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Lion Air B737-400 Lost In Landing Accident  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4150 posts, RR: 37
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23126 times:

Haven´t seen it here. Thought it is worth to post that Lion Air has once again been able to get "rid" of one of their planes in a less-than-favourable-way.

PK-LIJ, a B737-400 (CN 24682), has been written of on December 24th when it overran the runway at Makassar airport, shearing off the landing gear. 162 people on board, no serious injuries. Flight JT792 was on its way from Jakarta to Tolotio via Makassar. Source is JACDEC:

http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm

Makes hull loss No. 4 or 5 for Lion Air... time for Boeing to re-think if Lion Air is a customer they want to deliver their shiny new 739ER to.

[Edited 2006-12-28 16:23:47]


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7211 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23080 times:

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1746

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 22994 times:

You know you can be an expat pilot and go fly 737's for them with like 300 hrs, no kidding.

Just in case anyone was interested in them  Wink

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7945 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22757 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
You know you can be an expat pilot and go fly 737's for them with like 300 hrs, no kidding.

Really? I know a dude who would go for it. How accurate is the number? You mean, they have lower standards than, say, Cathay, and they'll take you with 1,000 hours including 400 dual time? Or literally, 300 TT? Please elaborate, depending on your numbers, I could fill the entire rostering schedule at Lionair tomorrow.

PS agree about the wisdom of letting an accident prone airline launch a new type. Four write offs? How many have UA or AA had in the last decade? About the same, right? But with 800ish planes instead of 11. Right? Yikes.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22666 times:

I've heard of a few folks going over there, but keep in mind if you're in the US you'd have to convert your licenses...seeing as you're a Brit it probably wouldn't be a problem, but yeah, they took guys at dirt low times. I know you needed your cpl/atpl frozen, and now some sites are saying they actually want guys with time, but I believe they're still taking lowtimers. Mandala499 (his exact username escapes me) on here knows alot more about it.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22537 times:

This incident wasn't the first one for Lion and it will most certainly not be the last. More serious trouble will inevitably happen to this an a number of other low cost, low pay, low maintenance, low anything airlines in Indonesia for as long as the government turns a blind eye to all the malpractices in the domestic airline industry here. I have a picture of the incident, but I am unfortunately not able to post it thanks to an almost complete internet breakdown in South East Asia for the past 2 days.

It is highly likely, though, that it is not only the airline and its crew and equipment which are to be blamed for this debacle. Indonesia's domestic airports are often in a sorry state, and Makassar's Hasanudin International Airport is not exception. With the rainy season upon us, look for more similar incidents to happen, unfortunately.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22471 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
PS agree about the wisdom of letting an accident prone airline launch a new type. Four write offs? How many have UA or AA had in the last decade? About the same, right? But with 800ish planes instead of 11. Right? Yikes.

No doubt, that was a somewhat risky move by Boeing, but with the constantly growing number of 739ER orders, it was worth it.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 22355 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):

Makes hull loss No. 4 or 5 for Lion Air... time for Boeing to re-think if Lion Air is a customer they want to deliver their shiny new 739ER to.

Boeing isn't liable if Lion Air crashes an aircraft due to pilot error. It is the responsibility of local regulatory agencies to ensure that Lion Air has proper crew training and experience.

Should Boeing stop deliveries to GOL because they lost a 737-800 with nearly 150 people that was only 18 days old?

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
Four write offs? How many have UA or AA had in the last decade? About the same, right? But with 800ish planes instead of 11. Right? Yikes.

You're also talking about relativly old airframes with Lion Air.

The damage to this 734 does not sound all that severe, but if the airframe has been depreciated heavily, it makes more sense to just take a write-off and collect insurance.

The Southwest 73G that overran the airport perimeter at MDW would have surely been a write-off if a 737 Classic were involved. As it happened, the 73G was only 18 months old, so it made sense to spend millions on the repair work.


User currently offlineLeothedog From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20570 times:

*Adding Lion Air to my list of airlines to avoid*


I've got things to see and people to do.
User currently offline77411 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20290 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Makes hull loss No. 4 or 5 for Lion Air... time for Boeing to re-think if Lion Air is a customer they want to deliver their shiny new 739ER to.

I dont think Boeing cares as long as they get paid and the result of the hull loss is not a design issue. But I could be wrong.

