this
59 FoxXray : From ORY Corsair has a daily flight to YUL (during spring and summer) and l'Avion will have the first regular flight to the US (EWR) since around 8 y
60 Paneuropean : You mean it affects CVG negative ?! But the whole principle of the of airlineclustering is leading passengers through hubs to their final destination
61 Legacyins : It is called seasonal adjustment. Who cares if LAX is doing batter than SFO. Service is service.
62 SK601 : No, DL and KL are not codesharing on transatlantic routes. KL/DL have a codeshare agreement for domestic flights in the US and for routes in Europe,
63 Post contains images Goldorak : AF loads and yields on CDG-SFO are probably better since withdrawal of UA on this route, aren't they ?
64 Paneuropean : Sorry, I thought they agreed to do so next summer. JFK/ATL. Still that makes the hubs important at the other sides of the Atlantic. So is or isn't DL
65 LAXdude1023 : Yeah TN flies 5 times a week. LAX is a bigger market. There is a lot of demand from LAX-CDG. There are certain markets in Europe in SFO that do bette
66 UpperDeck79 : " target=_blank>www.airfrance.us) Even though it's the same aircraft on Thursdays coming from Paris, they are two separate flights: CDG-LAX is AF74, L
67 FLYYUL : Why would AF launch a 4th Montreal flight? What is the incremental system gain for AF with this frequency? They can upgauge AF348/349 to larger equipm
68 LAXdude1023 : When will the new routes be announced publicly?
69 FoxXray : Adding a frequency is better than upgrade one of the 3 others flight to a bigger plane.
70 FLYYUL : Why?
71 USPIT10L : KL never flew to DFW in the first place. The only city in Texas KL has ever served is IAH. Personally, I'd also like to see AF start CDG-MSP, but NW
72 Paneuropean : He meant San José (Costa Rica). It's very interesting though that neither KL nor AA is flying from DFW to AMS.
73 LAXdude1023 : I would think this is a route AA might be interested in. Although I think DFW-BRU would be in the cards first.
74 Dutchjet : AMS is difficult with yeilds.....good connecting traffic at AMS and reasonable demand keep the KL/NW flights filled, but premium demand and yeilds ju
75 Post contains images Paneuropean : I flew AMS- ORD v.v. Oct 28/ Nov 16. on UA with only seven first class passengers to ORD. Return flight to AMS was full. I was in coach, though. In a
76 Dutchjet : UA and US dont have problems keeping their AMS flights filled, its the yeilds.....I am sure that you have seen some of the bargain fares offered by D
77 LIPZ : Yes, DL is coming back on AMS-CVG but only 3 x week Jun-Aug. They fly to FCO too.
78 Paneuropean : Thanks LIPZ
79 HB-IWC : I'm pretty certain that any additional CDG GIG flight will operate with an A332/A343 and will operate with a southbound daylight sector, as does the
80 Post contains images Thomasphoto60 : Well good for DFW, just keep your grubby hands off our 12 weekly (IAH) flights Thomas[Edited 2006-12-26 04:06:15]
81 Legacyins : By no means am I suggesting SFO is a bigger market than LAX. It is like comparing apples to oranges. AF did fill those planes with healthy yeilds wit
82 Tomascubero : I have just heard from an unconfirmed source that Air France starts service in February but it is going to be a MIA-SJO-MIA route operated with one of
83 MAH4546 : Sounds very unlikely. Air France has an A320 based in the French Antilies (not Miami) that flies MIA-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY and back, but nothing spare. How
84 Tomascubero : Agree 100% with you, but this was told to a friend of mine which his brother called AF about this and was told that, I find it very unlikely and besi
85 MAH4546 : Iberia no longer offers a first class product. There is pretty much no chance that an AF 772 will fly to San Jose. They are reserved for high-yield,
86 LTU932 : What about the 77W? Do those at CDG have two different configurations or is the fleet configuration wise split between those at CDG and the COI confi
87 AlitaliaMD11 : I disagree and agree at the same time. I feel that having a mix of A332/A343/772/77W/744 daily to JFK is quiet enough to fill each flight to JFK. If
88 MAH4546 : 77W is way to big for San Jose. None the less, the CDG-based ones have First Class, the Orly-based ones do not (or will not, I'm not sure if they are
89 LTU932 : Let's give the route some time to mature once it starts. Eventually, if demand is high enough, we might see not just an increase in frequencies but e
90 Post contains images Stirling : American Airlines already blankets Europe.... It's called OneWorld and British Airways. When I was back there about 3 years ago....I did see the 772
91 MAH4546 : That was right before the Air France began a product differentiation between the 777s and the rest of the fleet. The 777s now have a first class prod
92 FLYYUL : HB-IWC, thank you for this reply. My question becomes, does this new departure allow AF to capture more market share to major destinations within Eur
93 BHMNONREV : This is a very valid issue. Here in Kuwait we see service 5X weekly from KL with an A332 on AMS-KWI, a route I would not consider to be "thin" by any
94 Laxintl : I would not hold my breath for AA to do much with BRU at the moment. Matter of fact, I'd be a little worried about if the station will continue to se
