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Will BA Ever 'dusk' Its Remaining 767s?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7986 times:

Could someone please tell me how many 767s BA has.

How many have been 'dusked' to long-haul configuration?

How many are still in short-haul configuration?

Will the remaining short haul 767s eventually be 'dusked' to long-haul? I would think BA could open up some new long-haul routes where some money could be made.

Pittsburgh
Minneapolis
New Orleans
Bamako
Djibouti
Sana'a
Lahore
Karachi
Caracas
Bogota
Lima

(I know the last 3 have been flown and ceased recently, however I think they could still work)

Surely there is enough short-haul (A319/20/21s) aircraft around at Heathrow to cover the existing 767 european routes - plus a little bit of re-scheduling?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7988 times:

What does 'dusked' mean......?????


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7945 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
What does 'dusked' mean......?????

It means the re-configuration from BA's old 767 long-haul layout of:

First Class
Club World (cradle seats)
World Traveller (without PTVs)

to the new layout of:

Club World (lie-flat seats)
World Traveller Plus
World Traveller (both with PTVs),

to match the rest of the long-haul fleet (without First Class). It was done because not a lot of money was being made in First Class on some of BA's long-haul routes, such as Tel Aviv, Nassau, Providenciales etc, and also the rest of the cabin needed updating!


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Caracas
Bogota
Lima

(I know the last 3 have been flown and ceased recently, however I think they could still work)

Out of curiosity, what makes you think these routes will work, when BA seem to have thought otherwise....



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineEurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Could someone please tell me how many 767s BA has.

Jethro's notes 21 B767 in BA Service with 14 scheduled for disposal (no time frame mentioned)

http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_boeing_b767srs.htm

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
How many are still in short-haul configuration?

No idea, but if it helps, I flew G-BNWA MUC-LHR before Christmas and she was definitely still in short-haul config.

Regards,
Eurohub



Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7818 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Out of curiosity, what makes you think these routes will work, when BA seem to have thought otherwise....

They did work originally with BA, but as with most of BA's strategies, they decided to put the aircraft on a route where it could make more money, and codeshare with Iberia on these 3 South American routes!

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 4):
No idea, but if it helps, I flew G-BNWA MUC-LHR before Christmas and she was definitely still in short-haul config.

Well of course she was in short-haul config...it was a short-haul route! Lol. Thanks anyway!


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7776 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
How many are still in short-haul configuration?

BNWA
BNWB
BNWX
BNWZ
BZHA
BZHB
BZHC

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 5):
They did work originally with BA, but as with most of BA's strategies, they decided to put the aircraft on a route where it could make more money, and codeshare with Iberia on these 3 South American routes!

So what makes you think they will want to operate them again?


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 5):
They did work originally with BA, but as with most of BA's strategies, they decided to put the aircraft on a route where it could make more money,

Lets think about it logically. Why should an airline operate a route and make 'some' money, when they can codeshare with a major partner, with limited risk, and still benefit financially, albeit to a lesser extent? BA aren't a non-profit organisation, and like any sensibly run business (ie, not BMI), they operate where they can make most money as fast as possible, and forge partnerships where the large amount of 'risk' associated with marginal routes can be absorbed by someone else.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 6):
So what makes you think they will want to operate them again?

Exactly. Really my point is that if BA feel they can make these routes work, they will undoubtedly serve them. Whether they will risk losing more money as the route develops and at the same time justify the expense involved to convert what are essentially airframes planned for disposal remains to be seen.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 6):
So what makes you think they will want to operate them again?

I don't think BA will want to operate these routes again. I'm just stating what I would LIKE to see. I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I?

I reckon BA WOULD still operate to these destinations still if they had more aircraft, but until new additional aircraft are received, BA has to operate existing aircraft on routes where money can be made.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7456 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):

Erm. Im confused. First it's ...

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I don't think BA will want to operate these routes again.

... and then it's

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I reckon BA WOULD still operate to these destinations still if they had more aircraft,



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't expressing 'opinion' per se. You have confused us into thinking that what you would like to see happen in an 'ideal world' is enabled by effectively 'dusking' the 767's so that they can operate the routes mentioned. At no time do you suggest or infer that these routes are merely fantasy.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7433 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Surely there is enough short-haul (A319/20/21s) aircraft around at Heathrow to cover the existing 767 european routes - plus a little bit of re-scheduling?

