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DL455 CVG-LAX Diverted LAS Due To Engine Out 12/27  
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3801 times:

Just a heads up to those who care about such things, but we had an oil pressure problem on engine two of our 757, and landed at LAS (I'm a pax in 38A). They are pulling a RON 757 over next to our Tech plane at the moment, and should have us on to LAX within 20-30 minutes. We are all currently collected at the gate. Luckily McCarren has free WiFi.

Only way we as passengers could even tell the engine was shut down was that when they went through the trouble shooting process, they shut down the electric to the IFE and reading lights. After that came back up, they told us about 1/2 hour later they had to divert due to rules (the pilot didn't seem at all concerned, though of course some passengers were). The flight was otherwise non-eventful from a customer perspective.

The disabled aircraft is 622, and other than a few mechanics looking at #2, they haven't done much with it.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThepilot From Canada, joined Jan 2010, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3779 times:

Wow, thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about the tech problems. Did the captain tell you it was an oil pressure problem?


From YVR
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3759 times:

Yes. IIRC he said they shut it down as a precaution (there was no explosion or any kind of physical failure).

Still waiting to board. They finally got the replacement 757 to the gate, and are still offloading the baggage from 622 to transfer. While I appreciate not being stuck here in LAS and getting to continue to LAX tonight, DL has no sense of urgency whatsoever to get us out of here.

We landed 2+ hours ago, they knew in advance of the situation, and they had the 757 sitting on the tarmac as a RON. Not to mention various DL people told us "15 minutes" and "20-30 minutes" long ago...

Other airlines have ferried in aircraft faster than this substitution process. Driving home at 1AM at LAX is going to be interesting, since I've been up since 4AM LA time (coming from Florida).



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
While I appreciate not being stuck here in LAS and getting to continue to LAX tonight, DL has no sense of urgency whatsoever to get us out of here.

We landed 2+ hours ago, they knew in advance of the situation, and they had the 757 sitting on the tarmac as a RON. Not to mention various DL people told us "15 minutes" and "20-30 minutes" long ago...

They knew about 35 minutes before it happened. They are not staffed to handle a diversion, let alone a drag up and an equipment change to it......



Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting IH8B6 (Reply 3):
They knew about 35 minutes before it happened. They are not staffed to handle a diversion, let alone a drag up and an equipment change to it......

Bull.

They didn't want to pay staff to do it. They had staff there, even ground staff turning a spirit plane in a very short time. This procedure for our flight, despite being a diversion, was little more than a "turn" of an aircraft, but with a swap. Reading about other diversions on a.net recently, even when a plane had to be ferried in from another station that also wasn't a hub, they took less time.

I was not alone in this observation about the "who cares" nature of our time. Everyone I talked to, without me suggesting it, felt the same way. Someone even used the same words as me without me saying them: "no sense of urgency."

DL basically had these priorities:

Get a plane to LAX so they don't have to cancel another flight.
Save money by not limiting the hours they would have to pay ground crew to load unload luggage, even though it meant a major delay, and save money in every other way possible.
Get the pax to LAX eventually without having to put them on another carrier or in a hotel.
Get the plane off before the maximum work hours for the crew.

Nowhere on the list, once we got to LAX, was to keep the pax apprised HONESTLY or get us off QUICKLY.

DL had 5 planes parked at LAS at the time that I could see (parked, not doing a turn). 757, 757, MD80, 767, 767.

Anyway, we got in at 2:20AM and our bags were completely off the plane by 2:45AM LA time. We were initially running early on the CVG-LAX flight (10:30PM was the arrival time we were estimating), so the diversion took a minimum 3.5 hours, closer to 4. The man next to me, traveling with his 2 year old daughter observed they could have driven us to LAX in less time...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

complain to the DOT, if they didn't update you timely and accuratly then they violated their CSP, I know right now the carriers are being evaluated on those...


Why do I fly???
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
They didn't want to pay staff to do it.

Assumption.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
I was not alone in this observation about the "who cares" nature of our time. Everyone I talked to, without me suggesting it, felt the same way.

Groupthink assumption, from passengers, who do not necessarily (likely, in fact) know the actual inner workings of an airline.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Someone even used the same words as me without me saying them: "no sense of urgency."

It may not have been decided yet (pending MX evaluation and other related coordination) if they were going to stick with the same aircraft and repair it, or swap to another aircraft.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Get a plane to LAX so they don't have to cancel another flight.
Save money by not limiting the hours they would have to pay ground crew to load unload luggage, even though it meant a major delay, and save money in every other way possible.
Get the pax to LAX eventually without having to put them on another carrier or in a hotel.
Get the plane off before the maximum work hours for the crew.

Assumptions X 4.


User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

Ikra-

Generally I agree with your posts. I think that you are off base in this topic mainly because of the emotion due to a diversion and lack of rest

There are too many variables unknown to passengers regarding the availability of RON aircraft. Perhaps there were maintence checks, lack of fuel, lack of availability of ground crew able to position parked aircraft, 1 cycle from mx. The point is, you don't know the situation regarding the other planes. Its also possible that your flight was not full of enough high yielding passengers to make it worthwhile to disrupt future flights by switching planes, when you were already late due to an unexpected diversion.

Delta also must consider pilots reaching 1000 hour annual limits, pilot availability, etc.

They got you from point A to point B in a reasonable amount of time, as per the contract of carriage. They even took you sight seeing in Vegas as a precaution so you weren't dead had the plane crashed due to the oil problem.