Regards


User currently offlineThomson735 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19814 times:

Quoting 77411 (Reply 9):
I dont think Boeing cares as long as they get paid and the result of the hull loss is not a design issue. But I could be wrong

Partly true i feel, its like the discussion everytime a 737-200 crashes, usually a dodgy carrier, but its still on boeings name no matter what the cause,

They may be getting the $$$ for it but im sure boeing doesnt want a huge list of hull loses involving the aircraft they have designed and made


User currently offlineBingo From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19779 times:

Quote:
Makes hull loss No. 4 or 5 for Lion Air... time for Boeing to re-think if Lion Air is a customer they want to deliver their shiny new 739ER to.

Are you kidding? As long as their cash is green Boeing will make a killing on them!

Quote:
You know you can be an expat pilot and go fly 737's for them with like 300 hrs, no kidding.

Too cool! DeltaGuy...Which levels on Flight Simulator X do I have to finish to qualify?  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 18040 times:

Quoting Leothedog (Reply 8):
*Adding Lion Air to my list of airlines to avoid*

Excellent idea. I flew YOG-DPS-YOG with them last week on one of their MD82s. I boarded via the rear airstair and noticed a few screws missing near to the pressurized door at the back.

HW-IBC is right. The state of domestic airports here is awful at best. Taking off from Yogya is always exciting because the runway is so bumpy that when the plane accelerates the plane is constantly bumping up and down.


User currently offline9VSWA From Singapore, joined Dec 2006, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17971 times:

The level of safety with regard to some of the smaller and low-cost carriers in Indonesia is quite poor. Over the past year there have been numerous incidents involving low-csot Indonesian carriers. Lion Air is not the only airline with a poor safety record.

Call it coincidence if you wish, I caught PK-LIJ here in SIN just 3 days before the accident, on the 21st. Sad to see the aircraft gone so soon after I'd last seen it. The loss of PK-LIJ probably also explains why Lion Air MD-90s are becoming a regular sight in SIN again.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17761 times:

Quoting 9VSWA (Reply 13):
Lion Air is not the only airline with a poor safety record.

That's true. There is also Wings Air, which is Lion's low cost offspring - that begs the question how low in costs one can really go - and which has an equally dodgy record. Then there is also Adam Air , and its infamous incident where a B733 lost all communicational and navigational equipment and ended up on some airstrip over 700 miles away from its destination, not knowing where it actually landed. Further, Mandala Airlines provoked the last major crash last year when one of its B732s came down just after take of in Medan. The airline has since been forced to write off at least one more B732 when it overran the runway at Tarakan a month or two ago.

Incidents like these are all too common in Indonesia and are provoked by a combination of lack of experience in the cockpit, questionable safety and maintenance standards and poor infrastructure at local airports, for sure when the weather is not optimal. With the rainy season just about kicking off seriously, some local runways here become veritable deathtraps, yet, given the cut throat competition, pilots are under a lot of pressure from airline management to keep the operation running and make irresponsible decisions.

I'm pretty sure that it won't be long before we are all here gathered again to discuss the next incident in Indonesian domestic aviation. As long as the government is unwilling to drastically clean up the industry, things are unlikely to get any better.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14081 times:

Didn't Mandala Airlines have a runway overrun within the past few days, too? (I don't think this was a hull loss, though).

I agree, though, the accident record in Indonesia is quite serious; there have been quite a few overruns, resulting in hull losses and runway safety/navaid reliability as well as airport fire cover would need to be looked at; however, an overall cleanup is probably sorely needed.


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4150 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13640 times:

Quoting Bingo (Reply 11):
Are you kidding? As long as their cash is green Boeing will make a killing on them!

I am certainly not questioning the financial value of this customer to Boeing, I´m rather questioning the PR/reputation impact such a carrier could make on Boeing. Just imagine how the reaction of most people would be if they would read something like this:

"Boeing is denying and responsibility for the crash of Lion Air´s new B737-900ER, just delivered weeks ago. The plane is a brand-new version of the B737 of which Lion Air was the launch customer. So far the cause is not known. Until structural failure of this newly developed jet can be ruled out, operational restrictions will apply."

Now, imagine you are Joe Doe without any real association to aviation, which is the case with 99.9% of all people. What do you read? Boeing B737s are unsafe, especially the newly developed -900ER version. Certainly nothing you want to have when you are Boeing...