Don't BA use 767's on some short haul routes mainly because of the cargo capacity on them, rather than the number of pax ? When they used to operate 767's LHR-MAD last year, the pax loads were often low, but they were usually full of cargo.

I think it's a similar reason why they use 757's on some routes also ?

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Pittsburgh
Minneapolis
New Orleans
Bamako
Djibouti
Sana'a
Lahore
Karachi
Caracas
Bogota
Lima

Given the proximity of ISB to LHE...I don't see LHE opening up anytime soon.

Regarding KHI...no European carrier wants to fly there anymore (besides TK)...

At one time, LH, AF, KL, LX (old Swiss Air), Pan Am all used to fly there (I've flown on all them to KHI at one time)....the business is there, but I've heard that the govt. were giving some of these carriers a hard time regarding fees, etc.

Also, some of the carriers flew KHI as a "tag" city or had a "tag on" flight.

For example, KL used to fly AMS-KHI-CMB (Colombo Bandaranaike Int'l)....LX used to fly ZRH-DXB-KHI...

Though there is an AZ office in KHI, I can't recall AZ ever flying there..

AZ office @ KHI..




That being said, I would love to see BA fly KHI.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7354 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I don't think BA will want to operate these routes again. I'm just stating what I would LIKE to see. I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I?

In your first post, you gave a list of destinations where you thought BA could make money. You didn't say anywhere that's what you'd like to see. You're entitled to an opinion, but the way i interpreted your first post was that these routes should be operate by BA, even if they were operated in the past and dropped.

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I reckon BA WOULD still operate to these destinations still if they had more aircraft,

If they had more aircraft, more slots at LHR, more gates at LHR, and if IB went bust, then maybe - I otherwise doubt it.


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 9):
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):


Erm. Im confused. First it's ...

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I don't think BA will want to operate these routes again.

I meant with the current fleet. Cleary there isn't enough long-haul aircraft to operate both these South American destinations PLUS the new routes where money IS being made, thus putting these aircraft on the money making routes.

Thats why I then went on to say this:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 9):
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
I reckon BA WOULD still operate to these destinations still if they had more aircraft,

Once BA orders more aircraft, perhaps/hopefully/maybe, they will return to these South American destinations, so that they can operate these AND the recently added routes where money is being made.

Sorry if I was not clearer before!


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Out of curiosity, what makes you think these routes will work, when BA seem to have thought otherwise....

 checkmark 

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 5):
They did work originally with BA, but as with most of BA's strategies, they decided to put the aircraft on a route where it could make more money, and codeshare with Iberia on these 3 South American routes

You make it sound as though its a bad thing, if it makes them more money why would they do something that doesn't

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 6):
So what makes you think they will want to operate them again?

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 10):
Don't BA use 767's on some short haul routes mainly because of the cargo capacity on them, rather than the number of pax ? When they used to operate 767's LHR-MAD last year, the pax loads were often low, but they were usually full of cargo.

I think it's a similar reason why they use 757's on some routes also ?

You may be right there, but it isn't the case on all of the 767 operated short haul routes. Most of them are simply because of high PAX demand

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 12):
In your first post, you gave a list of destinations where you thought BA could make money. You didn't say anywhere that's what you'd like to see. You're entitled to an opinion, but the way i interpreted your first post was that these routes should be operate by BA, even if they were operated in the past and dropped

So did I Big grin lol


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7202 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 5):
They did work originally with BA, but as with most of BA's strategies, they decided to put the aircraft on a route where it could make more money, and codeshare with Iberia on these 3 South American routes

You make it sound as though its a bad thing, if it makes them more money why would they do something that doesn't

I never said anything about it being a bad thing. BA is a business, so of course it is going to change its strategies in order to make the most money.

I'm just saying, I hope it is a temporary thing until BA orders some more long-haul aircraft. But I'm not going to cry about it if they don't return on these routes!!


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 15):
but as with most of BA's strategies

Well correct me if Im wrong, but that sounds a bit like it was meant as a bad thing


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 16):
Well correct me if Im wrong, but that sounds a bit like it was meant as a bad thing

Well take it how you want to. But I think I should know. I was the one who posted the comment!


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

I flew on BA 767 G-BNWC "City of Frankfurt" from TLV to LHR... 11 years ago  Wow!