95 HT : Wouldn't that just be a copy of MP's way how they operate AMS - SJO (via MIA/MCO) ?
96 Post contains images Goldorak : ORY-based B773 are clearly flying for several months (not sure exactly when it started). These A/C are equipped in high density Y, then a Y+ cabin ca
97 DernierVirage : They started in service progressively from June (there have been more detailes in previous posts if you need more details). They are clearly a very b
98 Goldorak : I totally agree with you DernierVirage. Nobody will regret these old cramped 743 on long haul COI routes. The new 773 is so great (I didn't take yet
99 DernierVirage : Maybe AF will use the 744 in cases of high capacity, but I am sure that some experts like Fly SSC can confirm his. It is sad that even the 744 is bec
100 FoxXray : I though it was a 744 on the ORY-AJA route this year...?
101 Goldorak : Both 743 and 744 were used, depending on the day. I flew back from AJA on the sunday of the Ascension week end and this day there were 2 rotations do
102 Post contains images Stirling : Who?
103 Laxintl : Baxter International, the Illinois based Fortune-500 global healthcare equipment and supply company whom maintains R&D, sales and marketing along wit
104 Stirling : You are very lucky! Being on the island just to south, I have asked on several occassions what is the biggest aircraft to ever have come to CAG....an
105 RCS763AV : Guys, calm down, SJO is not a world metropoli (im not sating its a town) which can handle AF B777 service, and the route just started. Much more impo
106 LTU932 : Just discussing the possibilities, that's all. When has it started? It's not even bookable yet. I presume the route will start at earliest in October
107 HB-IWC : I would expect any additional CDG YUL rotation to end up in the 10am longhaul departure bank. Such scheduling will provoke improved connectivity for
108 Stirling : Help me out here, COI stands for?
109 Laxintl : Operations to overseas territories in the Caribbean and Indian Ocean.
110 Post contains images Mk777 : Shouldn't COI be CIO-Caribbean and Indian ocean network?? that might have answered your question stirling..if i am right!!!??
111 Post contains links and images FlySSC : CIO in English = Caribbean Indian Ocean COI in French = Caraïbes Océan Indien Firts flight was on June 12th 2006 ORY-PTP F-GSQS is the 5th Orly-bas
112 LTU932 : I believe COI is French. It is indeed Carribean and Indian Ocean, but the abbreviation comes from the French "Caraïbes-Océan indien", hence COI.
113 LipeGIG : Well, seems that AF is really looking to Rio-Paris... after a long time, long discussions... seems that a new daily flight is also confirmed and avail
114 Planemanofnz : How is Malabo going for the Dedicate service?
115 FLYYUL : But this causes a 1600 departure return, on top of their 1730 departure. This also causes a 2 level operation with the 1 gate they are allocated at Y
116 RootsAir : Iberia have fused Business and first class in order to create Business plus! Business plus seems to be one of the very best in its category. However
117 HB-IWC : As expected a daylight southbound operation and completely parallel with the second daily GRU operation. That gives 4 daily Brazil departures for AF
118 Goldorak : I was wondering about CAY but now you gave me the answer. But I wouldn't have thought that CAY could sustain a daily high density 773.
119 Post contains links FlySSC : This is for the summer season only. This flights was already upgraded regularly to a B744 during high season. SSG (Malabo) is doing great with now 4
120 HB-IWC : You are right, and it seems as if KLM will stick to its daily GRU operation. KLM is further in charge of the Peru and Ecuador markets, with nonstop s
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