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2674 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13554 times:

Quoting Leothedog (Reply 8):
*Adding Lion Air to my list of airlines to avoid*

I have a really good friend of mine who will be travelling in Indonesia for the next two month. Are there any safe airlines for her to choose from? I really want to see her alive back here in Norway.  

[Edited 2006-12-29 15:37:00]


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12940 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
fly 737's for them with like 300 hrs

Nothing unusual in many Europen carriers, including the big names.

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12717 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 15):
Didn't Mandala Airlines have a runway overrun within the past few days, too? (I don't think this was a hull loss, though).

Mandala's last overrun was almost 2 months ago and involved a B732 at Tarakan. The aircraft was written off. That said, it is entirely possible that they had some other incident more recently. Overruns are so common here in Indonesia that they are no longer newsworthy.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 17):
I have a really good friend of mine who will be travelling in Indonesia for the next two month. Are there any safe airlines for her to choose from?

Better to stick with Garuda for domestic travel, or if your friend would like to go more budget, Air Asia Indonesia should ok as well. That isn't to say that all the others are per definition unsafe, but things can definitely get a bit hairy with some of those companies, for sure during the current rainy season, which is often plagued by lots of delays and irregular operations. I'd be glad to help out if your friends needs any specific help. Just send me a PM.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12661 times:

OK... Just been able to get on today thanks to the damn net being cut...

Another Lion bites the dust...
1 732, and at least 3 MD80s have been written off and now this 734...

Injuries: 2 pax during evacuation (rumours of pax initiating evacuation due to panic unconfirmed). 1 was in shock.

Aircraft was actually doing the Jakarta-Makassar-Gorontalo run, not Tolotio...

How the story went in the media was a bit humourous...
First, Metro reported the accident happened during take off (see last paragraph in this reply), then everyone else said it was during landing.
Then, weather was blamed and the aircraft slipped during landing.
This was denied by the airport who stated it happened in clear weather.
Then, someone mentioned Lion saying some ridiculous comment that the aircraft became unbalanced due to water...
This was quickly rebuked by Lion's PR man who said something along the lines of "Don't make silly speculations" and "Don't speculate".
Then, an insider mentioned the condition of the landing gear in a local forum.
This was followed by Lion stating it happened during landing, and that the landing gear collapsed on landing, the cause of which is under investigation.

Sounds like they tried to wriggle their way through the crisis with disinfo but then got check-mated...

Quote:
Quotes from selected Indonesian news media:
"The aircraft stopped 100m out of the runway and is visible from the waiting room" (Detik.com)
Pax: "A loud bang was heard during landing and smoke was seen out of the wing"(detik.com)
Pax: "During landing, a loud roar was heard." "Not long after that, a loud bang was heard." (detik.com)
Airport PR: Damage is heavy, "Probably a total loss, major damage. Not likely to be used again." (detik.com)
"Right main gear detached, left engine cover detached, left main wheel folded and penetrated the wing. This was caused by the aircraft exiting the runway. Right stabilizer was hit by the tires." (Detik.com)
"Yan (Airport PR) rebuked comments the aircraft slipped due to the wet slippery runway. The weather was clear this morning."(Source: Detik.Com)
"5 impact points on the runway require repairs. Aircraft position is between taxiway A and C, 1500m along and on the left side of the runway. Nosegear detached and came to rest 100m from the aircraft in an open field while the left and right engine covers were detached and were found 200m from the aircraft." (Kompas.com)

Sounds like a high speed runway excursion... but then, I haven't seen the plane. Maybe HB-IWC can provide info on the aircraft's location... or even post the pics.

Someone posted in the local Indonesian aviation forum that everything was OK, landing gear indication was OK, weather wasn't the problem, but upon touchdown, apparently the landing gear didn't lock properly or a problem occured and it collapsed.

---

Quote:
You know you can be an expat pilot and go fly 737's for them with like 300 hrs, no kidding.

Dang! Deltaguy had to remember my username! LOL
They've stopped that program... But then, they decided to hijack the 738 pilots from Garuda, and also grabbing 732 and classics pilot from Adam Air to have enough when the 739ER comes in...

Previous requirements for expat pilots were 250hrs on type... 1000hrs total would land you in their "beloved" MD82...

Any pilots with foreign licenses has to have them re-endorsed. No exceptions. But, no expat pilots anymore guys, unless it comes with the leasing package as part of the type introduction period.
---

PR between Lion and Makassar's airport hasn't been rosy.
Lion has the highest number of accidents at the airport... mostly overruns and tyre bursts. It became so often that Lion's PR had accused the airport of sabotage by putting spikes on the runway!