$hit happens, deal with it. Happy Holidays.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):

Generally I agree with your posts. I think that you are off base in this topic mainly because of the emotion due to a diversion and lack of rest

 checkmark  Bottom line is that you still got to LAX within a reasonable time, and regarding the Delta planes on the ground in LAS, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Delta has a number of night flights heading back east?


User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

The aircraft is still parked at the remote parking area by the cargo ramps
as of 1745local time/28DEC.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 9):
The aircraft is still parked at the remote parking area by the cargo ramps
as of 1745local time/28DEC.

If it's still there after nearly 24 hrs, there's a good chance it's an engine change, with said engine probably enroute via truck. If so, and the engine is comming from ORD, JFK, or CVG, I hope they're not driving I-70 through DEN...  Wink


User currently offlineDl1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3156 times:

A/C 622 is still out of service, waiting for a replacement engine.

Flt 455 arrived at the LAS gate at 22:12 and the replacement a/c pushed at 00:49. I don't think 2 hours and 37 minutes is bad at all, but of course people want 29 dollar fares AND full service.


User currently offlineN102DAman From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3124 times:

I usually do not pipe into complaint threads, This one sounds like a complaint. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

Being that I am a former Gate Agent and IROP Coordinator for a Delta subsidiary airline. I can tell you that without a doubt Delta would have done thier ABSOLUTE best to get you to LAX with as little delay as possable. It is in thier best interest as well as yours. As far as the no sence of urgency is concerned, that is just nonsence. Delays in one place result in future delays on the route that aircraft is being utilized on. Delta runs flights round the clock out of LAX due to time differences in traveling west to east. Having that aircraft in LAX as soon as posssable was not only in the best interests to the airline but in the best interests of all the passengers.

I am not a pilot or a Mechanic I do not know the severity of the problem that occured. I do know that if it resulted in a diversion and an Aircraft swap it was pretty significant. I would have been just as happy pulling slots and drinking beer for a couple of hours knowing that I was safe and sound. The fact that the fine Delta crew took all the proper precautions they needed to in order to keep you and the rest of the passengers safe, as well the equipment as functional as possable would be a big boost in my confidence in the crew and the airline. Delta has the finest pilots the industry has to offer, thier decisions were appropriate and thier abilities top notch.

As mentioned previosly two and a half hours for a diversion with a full aircraft swap doesn't seem bad at all. Another point and I may just be stating the obvious, but just because there are aircraft parked at the gate or on the ground doesn't mean that they can me utilized for your specific situation. All aircraft are scheduled for a specific use at all times. Taking one off its scheduled route could mean cancelling another flight.

Upon your arrival in order to completely get that aircraft ready for flight there are ALOT of things that must be done. ALL of which take some time to complete especially if they all have to happen at the same time.

Thank you for flying Delta and hopefully you will travel with Delta again. In no way am I trying to say that your concerns are unfounded. I am trying to explain as best I can given my expierience why it doesn't make sence that Delta didn't perform its service as contracted.


N192DAman

"FLY WIDGET FLY"
"Song sang a good Song"



"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
regarding the Delta planes on the ground in LAS, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Delta has a number of night flights heading back east?

Indeed they do, 1 763 to ATL, and 1 757 each to BOS, CVG, FLL and MCO.


User currently offlineBablackpilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

Normally I don't jump in on complaints either because everyone has the right to gripe, just be sure you know what you're talking about.
Having been on many flights that had mechanical problems I've talked to a few dispatchers and pilots and what you as a passenger thinks is a simple plane change can be a big pain in the butt for the airline.
First off, you have to make sure you have a plane to switch out.
You can't just put passengers from a fully loaded 757-200 on a 737-200....sorry...won't work.
Got to get the airplane pre flighted, that alone is a pain in the butt especially if the plane is dark and cold.
Got to do up a flight plan with fuel loads and such....Not every plane weighs the same and certain airplanes in an airline fleet might have different weight restrictions....For example, the plane might have a reverser inop, well that means the plane has to use brakes alone and that requires a longer runway.
Got to check with the crew of the broken airplane and make sure they aren't over there daily hours limit.
Is that crew needed in another city to relieve another crew who is approaching that limit.
Got to check the airplane with the problem to see if it's something that can be fixed right away or does it really require a plane change.
Got to move the bag load from the broken airplane to the replacement airplane and make sure the load is correct.
I could go on and on but anyone would see that this is a partial list of the drama that an airline or operator can go through with broken equipment. And on top of it, that broken airplane sitting on the ground is costing the airline money...not making it.
Now you tell me, is it worth it to inconvenience passengers for a couple of hours to make the right decision and keep airfare low for everyone or say screw it, lets make the passenger happy while going broke.....
Sorry don't see and even medium on this one.
As said before, just be glad you made it to your destination safely so you can fly again someday.



My arrogance is only an issue between you and your self-esteem!"
User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting Dl1011 (Reply 11):
Flt 455 arrived at the LAS gate at 22:12 and the replacement a/c pushed at 00:49. I don't think 2 hours and 37 minutes is bad at all, but of course people want 29 dollar fares AND full service.

I agree. Most other carriers wouldn't have a backup aircraft to put him on and he would be at the mercy of other carriers all operating full flights this time of year. Airlines, to their credit, have made a very tough business look easy for so long that passengers have lost all perspective about the complexities of the aviation business, in my opinion.


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