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PIA To EWR & New 777-ER  
User currently offlineFahadmk From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8040 times:
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Word on the street has it that starting in March , PIA will start 2 flights a week to EWR from KHI . Although , still in talks, chances of then starting is very likely, as NY / NJ is one of the busiest sectors PIA currently offers. Emphasis on ONE OF THE.

Also , the recently delivered 777 will run KHI - MAN - JFK.

This came from close relatives, who might just be a station manager @ JFK.


flown on..747-200/300/400 - 777-200/200ER/200LR/300/300ER/ - 767-200/300ER - 757-200/300 - 737-300/400/500/600/700/900/9
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7992 times:

I'm surprised they wouldn't just try a KHI-JFK direct flight instead of going to a new airport for the direct flight.


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7930 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
I'm surprised they wouldn't just try a KHI-JFK direct flight instead of going to a new airport for the direct flight.

I doubt they will start EWR...also, until the CAA (Pakistnan's Civil Aviation Authroity) fixes some problems, the FAA won't allow PK to fly nonstop to the United States from Pakistan (Canada is fine though).

PK is allowed to fly USA-Pakistan direct though.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7921 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
the FAA won't allow PK to fly nonstop to the United States from Pakistan



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
PK is allowed to fly USA-Pakistan direct though.

Those two statements contradict themselves.

Direct and nonstop mean the same thing.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineAQ737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

What Jacobin777 means is that PK can only fly the route non-stop in one direction. Apparently, due to unsufficient security, PK isn't authorized to operate from Pakistani airports non-stop to the United States. However, they can operate flights from Pakistan to the U.S. via another country which does have authorization for non-stop flights to the U.S. On the otherhand, because PK flights FROM the U.S. to Pakistan leave from TSA airports, the security is sufficient and thus flights can operate non-stop from the U.S. to Pakistan. They don't contradict eachother.

Aq737


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7888 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 3):

Direct and nonstop mean the same thing.

No they don't. Non-stop is non-stop. Direct is via a third point. Mostly everybody will use the terms interchangeably, but in airline lingo, there is a significant difference.



a.
User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
No they don't. Non-stop is non-stop. Direct is via a third point. Mostly everybody will use the terms interchangeably, but in airline lingo, there is a significant difference.

Just to add; in airline lingo, direct flight refers to when a plane stops in an intermediate point(s) and there is no change of aircraft.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
What Jacobin777 means is that PK can only fly the route non-stop in one direction. Apparently, due to unsufficient security, PK isn't authorized to operate from Pakistani airports non-stop to the United States. However, they can operate flights from Pakistan to the U.S. via another country which does have authorization for non-stop flights to the U.S. On the otherhand, because PK flights FROM the U.S. to Pakistan leave from TSA airports, the security is sufficient and thus flights can operate non-stop from the U.S. to Pakistan. They don't contradict eachother.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
No they don't. Non-stop is non-stop. Direct is via a third point. Mostly everybody will use the terms interchangeably, but in airline lingo, there is a significant difference.

Both of you are correct... Smile

Silly me  footinmouth  crazy 

I should have been a little bit more clear...right now, because of FAA security, PK is not allowed to fly nonstop from Pakistan to the United States, however, PK is allowed to fly nonstop from the United States to Pakistan...in fact, YYZ and JFK nonstop are the reasons as to why they got the 777-200LR....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7777 times:

Oh ok, thanks for clearning that up guys. Sorry for the misunderstandment.

I was aware of the fact that PIA was not allowed to fly nonstop to the US from Pakistan but I was not aware that they could fly nonstop in one direction but not the other.

I could be wrong but I believe Air India will be starting direct BOM-JFK flights in the spring with their new 777-200LRs. Did India have a problem with nonstop flights both ways like Pakistan does?



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 8):

I could be wrong but I believe Air India will be starting direct BOM-JFK flights in the spring with their new 777-200LRs. Did India have a problem with nonstop flights both ways like Pakistan does?

No, not at all. The issues with Pakistan-->USA flights have been security issues, not range/tech issues.



a.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7717 times:

Flying to EWR would be a good move on PIAs part due to the greater domestic connection opportunities the airport offers compared to JFK.

If they want EWR to succeed and want to maximize the useage of its B 772LRs, then it should fly KHI-DXB-EWR 3 times a week as the airline has full 5th freedom rights on the DXB-EWR-DXB route. In this way, one B 772LR can be dedicated to EWR 3 times a week and one can be dedicated to 3 weekly YYZ flights.

Just like how they are very successful getting 5th freedom traffic on their 2 weekly DXB-SVO-DXB route, their inflight product on the B 772LR has the potential to make DXB-EWR-DXB work too...both in J and Y classes.

Yes I know that EK flies triple daily to JFK, but PIA in EWR would be targeting a niche market of Pakistanis and other sorts of ppl living closer to EWR and those who do not like to commute to JFK!!!


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
Flying to EWR would be a good move on PIAs part due to the greater domestic connection opportunities the airport offers compared to JFK.