The reasons why Makassar seems so risky is the topography surrounding the airport... the smooth (I mean SMOOTH) asphalt doesn't help...

The runway is 13/31... to enter 31, one must do a visual circuit. The aiming point for left visual 31 is a hill, you enter the base leg as near as you can to the hill, keeping it to your right (it's a 700ft hill I think), and commence the turn to final abeam of the next hill on your right (a 500 footer-ish), and stable on final by (300ft?) abeam of the hill to the right of the centerline... in marginal VMC, poor lights, and turbulence, one can easily end up in an unstable approach on this one... and I've heard a few ending up too high and too fast.

The right pattern isn't much better either... you skirt the mountains on the left on downwind, enter baseleg aiming for the 2 hills used for the boundaries of the left pattern, and then join the final before that 300footer to the right of the centerline... and sometimes you end up with some very low breakoffs... the Britannia 767s were great spectacles in the days when they operated the Hajj there (now MYT)...

Then you got ILS13... which when the wind is from the mountains, becomes quite bumpy... A few late touchdowns and the downslope near the end doesn't help when wet... Many are happy to do tailwind landings on 13... but when wet, many would still do it as it is still less risky than the visual 31 in marginal weather despite the wind direction. Though one tail wind night landing did end up with a nose first landing by a 732 (and a huge maintenance bill). But when there's a lot of departing traffic, it's visual 31... A straight in visual 31 is possible, but the letdowns are steep due to the surrounding mountains, and I've been told it's one heck of a ride doing that approach.

Well, they're making a new runway on a different heading...
-----

Quote:
The loss of PK-LIJ probably also explains why Lion Air MD-90s are becoming a regular sight in SIN again.

Yeaps, and those MD90s are now flying into airports that reportedly have not been checked by the DGAC to be suitable/approved for MD90 operations! I guess Lion just used the reason of "it's just like an MD80 but 2meters longer." HECK, it's a different type certificate!

Quote:
Incidents like these are all too common in Indonesia and are provoked by a combination of lack of experience in the cockpit,

While I tend to disagree on experience as the reason, though it is a definite risk. Commercial pressures by the management seems to be the problem. It is forcing pilots to yield... Remember the 17 pilots Adam took out of the rosters and wouldn't fly them until they quit and when they quit Adam sued them for about 100k USD each? Those 17 were the ones who didn't want to put up with the management forcing them to fly regardless of the aircraft condition or weather.

Quote:
Didn't Mandala Airlines have a runway overrun within the past few days, too?

Yes... In Malang Airport... it's quite a challenging airport in itself with mountains on both sides and an MSA of 13,000ft... This one wasn't a write off though. Silly, but a friend of mine almost diverted to Surabaya from Malang because the airport forgot to switch on the VOR...

Quote:
Just imagine how the reaction of most people would be if they would read something like this:

Well, news from inside and from cargo operators is that Lion will impose a different set of operating rules on the 739 when they are received. This include operational safety, cargo restrictions and loading... We'll see how it goes...
---

Quote:
Are there any safe airlines for her to choose from?

Others may disagree, but this is the order on safety... Based on discussions with crew on company operating procedures, maintenance operator, and whatever else... but NOT statistics.
Safe: Garuda, Merpati (Jet), Sriwijaya, Express, Batavia (A319 only)
Safe-ish: Mandala, Indonesia Air Asia, Kartika
Mild Risk: Merpati (prop), Batavia (A319 excluded), Lion Air (MD90 and 734)
Big Risk: Adam Air, Wings Air, Lion Air (non 734)
---

I find it strange that Metro reported it happening on take off... Everyone else reported the incident happening on landing.
Metro quoted 0835WIB (0130UTC) take off when the accident happened and the aircraft had landed at 0700WIB (0000UTC)... now, Lion doesn't do 1h35 domestic transits unless there's a problem.
The other medias reported the accident as happening during landing at 0835WITA (0035UTC), this is consistent with 0530WIB (2230UTC) scheduled departure as it is a 2h-2h15 flight between CGK and UPG.

Hope I didn't write too much or caused confusion...

Cheers,

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12643 times:

Indonesia Air Asia has been suffering from many delays, due to maintenance... this is partly attributed to poor spare parts coming in from Air Asia Malaysia because of the switchover to the A320... but GA can have some bargains if you're lucky!

