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777 Powered With PW Engines: Which Airlines?  
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10616 times:

Which airlines use PW engines to power their 777s?
I know about Egyptair.But who else?
And are these engines more or less powerful than the GE90 and the RR engines that power the 777-200ER?


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34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10614 times:

United, who is a traditional P&W customer, operates P&W-powered 777s.


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User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10606 times:

ANA (except the -300ER) and KL

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10585 times:

I thought that KL 777 were powered with GE?!


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User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4773 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10610 times:

AI, whose 777s are ex-UA are all PW powered. PW has the lowest powered engines on the 772 but the highest available thrust on the 773 with the PW 4098 (non-ER), however these aren't popular because of the high fuel consumption. KE is the operator of this type.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29674 posts, RR: 84
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10596 times:
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Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
And are these engines more or less powerful than the GE90 and the RR engines that power the 777-200ER?

Yes, the P&W PW4090 is the weakest of the three powerplants available for the 777-200ER at 90,000lbs. The Rolls-Royce Trent 895 generates 93,400 lb and the General Electric 90-94B generates 93,700 lb, all per Boeing's website at http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_200product.html.

P&W does offer a 99,000lb version - the PW4098 - but it is used only on the 777-300A model, I believe.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10590 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):

Sorry, meant KE!


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10585 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):
I thought that KL 777 were powered with GE?!

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User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10565 times:

The GE are the most impressive!!!I enjoyed them on AF 772s last summer!!!


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User currently offlineMarkC From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10479 times:

JAL
Vietnam
Air China

Pratt took all the 4098's back from Korean. There are now no operators of this engine.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10437 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
P&W does offer a 99,000lb version - the PW4098 - but it is used only on the 777-300A model, I believe.

As was mentioned, no PW4098s are currently in service anywhere, and though they remain an option, they aren't really, due to their significant technical issues, which was the reason PW was forced to take them back in the first place.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
The GE are the most impressive!!!I enjoyed them on AF 772s last summer!!!

The GE90-94's on the 772ER for AF are the most powerful engines on the 772ER frame, and in general, the GE90s are known to have the lowest burn rate at cruise of the 3 major engine choices (GE90, PW4000, and RR Trent 800), however they are also the heaviest engines available. The RR Trents have the highest SFC at cruise (though the difference between the three engines is not that significant anyhow), and by some number of tons, the lightest engine available. The PW4000 slots between the two in this regard.

As for US operators of the 777, UA's fleet uses PW's, AA uses RR's, DL uses RR's on their 772ERs, and has ordered GE's on their 772LRs, CO has GE90's on their 777 fleet.

Other major 777 operators - Singapore has RR's on their 772ERs and GE's on their 773ERs, as mentioned, Korean has PW's on their 772ERs, AF and KL have GE's on their 772ER and 773ERs, BA has a mix of GE's and RR's on their 777 fleet, Saudi Arabian has GE's on its fleet of 772ER's, I believe ANA's 777s are PW powered, and while I am not certain, I believe Malaysia's may be GE powered, however I'm not certain on that one.



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User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10406 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
I believe ANA's 777s are PW powered, and while I am not certain, I believe Malaysia's may be GE powered, however I'm not certain on that one.

NH's 777-200's are PW powered but their -300ER's are GE powered. Also MH's 777's are actually powered by RR.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29674 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10400 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
As was mentioned, no PW4098s are currently in service anywhere, and though they remain an option, they aren't really, due to their significant technical issues, which was the reason PW was forced to take them back in the first place.

I had thought there was an issue with the PW4098 (emissions?), but wasn't positive so I didn't want to note it in case I was incorrect.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10390 times:

JL's 777-200s are PW4077 powered but their -200ERs are GE and their -300ERs are GE. Their -300s are PW4090.


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User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10377 times:

This is an interesting link of all 777s. I don't know how up to date it is.

http://web.archive.org/web/200302180...bird.ch/bharms/boeing/b777_t_0.htm


User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1219 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10345 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
P&W does offer a 99,000lb version - the PW4098 - but it is used only on the 777-300A model, I believe.



Quoting MarkC (Reply 9):
Pratt took all the 4098's back from Korean. There are now no operators of this engine.

This is correct. From what I understand KE was the only airline to order the 4098, but the engine was such a lemon, as in it had very poor dispatch reliability, and its fuel consumption was inordinately high, that all of the engines were removed from service to be replaced with 4090s. I would assume this was much to the chagrin of KE, as their 777-300s certainly lost performance capability with the loss of 10,000 lbs of thrust on each engine. As far as I know the engine has no plans of being ordered by any other airline, and will go down with no orders. UA, the largest operator of PW powered 777s has -76s on their A model planes, and detuned 90s on their ERs, making them incapable of performing many of the operations seen by other companies 777ERs, and even Uniteds own 744s



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User currently offlineMarkC From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10248 times:

I forgot, Asiana is also a PW operator.

As for the 4098, it is not oferred anymore. Now that there are no more in service, PW can discontinue their support for the engine. This means spare parts and manual updates. Someone told me that the loss of thrust was a wash as the engines used more fuel than a 4090, and would use any extra fuel on a long trip that would be able to be lifted by the bigger engines.

PW made 3 distinct versions of the 112" 4000.