If they want EWR to succeed and want to maximize the useage of its B 772LRs, then it should fly KHI-DXB-EWR 3 times a week as the airline has full 5th freedom rights on the DXB-EWR-DXB route. In this way, one B 772LR can be dedicated to EWR 3 times a week and one can be dedicated to 3 weekly YYZ flights.

Just like how they are very successful getting 5th freedom traffic on their 2 weekly DXB-SVO-DXB route, their inflight product on the B 772LR has the potential to make DXB-EWR-DXB work too...both in J and Y classes.

Yes I know that EK flies triple daily to JFK, but PIA in EWR would be targeting a niche market of Pakistanis and other sorts of ppl living closer to EWR and those who do not like to commute to JFK!!!

Behramjee..you have some great points (as usual), but we are talking about PK here...and unfortunately, they sometimes lack the imagination and foresight to take advantage of what they have.

I think just as important for PK would be to have codeshares (or join an alliance)...in Canada, I would like to see PK codeshare with WS..and in the United States, either with CO or AA...CO would provide good EWR-IAH connections....

Joining an alliance like OneWorld would be intersting too....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
I'm surprised they wouldn't just try a KHI-JFK direct flight instead of going to a new airport for the direct flight.

Exactly!!!!!

EWR? Why?


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16689 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):

EWR? Why

To cater to the large affluent South Asian community within Northern New Jersey, many large International Airlines (Singapore, Lufthansa, Virgin, Air France, El Al, Swiss, Air India, British Airways, KLM) serve both EWR and JFK in the NYC metropolitan area.

Both airports serve the Financial and commercial district of Manhattan, EWR also serves Northern New Jersey to which is one of the most diverse and affluent areas of the US.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7510 times:

PIA take delivery of 2 B 773ERs soon i.e. one now and one in Feb...so they have 2 extra aircraft to play around with to fly on new routes or increase frequency on current long haul cities served...unless they plan on retiring 2 B 747s when the B 773ERs are fully delivered.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Non-stop is non-stop. Direct is via a third point. Mostly everybody will use the terms interchangeably, but in airline lingo, there is a significant difference.

Not quite. Non-stop is a subset of direct.

Hence, every non-stop flight is also a direct flight but every direct flight is not a non-stop flight.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4493 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7404 times:
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Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Apparently, due to unsufficient security, PK isn't authorized to operate from Pakistani airports non-stop to the United States. However, they can operate flights from Pakistan to the U.S. via another country which does have authorization for non-stop flights to the U.S.

so let me get this right, someone (or something) gets on the plane in Pakistan without "adequate security" , flies via someplace in Europe onto the US and in doing so is now "secure". what moron in TSA or HSD figured this one out!


User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1045 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7328 times:

What about the check in baggage? If some explosive material is checked in a Pakistan airport due to 'inadequate security', will the halt in Europe help? I don't think the checked in baggage would be rescreened in Europe.


An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineAzstagecoach From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 16):
so let me get this right, someone (or something) gets on the plane in Pakistan without "adequate security" , flies via someplace in Europe onto the US and in doing so is now "secure". what moron in TSA or HSD figured this one out!

But they don't get to the US if the 3rd country, the one with adequate security, stops them. And the UK re-checks everyone, incl. those transferring from western Europe.

Can someone explain why PK cannot offer a heightened security regime for these flights??? Similar to El Al at international airports. Never mind the politics but perhaps they could contract El Al...


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 18):

Can someone explain why PK cannot offer a heightened security regime for these flights??? Similar to El Al at international airports. Never mind the politics but perhaps they could contract El Al...

It's all about Pakistani politics..nothing else. Various officials of the Pakistani govt. don't feel they need to go through security in Pakistan...until everyone clears through security, the FAA will not let the CAA (Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority) allow nonstop flights to the United States.

It seems as if Canada doesn't have this problem though.


I know that the FAA has been working with the CAA on this particular issue, but I'm not so sure when we'll be seeing this issue solved.

Also, IIRC, there were a shortage of pilots to fly the both the YYZ and JFK routes nonstop (though I think this problem has been solved or is in the process of being solved)

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 14):
PIA take delivery of 2 B 773ERs soon i.e. one now and one in Feb...so they have 2 extra aircraft to play around with to fly on new routes or increase frequency on current long haul cities served...unless they plan on retiring 2 B 747s when the B 773ERs are fully delivered.

Behramjee, given the EU situation with the 747's, I'm not so sure if they have the extra aircrafts. In fact, IIRC, the B742's are basically going into retirement. The B743's though have been taken care of and are either now flying or are cleared to fly to Europe (United Kingdom in particular).

On a side note, PK get their 2nd 773ER (from ILFC) in Feb. 2007



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
If they want EWR to succeed and want to maximize the useage of its B 772LRs, then it should fly KHI-DXB-EWR 3 times a week as the airline has full 5th freedom rights on the DXB-EWR-DXB route. In this way, one B 772LR can be dedicated to EWR 3 times a week and one can be dedicated to 3 weekly YYZ flights.

Just like how they are very successful getting 5th freedom traffic on their 2 weekly DXB-SVO-DXB route, their inflight product on the B 772LR has the potential to make DXB-EWR-DXB work too...both in J and Y classes.