For Tech delay problems, I would GUESS the most reliable on schedule (weather delays not included) would be: GA, Express, Sriwijaya, Batavia, Kartika, Merpati, Lion Air, Mandala, Adam..

Btw, for budget, forget Lion, their fares are often higher than GA (why people are willing to pay for that and only get mineral water instead of a reliable schedule and a meal with GA baffles me!)... And I've flown a few times when GA's fare (yes, GA, not Citilink, not promo fare, but quite "last minute") is cheaper than everyone (well, Air Asia didn't fly the route)...

My company has barred Adam and Wings for senior managers, and put Sriwijaya as the preferred carrier, but as Sriwijaya is often full, Garuda is the next preferred airline, and Lion is only when <90% of the GA fare... and when it's an MD80 flight, the company recommends cancelling and rebooking on another flight or another airline.
----

HB-IWC, Mandala's last overrun was 18th Dec in Malang due to wet runway (again)...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2674 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12535 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 19):
Better to stick with Garuda for domestic travel, or if your friend would like to go more budget, Air Asia Indonesia should ok as well. That isn't to say that all the others are per definition unsafe, but things can definitely get a bit hairy with some of those companies, for sure during the current rainy season, which is often plagued by lots of delays and irregular operations. I'd be glad to help out if your friends needs any specific help. Just send me a PM.

Thank you very much for that. It is good to know that help is not far away. My friend will arrive in Indonesia with a group of Norwegian students on the fourth of January.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 20):
Others may disagree, but this is the order on safety... Based on discussions with crew on company operating procedures, maintenance operator, and whatever else... but NOT statistics.
Safe: Garuda, Merpati (Jet), Sriwijaya, Express, Batavia (A319 only)
Safe-ish: Mandala, Indonesia Air Asia, Kartika
Mild Risk: Merpati (prop), Batavia (A319 excluded), Lion Air (MD90 and 734)
Big Risk: Adam Air, Wings Air, Lion Air (non 734)

Thank you very much for your information. That was very help full.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 20):
Hope I didn't write too much or caused confusion...

Nope, not at all. Very interesting to know all this.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 21):
Indonesia Air Asia

My friend will arrive on Air Asia from SIN or Malaysia.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12468 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 19):
Overruns are so common here in Indonesia that they are no longer newsworthy.

I was assuming the runway at Ujung Pandang (Makassar) was puny, then I checked, it is 2500m (8200ft)....and the weather was clear?

Interesting.

And this is the launch airline for the 737-900ER. Ow.



Delete this User
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12447 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 23):
And this is the launch airline for the 737-900ER. Ow.

The -900ER is a minimal cost derivative. The phrase "big deal" comes to mind. It isn't as if they hold the crucial order for a major project like the 787 or A380.


25 Post contains images Bingo : I know what you are saying. My point was that when I read that Paris Hilton wrecks her Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes...I dont associate those brands as bein
26 HB-IWC : Well, Garuda operated a daily DC10 into Makassar twice daily for years and as far as I know there were never any incidents like this one. True, the a
27 Scorpy : Unfortunately we're going to be seeing more and more 737 crashes as more of the classics make their way to shady operators. For this reason alone its
28 Mandala499 : HB-IWC, Overruns nowadays just have a reaction of "Oh, another one?" Sometimes, people just don't bother, unless it's Lion, Mandala or Adam... while w
29 HAWK21M : Whats this. regds MEL
30 Zeke : Maybe not Cannot think of how an excursion would cause an impact point on a runway. Am I missing something ?
31 Scorpy : what i mean is that as more and more 737's are getting to carriers with poor maintenance records, the public will see more and more reports of 737 cr
32 HAWK21M : True.But then Boeing has no control over how these operators run Older craft.The Regulatory Authorities of those countries should be more strict.This
33 Scorpy : Indeed. So this is why i think they will at least consider this. The name of a product is an important factor in its positioning and marketing and so
34 Mandala499 : "Touchdown, landing gear collapses, impact points on the runway, the leaves the runway" perhaps? Well, if what I hear is right... I'll avoid the airl
35 N757KW : This is for Mandala499 and HB-IWC, I am curious are landing speeds higher in Indonesia? The reason I asked is because, it just seems that the B737s an
36 Mandala499 : N757KW, Relatively low winds... also the tendency of taking a tailwind landing up to the tailwind limitations in order to take the easy approach other
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