Taiwan's Economic Daily (member of UDN News) on 25DEC06 is reporting that China Airlines has launched the fleet renewal plan, with Boeing 747-8I likely to be in the winning league.
The airline will hold a special fleet renewal meeting in coming weeks presenting its study report. In mid-January, there will be board meeting discussing the study report.
Sources close to the airline says the airline is likely leaning to order at least 10 747-8I to replace 340-300 and its 2nd generation 747-400 (delivered between 1997-2000), which values at USD$2.5billion
China Airlines spokesperson declined to comment on the reports.
Previously due to the bitter Taiwan and US relations, forced China Airlines to postpone the 747 order in April 2006. However, US seems to be pressuring Taiwan recently, leading to the revival of the order. (China Airlines claims the postponed order was due to high fuel price which erodes its profit)
China Airlines currently flies 67 jets, average age 5.0 years. The last A300-600R will be retired and 7 A340-300s will be phased out soon, due to its age. The poor performing A340-300 leads to the dis-satisfaction and also, the order for A340 family is pretty close to its deathbed.
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6714 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 23004 times:
Yesterday one of their 744s visited HKG on a normal scheduled flight but wearing an US registration N168CL. Does anyone know the fate of this aircraft and why it has been reregistered? The thread says the 744s will be replaced, but not so soon surely!!!
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 22931 times:
YES! The last of the Pan Am land super clippers will live longer. For any body that do not understand what I said. The Boeing 747 was the last giant Boeing land airliner built for Pan Am needs. It follow the Boeing 307, 377 and 707 in this tradition. It is good to see such an airliner stay around longer.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 14027 posts, RR: 48
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 22913 times:
Great news for the 747-8I programme! Combined with LH's order, the Intercontinental is starting to gain some serious momentum in the market. I'm guessing the 744s that will leave CI will be the oldest they've got (I recall they have a few of the very last 744 PAX built).
Now we need BA and CX to order a few of those 747-8Is.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 5245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 22851 times:
makes no sense to order only 10 747-8s to replace 6 A343s and up to 11 744s.
there will be no political pressure on CI from the ROC government to order Boeings, not when Boeing are in deep dodo with the present administration in Taipei for
1. insulting the Taiwanese VP by Boeing cancelling a visit to Everett by the VP at the last minute under pressure from Beijing
2. Boeing IDSs refusal to discuss industrial offsets for the Apache Longbow till ordered to do so by the Pentagon (again to keep Beijing happy) when Bell and Sikorsky are tripping over themselves to send work to Taiwan
I do feel they will eventually order 747-8s to replace the Pratt powered 744s but only because it really is the best solution for them. 747-8Fs in a few more years may also make sense to replace their 21 744Fs. I think the A343 replacement is a different program altogether.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 5245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 22684 times:
Quoting Brenintw (Reply 12): Might be going back to the lessor? The registration belongs to Wells Fargo.
EDIT: or entering the CI fleet -- the certificate is valid until mid-January according to the FAA registry.
hmmm, interesting, it was registered by FAA only 4 days ago. its c/n 29906 which entered service in 99 with CI. maybe they are doing a selling and leaseback deal. they haven't done that for a few years
Jimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 22674 times:
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 6): Yesterday one of their 744s visited HKG on a normal scheduled flight but wearing an US registration N168CL. Does anyone know the fate of this aircraft and why it has been reregistered?
This is for maintainance purposes because for some unspecified reason when encoutering with FAA.
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 8): false alarm here... well, according to this source:
Of course, China Airlines says there's no timetable, like any other airlines.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 9046 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 22599 times:
China Air needs the planes and Boeig needs the order. Every body gets something they want. Though not the first Asian airline I would seek an endorsement of for the 748, China Airlines is Asian launch custimers for the type.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 21983 times:
all i can say is good riddance to those CI A340s, it was, without a doubt the most physically uncomfortable airplane i've ever flown on. maybe in the meantime, while they wait for their 748s, they can spend some money on things like changing the coach seats on their current A340s to something that's um Comfortable!
I'd rather be one of the worst and Dumbest than the best and brightest....life's so much more stress free that way
Registration was changed on 20DEC06, due to a need of an in-house U.S. registered aircraft to help the CI Maintenance keeping their FAA repair station certificate. Otherwise the aircraft remains owned by CI.
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 22): they can spend some money on things like changing the coach seats on their current A340s to something that's um Comfortable!
All the A340s in CI (except for B-18851) had gone cabin refit already. They all had 2-class service and PTV for everyone. I'm sure they are as comfortable as they come in cattle class.
If I had something concrete I will bring your attention. In the meantime I'll poke around some high-level managers to see if they heard anything. Since CI was obsessed NOT to complicate their fleet simplicity, 748i would be the only choice in replacing long-haul aircraft. The question would then be what they would do with the capacity gap between an A340 and a 744/748i?
JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10512 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21776 times:
Quoting Leskova (Reply 27): it does remain significantly less noisy than the B777 or B747 or A330.
Yes, I wrote that the A340 is relatively quiet.
Quoting Leskova (Reply 27): Based on my personal experience, I beg to differ.
What sort of weather you encountered is not relevant to how smooth an aircraft is through turbulence. The B747 is smoother through turbulence simply by virtue of having more mass. The B777 is smoother (in the vertical component only) by means of a clever feature of the autopilot system. The A350 and B787 will be yet even smoother by using a more advanced system (that will work also in the horizontal component).
Quoting Keesje (Reply 28): pls clarify, assuming 8 abreast on a340 (5,28m), 10 abreast on 747 (6,1m) and same width aisles (min 46 cm), the apples to apples avialable width per seat on the a340 comes out higher..
Standard seat width on a B747 is 17.2" and on an A340 17.5". You asked whether the difference is significant. It's not, in the sense that the difference in seat width between the A320 and the B737 is significant. If you want to argue that the A340 is more comfortable in Y than the B747, stick with the fewer middle seats argument.