Yes I know that EK flies triple daily to JFK, but PIA in EWR would be targeting a niche market of Pakistanis and other sorts of ppl living closer to EWR and those who do not like to commute to JFK!!!

Malaysian couldnt make a go of DXB-EWR and that was when EK had less JFK flights, so how would PIA be any different?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 20):
Malaysian couldnt make a go of DXB-EWR and that was when EK had less JFK flights, so how would PIA be any different?

1. MAS's B 772ERs suffered a payload restriction on the DXB-EWR-DXB route hence big loss of revenue. PIAs B 772LR would however be able to carry 310 pax in a 2 class layout + 15 tonnes of cargo.

2. MAS had a 3 class configuration for its flights and that failed big time due to the lack of premium class travel.

3. The O&D community between PAK and NYC is far bigger than KUL & NYC...Pakistanis residing in USA and Canada are willing to pay a premium upto US$ 100-150 if they can get to their homeland one straight direct flight or one stop max enroute rather than have 2 stops enroute. That is why EK, EY and PIA are the prefered airlines for pax bound for KHI, for LHE its PIA, EK, EY and KU where as for ISB its EK, PK, KU and BA.

4. Not everyone heading out to DXB from NYC likes to take a long commute to JFK especially if they live in NJ/Newark area.

5. PIAs J class prices are usually much lower than EKs, EY and the EU airlines flying from EWR to DXB via their hubs. PIAs J class on the B 772LRs offers a 60 inch seat pitch + 15 tv channels (including a dedicated cricket channel) + a recline of 180 degrees thus converting the seat into a 6ft 6 inch bed. For example, from YYZ, PIAs J class is priced at CAD 3300+ tax for a YYZ-PAK-YYZ fare where as EYs is CAD 4200 + tax and BA's is over CAD 5000+ tax for ISB!!!


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4493 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4490 times:
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Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 18):
But they don't get to the US if the 3rd country, the one with adequate security, stops them. And the UK re-checks everyone, incl. those transferring from western Europe.

but if its a direct flight which just happens to stop in country X and there is no change of plane I can't see country X screening these passengers who may not even be getting of the plane!


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):

but if its a direct flight which just happens to stop in country X and there is no change of plane I can't see country X screening these passengers who may not even be getting of the plane!

Pax flying ORD-MAN-Pakistan have to get off the plane at MAN.....now I don't know if they go through a screening process again or not..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

Quoting Fahadmk (Thread starter):
Word on the street has it that starting in March , PIA will start 2 flights a week to EWR from KHI . Although , still in talks, chances of then starting is very likely, as NY / NJ is one of the busiest sectors PIA currently offers. Emphasis on ONE OF THE.

Will this mean a reduction is service to JFK?

How many flights does PIA have from JFK now? IS it 6x a week still?

Thanks

Planetime


25 Fahadmk : The reason for making all passengers get off the plane, is that when they are taken off, a manifest of the continuing passengers , who are going to t
26 AlitaliaMD11 : KHI-MAN-JFK is operating at 5x weekly.
27 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Fahadmk..I was talking about the other way around (going to Pakistan).... ..but that's ok..its probably basically the same the other way around...
28 Trex8 : are they screened in MAN though???
29 LTBEWR : This is a good thing. With 2x week EWR service, that should be a good balance with their JFK service. There is a growing number of Pakistanis in New J
30 Trex8 : if British security screened them in MAN, I would agree, if they don't, WTF does making the plane land in MAN do if the passenger/luggage wasn't actu
31 Jacobin777 : Two things about this route as my family travel on it quite often 1)with 5th freedom rights, the pax list must match up properly with the manifest as
32 Azstagecoach : Then I stand corrected; I guess direct same-plane flights don't get re-screened. And I agree it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they don't get s
33 Trex8 : are they "forcing" some or only those who want to stretch their legs??
34 Post contains links and images 777way : PIA Express photo, they have not gained approval to fly this aircraft yet, AP-BIC belonging to Air Universal(Jordan) registered in Pakistan, it was to
35 Behramjee : No its an acft leased for HAJJ flights from PAK to JED and the occassional domestic flight...and not solely for domestic flights.
36 Jacobin777 : The "force" 95% of the pax off..I think they allow some J-class pax...
37 ORDRyan28 : thanks for the photo, 777way. I had no idea about PK Express. It looks like it was taken a while ago..lol...but thanks anyway
38 Trex8 : and they go through UK security? actually its probably better they do that than be checked in Pakistan or even by the TSA in the US. Last month I had
39 777way : Its not doing any Hajj flights and has been parked in Karachi for nearly a year now and will only be operating LCC service on the route mentioned, no
40 Fiaz : Hey guys when you do get off in MAN the PAX do get screened. cause i just experienced it. We have to go through rescreening before we can head upstair
41 Trex8 : are the UK screening all transit passengers now even on same plane flights???
42 Fiaz : Hey Trex8.... Yes they are, for some reason i dont know why but they screened each every passenger.. Fiaz
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