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LH Allowing Passengers In Cockpit For Landing?  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26988 posts, RR: 57
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9852 times:

Last week I flew FRA to DUB in C class. I was seated in 3C and there was a woman that boarded and was told to sit in 3D. She seemed to know the crew and was chatting with them. About 20 minutes before landing she got up and I thought she was going to the bathroom. Then I saw her talking to the F/A and then enter the cockpit. She stayed in there for the landing. Is this allowed these days for a passenger to sit in the cock pit on landing? Even if she was a friend of the crew or off duty staff member?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1843 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

There has been previous similar discussions on A.net about this, but briefly it's normally forbidden, this rule being stictly applied in the US, but in Europe, for some airlines, it's more at the Captain discretion. If you don't know somebody in the crew or if you're not a crew member from another airline (so in general if you are "just a passenger"), it's very unlikely that you will go to the cockpit. But even in Europe, it may vary between airlines. I know BA never accept somebody in the cockpit even if you are the best friend of the captain.

User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
She seemed to know the crew and was chatting with them.

Possible FA/Capt/FO/ CSA riding non-rev prehaps?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

What's the problem? Not every airline comes from Paranoialand.

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9745 times:

Understand that there are rules and there is reality. If you know the right people anything is possible.

User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9697 times:

and understand that that specific company may have rules allowing certain people in the cockpit.

you have laws and rules, and in europe there are no laws against people in the front desk



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26988 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 3):
What's the problem? Not every airline comes from Paranoialand.

Axel

I wanted to know the ''facts'' on the rules , there is no problem if it is not against the rules.

Quoting LarSPL (Reply 5):
in europe there are no laws against people in the front desk

Thanks that is what I wanted to know .


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9468 times:

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 1):
I know BA never accept somebody in the cockpit even if you are the best friend of the captain.

Since when? I've flown flight-deck jumpseat on BA, without being a friend of the crew, including the captain!


User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 7):
Since when? I've flown flight-deck jumpseat on BA, without being a friend of the crew, including the captain!

Me too, but it was before 9/11. I have jumpseated on one of their UK subsideries since 9/11 however.



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9450 times:

SU definitely still allows cockpit visitors but, of course, only to Russian speakers. As long as I spot traffic before the pilots do, they let me stay for the landing. Landing at PVG, the pilots kept asking each other (in Russian) "What did he say?" because the Russian pilots and Chinese ATC couldn't understand each others' accents in English. I kept answering them, so after a while they put me on the radio. Big grin

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26988 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9157 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
"What did he say?" because the Russian pilots and Chinese ATC couldn't understand each others' accents in English. I kept answering them, so after a while they put me on the radio.

Jesus, if I fly SU I want you there Zvezda in case the SU pilots cant understand the directions.

Linksmø Kalëdø ir Laimingø Naujøjø Metø


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9132 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
Jesus, if I fly SU I want you there Zvezda in case the SU pilots cant understand the directions.

It was a little scary. The Chinese ATC couldn't understand us very well either until I got on the radio. In general, I think this is getting better. The younger pilots at SU speak better English and the Chinese ATC staff also speak better English every year. Accents aren't so thick as they used to be.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3244 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9037 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
Landing at PVG, the pilots kept asking each other (in Russian) "What did he say?" because the Russian pilots and Chinese ATC couldn't understand each others' accents in English.

Oh dear! The thing is that it's only in China that they have this issue... There was a story a few years ago about a Russian plane (I don't think it was SU though...) trying to land at the old ATH. After seeking for clarification multiple times on ATC commands, and not really obeying others, the pilot finally said that he had the runway in sight. Unfortunately, the "runway" was a major street in Athens... thankfully, the ATC managed to convince him to go around...

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9013 times:

Nothing wrong with that if they had the relevent permissions.

Company personel are allowed in the cockpit if for example they have an operational need to go in there. For example engineers, operations staff and anone else who it would be considered useful for them to have access as part of their job to see what goes on up there.


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7743 times:

Before 9/11, Martinair and I think it was MEA offered little kids, (maybe 8-14) to sit in the cockpit with them during the flight but not during takeoff and landing. I remember someone just asked the pilot if he could watch him fly the plane and the pilot was amazed and said YES in a very enthusiastic voice.

MP and ME.......or was it MP and RJ....hmm...

Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year,

MEACEDAR


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 7):
Since when? I've flown flight-deck jumpseat on BA, without being a friend of the crew, including the captain!

Yes I've been on the flight deck on at least two occasions on BA (757 & 747) without knowing the crew, ...although I must admit it was probably at least 15 years ago.