1. 4074/4077 was the initial model, found mostly at United, JAL, and ANA. Only 777-200. The only difference in the thrust is the programming plug.

2. 4090 has an extra LPC and extra LPT stage. This is for the -200ER or the -300. A 4084 is merely a derated 4090. Only a few operators do this. Operators of 4077's and 4090's occaisionally derate their 4090's to 4077 level to use them in place of a true 4077. This is the only reason a United 4090 would be "detuned".

3. 4098 with another additional LPC stage, but the same LPT as the 4090. Only a few were ever made (maybe 12). Some are now in museums.


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10172 times:

In the early days of the 777 programme PW were running away with it. They got the big UA launch order (34 firm + 34 options) and quickly followed with other major deals. One I still remember was ANA. ANA were about to choose the RR Trent when BA opted for GE. Alarmed, NH switched to PW. For the first half dozen years or more there were more PW-powered 777s flying than either GE or RR. Then RR overtook them and latterly GE have overtaken both. PW now has the smallest share of the 777 programme and that's now very unlikely to change.

PW 777 airlines?

Air China
ANA
Asiana
Egyptair
JAL (and JAS before the merger)
Korean
United
Vietnam

Several of the above also operate or have ordered GE-powered versions as well.


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10130 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 17):
PW 777 airlines?

Air China
ANA
Asiana
Egyptair
JAL (and JAS before the merger)
Korean
United
Vietnam

Oh, and - of course - such airlines as have picked up ex-UA planes: Air India, Varig (as was) and...?


User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10106 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 15):
UA, the largest operator of PW powered 777s has -76s on their A model planes, and detuned 90s on their ERs, making them incapable of performing many of the operations seen by other companies 777ERs, and even Uniteds own 744s

What is the real range of UA's 777's based on their configuration, engines and MTOW selection?


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
I had thought there was an issue with the PW4098 (emissions?), but wasn't positive so I didn't want to note it in case I was incorrect.

Wasn't the problem with the PW4098 solely related to the engine being a fuel guzzler, while the PW4090 is the one with the emmisions problem, which forces operators of the PW4090 to derate their engines to comply with emmision regulations?

I also heard somewhere that the PW4098 became a real embarrassment to Boeing because of its high fuel consumption. Is that true?


User currently offlineBoeing764 From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10067 times:

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 4):
AI, whose 777s are ex-UA are all PW powered.

I was on the Boeing factory tour yesterday and in the final assembly position was line number 610 a 777-200 (looked like an LR because of the wing tips) for Air India and I think it had P&W engines.
BTW. Is Air India changing their color scheme? I ask that because although the aircraft wasn't painted the rudder was red and the engine nacelles were red.

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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10054 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 18):
Oh, and - of course - such airlines as have picked up ex-UA planes: Air India, Varig (as was) and...?

Varig used 4 PW powered birds. 2 with PW4074 (PP-VRI/PP-VRJ, both 200A) and 2 with PW4090 (PP-VRE/PP-VRF, both 200ER). PP-VRI and VRJ has been just returned.

VRE/VRF already on ground without engines.

Felipe



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User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9964 times:

Quoting Boeing764 (Reply 21):
line number 610 a 777-200 (looked like an LR because of the wing tips) for Air India and I think it had P&W engines.

No, #610 is a -200LR with GE. Air India have no PW-powered 777s on order. Indeed, hardly anyone does. Korean have anoter 5 to come and Asiana have another half dozen or so. Does ANA still have any PW -200s on order? Either way, there can't be many more than a dozen or so PW-powered 777s to be built.


User currently offlineAirmansv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

Guys.

Please understand the definition of Thrust.

All these figures you are looking at that are in brochures etc are Max Take-off static Thrust, which is meaningless when you start to use this parameter for comparisons. The thrust at mach number including at rotation (,22 etc) is really what counts. Just because RR or a GE engine NEEDS to HAVE a higher static thrust does not mean that they have higher power at all. On the contrary they have to have this higher static thrust in ordr to provide the REQUIRED spec thrust at Mach number, which can translate to higher operating temperatures in the turbine and LOWER reliability.

Henceplease understand these parameters before you start to use them for comparison purposes indescriminately.


25 Vasu : That's interesting... does anyone know anything?
26 OyKIE : Why was the PW4000 for the 777 much worse than the PW4000 for the 767/747? IIRC those engines was the preferred choice for those planes as well as th
27 MarkC : I don't know why PW lost share so fast. I'll speculate that the 4000 is an older design. It entered service in '86/'87 or so. So it hit the 747/767 s
28 Stitch : Fair enough, but would you be so kind as to point us to the relevant information for all the engine families? I'm not using the Boeing/Airbus/P&W/RR/
29 PlaneHunter : Air Austral's three B772ERs are PW-powered, too. And only four out of VN's ten B777s are PW-powered. PH
30 PM : Actually, GE outsold PW on both the 747-400 and 767 and RR have comfortably outsold PW on the A330. While we're at it, the CF6 outsold the PW4000 on
31 FL370 : IIRC i think almost all of UA;s planes are PW powered. fl370
32 PM : Yes, where they have that option: 747s, 757s, 767s and 777s.
33 Amirs : Its impossible to have 772LR with PW's. Both the 773ER and 772LR come exclusively with GE. That is probably one of the main reasons why the GE starte
34 PM : I think it's the only reason!
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