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Light Loads On Flights To Japan  
User currently offlineDelta15 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 617 posts, RR: 4
Posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

Hey all, I was checking the loads for a planned daytrip, when out of curiousity I checked the flights to Tokyo on Delta Airlines. The first flight I checked was ATL-NRT. There were 48 seats in Business Class and 190 Seats in coach class with an Authorized availabaility of 210 seats, and 48 seats. That means, 2 Business seats sold, and 8 coach class seats sold!!! I was so surprised, they would have more crew than passengers. I also checked the flights from L.A., and Portland which were only slightly better. The flights were for tommorrow, and my question is why didnt they cancel the flight and reroute the passengers through Portland or L.A.. With only like a 4 % load on a 7000 mile flight there is no way they are making money. Alsois this just a problem with delta, or do other airlines have loads this light to Japan?

Also on a different note, I have a few questions about Narita airport. Do they have any public access showers, that you can pay for? How far is it from Tokyo? Are there any 777-300 operating at Narita Between 1:00 and 4:00 daily? Anything special, different about Narita that I should no about that is different from U.S. Airports?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineWishihadalife From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Just a word of advice here - NEVER EVER EVER disclose the overbooking profile (210 over 190). It could get your mom/dad fired.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

I agree with Vladimir here. As an *airline brat* myself, I have been cautioned to never disclose proprietary information, and this certainly qualifies as such.

Airlines frequently operate flights with low passenger loads because of other reasons such as aircraft positioning, cargo loads, etc...

AI once operated an entire BOM-LHR-BOM trip with ZERO pax on each leg. The flight was delayed by 72 hrs, but they flew it because of the cargo.

User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

Thats odd. I checked online and am showing 50% or so for tomorrow, and nearly 100% the day after.

User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

I think there should be a law saying that airlines are to tell if a flight is overbooked during booking.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

Ahlfors - there is a law to that effect. HOWEVER, the airlines do not have to tell you HOW MUCH the flight is overbooked or what the profile is. On many routes (especially to Asia in winter), the profile can run to almost 30% capacity. That information is highly proprietary and I have seen people fired for disclosing it, even inadvertently.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Senstive information issues aside, I can assure you that these load problems seem to be only on Delta's part, as flights to Tokyo, at least from LAX, are fully booked often two or three days in advance, and almost always over 80-90% full the day before the flight. For a less accurate description of whether flights are fully booked or not, go to the AA website and search a city pair schedule. It will give you most airlines and also tell you if seats are available in a certain class or not.

Narita IIRC is about 40-odd miles away from Tokyo proper. Also IIRC Cathay Pacific has a 777-300 there between 1:00 and 4:00 PM. I doubt you will see and Japanese -300s there because ANA and JAL use them for domestice routes and therefore they go from Haneda. I don't know about public access showers. I haven't noticed anything strikingly different at Narita compared to most U.S. airports the times I have been there, but I can tell you it is a very nice airport.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineRaddog2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Yes, there are great showers at Narita. Very clean, very nice, and very cheap. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was like 300 or 400 yen. You get your own little shower room, they have towels, soap, shampoo, a hair dryer, moisturizer, the works. The water is hot and high pressure. Believe me, that shower felt SOOOOOOOOOOO good after a flight from Delhi, where it was humid and nasty monsoon season. I don't think I could have made it back to SFO without it.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

300 or 400 yen?? That's an excellent price. I'm amazed they don't gouge you for something like that. Where are the showers located?

Aaron G.

User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Like Aaron, I'm beginning to doubt the info you got from Delta's reservations program regarding the number of seats available for ATL-NRT tomorrow. My reason for that is that NW will go to double-daily MSP-NRT service beginning in April, and if NW can get enough traffic to fill 800 or so seats at MSP, there is NO WAY that DL could only sell 8 seats from the largest hub in North America.

Maybe you only saw the overbooking limits, not the actual number of seats available.


Create your own luck.
User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 982 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

As a DL employee I would encourage you to make your way through the proper channels to get this thread deleted as to not get you or your family in some type of unfavorable situation. Have you spoken to your mom/dad about this posting? I'm pretty sure they will be less than thrilled that you have posted some information that may be correct/incorrect concerning DL and DL load factors for a particular flight. I'm pretty sure mom/dad won't be too happy explaining to their boss/manager about what junior is doing at home on the computer.


User currently offlineCaravelle From Norway, joined Aug 2000, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (15 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Not only the showers are nice at Narita - plane spotting and photo opportunities are good, too. I´ve never seen so many 400 - 600 mm lenses in my life, photographers have cut little holes in the fence fo make sure their pictures are not blurred - I bet some of the best photos here on this site are taken at NRT.
The viewing area is signposted from many places within the airport.


Trains and boats and planes....
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