User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

I was lucky enough to have sat in a Dragon Air A330 which landed in Kai Tak a few months before it closed. Maybe I will try some of the airlines now in Africa to see if I can sit in the cockpit for the experience.


747SP
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7417 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):

I wanted to know the ''facts'' on the rules , there is no problem if it is not against the rules.

Hey there. For Lufthansa, the Operations Manual Part A (also called OMA) is the rulebook for everything, and it says that everyone in the cockpit during flight has to have a Lufthansa ID. Further, this is also at the pilots' disgression. So an ID alone wont get you in, but if you don't have one you might be lucky if you have a friendly captain in a good mood.
However it is supposedly against the law to have anyone that is not part of the flight crew in the cockpit on flights to / over US airspace.

I personally got a chance 3 or 4 times, but I also have the ID and the guys up there enjoy hearing some stories about LH's pilot school.

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8453 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6984 times:
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Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 16):
Maybe I will try some of the airlines now in Africa to see if I can sit in the cockpit for the experience.

Oh dear, another one who thinks there are no regulations here.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineLospaziale From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

If you're lucky on the national flights in Italy and Spain you could enjoy the landing in the cockpit... it happened to me couple of time recently, but after saying that I was a student in aeronautical engineering


lo spaziale
User currently offlineJetSetter001 From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Thats how it works in Germany: You need to be checked by the means of some sort of air security law (Luftsicherheitsgesetzt in german). That states that you don´t have a criminal background etc. and is the same kinda check you need to pass to sit in an commercial airliners cockpit.

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 17):
has to have a Lufthansa ID

This check is also mandatory to get an Lufthansa ID (and employment at LH of course).But even then it remains the pilot´s choice. I´m at Lufthansa Flight School and were only able to jumpseat after they issued my ID (which took some 6 weeks) even if I would have tried...
Oh and by the way, flights from and to the US are, of course, a bit more strict...in fact only the chef-stewardess is allowed in the cockpit but no one else.


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Quoting JetSetter001 (Reply 20):
Oh and by the way, flights from and to the US are, of course, a bit more strict...in fact only the chef-stewardess is allowed in the cockpit but no one else.

Sorry, but that´s nonsense. Every single member of the on-duty cabin crew is allowed to enter the flight deck at any time. Regardless if flying the Purser position or a Flight Attendant position.

Best regards

L1011Lover


User currently offlineTurkee From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Is this allowed these days for a passenger to sit in the cock pit on landing? Even if she was a friend of the crew or off duty staff member?

QF allow staff traveling as pax into the flight deck for the trip, with proper authorisation (ie. all the seats in the back are required for paying passengers, and QF ops okay it, and the staff member holds a valid air-side ASIC). Not a common occurence, but nothing really unusual either.


User currently offlineDeC From Greece, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Even if they DID allow someone in the cockpit in some flights, with topics like this you can kiss the opportunity goodbye..


DEC
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

Quoting JetSetter001 (Reply 20):
Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 17):
has to have a Lufthansa ID

This check is also mandatory to get an Lufthansa ID (and employment at LH of course).But even then it remains the pilot´s choice. I´m at Lufthansa Flight School and were only able to jumpseat after they issued my ID (which took some 6 weeks) even if I would have tried...
Oh and by the way, flights from and to the US are, of course, a bit more strict...in fact only the chef-stewardess is allowed in the cockpit but no one else.

The rule in LH used to be that only flight crew (on duty or off duty) or engineers/mechanics (also on duty as well as off duty) were allowed to fly jump seat in the flight deck. The reason was that they expected you to know how to operate the safety equipment and to know how to behave in there during flight (e.g. sterile cockpit below 10.000 ft).
The same applied to sitting in an F/A jump seat. They wanted somebody there, who in an emergency would know how to open the door and to inflate the escape slide and generally help during an evacuation.
Flight crew get trained in it and since we are maintaining the emergency equipment, we are supposed to know how it operates.
LH administrative staff could not sit in a jump seat, no matter how senior they were.
This were the rules when I did my apprenticeship with LH many years ago.

Jan


25 DernierVirage : With AF, I have 2 times been invited to visit the flight deck (both times were after 9/11), but each time it was the chief purser who asked as I have
26 Vimanav : When I was working for LH (sales), of the 100 odd times that I flew LH, I must have been up in the cockpit for take-off and/or landing 90% of the time
27 Joge : I've been on several jumpseat takeoffs, flights and landings. Both pre and post 9/11. I belive I've had a bit of luck there and I believe it's still p
28 Post contains images WILCO737 : well spoken Joge! I am a pilot at LH and sometimes you have people on the jumpseat! The books says that it is allowed for airline employees, but the
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