What are they using now on TLV flights? 777,757,320?


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7114 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 18):
What are they using now on TLV flights? 777,757,320?

Depart: LHR - London, United Kingdom (Heathrow)
Arrive: TLV - Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel (Ben Gurion)

Leg 1:
Depart: LHR 8:30a Terminal: 4
Arrive: TLV 3:10p Terminal: 3
Flight: BA 165 - British Airways
777 - Boeing 777 Passenger
Operating Carrier: British Airways
Total Duration: 4 hours 40 minutes


Depart: LHR - London, United Kingdom (Heathrow)
Arrive: TLV - Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel (Ben Gurion)

Leg 1:
Depart: LHR 10:30p Terminal: 4
Arrive: TLV 5:25a Terminal: 3
Flight: BA 163 - British Airways
767 - Boeing 767 Passenger
Operating Carrier: British Airways
Total Duration: 4 hours 55 minutes

JC



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Pittsburgh
Minneapolis
New Orleans
Bamako
Djibouti
Sana'a
Lahore
Karachi
Caracas
Bogota
Lima

While any kind of growth would be nice to see, these destinations are all off the cards for now, at least in my opinion.

Minneapolis: Not enough PAX and no NW partnership.
New Orleans: Seasonal at best.
Bamako: Small expat community, most of whom are French - AF have this.
Djibouti: Far too small a PAX base even AF cut back (2 weekly?)

Sana'a: Possible but IY, EK, GF, QR and RJ offer low prices and decent connections to Europe. Not to mention LH via CAI.

Lahore, Karachi could work if BA smartened up and opened up the route from the right UK city, don't mean to stereotype here but Birgmingham and Leed/Bradford would be the way to go.

Caracas, Bogota, Lima would probably be profitable but there are fatter fish to fry. Perhaps shuffle the metal allocation and start up LHR-LAS, VS seem to be cleaning up.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineNedson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Haven't QANTAS got quite a few of BA's 763s?

User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

The only one I could see them making a profit on is pittsburgh, minneapolis is just to dominant of Northwest european flights.


Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Quoting Nedson (Reply 21):
Haven't QANTAS got quite a few of BA's 763s?

I believe 2 or 3. I would like to see RDU. I believe BA could use a 767 dusk to replace the AA flight.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 23):
I believe 2 or 3. I would like to see RDU. I believe BA could use a 767 dusk to replace the AA flight.

I doubt AA would give up the RDU flight. It's an instant profit with subsidisation from GSK, who have a large manufacturing site in Crawley, just down the road from Gatwick.

Quoting Nedson (Reply 21):
Haven't QANTAS got quite a few of BA's 763s?

Yes, 7:

VH-ZXA (ex. G-BNWE)
VH-ZXB (ex. G-BNWF)
VH-ZXC (ex. G-BNWG)
VH-ZXD (ex. G-BNWJ)
VH-ZXE (ex. G-BNWK)
VH-ZXF (ex. G-BNWL)
VH-ZXG (ex. G-BNWP)


25 FlyDreamliner : I don't think LIM, BOG, or CCS are in, as the competition is too stiff from some of the other european airlines (IB especially) Bamako, Dijibouti and
26 Floridaflyboy : Just because a route was dropped doesn't mean it was unprofitable. It could simply mean that they could make MORE profit on a different route. I thin
27 Seanp11 : If BA were in Star, I could see it working. US has enough mainline to PIT to allow connections to augment PIT's O&D. Instead, they're Oneworld, and t
28 BALAX : Give the guy a break. If the demand is there and the economics of these cities make sense to BA in the future, who's to say they won't try them again
29 8herveg : Thankyou! Eventually, after 26 replies, somebody at least UNDERSTANDS what I am saying! And thankyou again!
30 Planesarecool : I didn't say it was unprofitable. I know for a fact that it was profitable. But if they drop it in favour of a more profitable route, then why are th
31 Donder10 : I think BA should start daily flights to Quebec City,N'Djamena,Pyongyang,Windhoek and Banjul all with 777s.What do you guys think?
32 8herveg : Where are these two places? They sound african and japanese respectively. The other 3 destinations I am in agreement with though!
33 8herveg : Found them....Chad and North Korea. Lol! I would think a 5 x weekly service to N'Djamena might work, but a daily 777 may be too much. A 767 would be
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