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Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM  
User currently offlineMXComet4C From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7850 times:

According to www.flightstats.com, KLM by codesharing, can do Europe-America-Asia-Europe without stopping in the US or Canada:

(Mondays & Thursdays)
Amsterdam Schipol KL0685 Dep 13:00 Arr 17:50 AMS-MEX
Mexico City Juarez KL9032 Dep 21:45 Arr 06:45+2 MEX-TIJ-NRT
Tokyo Narita KL0862 Dep 12:20 Arr 16:20 NRT-AMS
Amsterdam Schipol

Can any other airline do the same without going through US/Canadian immigration & airports? Maybe via Africa/South America/Oceania/Antartica?

[Edited 2007-01-02 08:20:24]

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7822 times:

With code-sharing, I would think any alliance would be possible to do a RTW with out flying into Canada or the US.

As an example, you could take IB from Madrid to Santiago, then with LAN to Sydney, with Qantas to London and BA back to Madrid. All with One World.

[Edited 2007-01-02 08:11:25]


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

I didn't realize that Canadian immigration was a hassle for passengers connecting on to other international destinations. Wouldn't Mexican customs be required to get on a MEX-TIJ flight and wouldn't be greater because it is a domestic flight?

In YVR currently and in February at T1 in YYZ there is a normal customs by-pass for international connections.


User currently offlineMXComet4C From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7797 times:

Dear Canadian friends: Please excuse the word hassle in my previous post. I just edited it. I meant it for our common neighbor only.

Anyway, the main focus is: Can you go on a single airline designator around the world without stopping at the big Canadian and American airports like YYZ, YVR, JFK, LAX, etc.?


User currently offlineSB From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

No no ... Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians  Wink That being said I don't know how picky we are on visas and such, but the interrogatory is enough for me.

It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

S.



"Confirm leave the hold and maintain 320kts?!"
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7728 times:

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 3):
Dear Canadian friends: Please excuse the word hassle in my previous post. I just edited it. I meant it for our common neighbor only.

So it's cool to insult the United States, but not Canada?


User currently offlineMXComet4C From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7708 times:

There are absolutely no insults intended for anyone here.
Fact: US regulations are a hassle for foreigners traveling through the USA.
Can't we just focus on the question?:

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 3):
Can you go on a single airline designator around the world without stopping at the big Canadian and American airports like YYZ, YVR, JFK, LAX, etc.?


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 6):
There are absolutely no insults intended for anyone here.

Thanks. I appreciate it.  smile  As for the question, I'm really not sure -- nothing is coming to mind right now.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians

It is highly irregular for a Canadian citizen to ever have contact with an immigration officer at an airport. The only time this would happen is if the frontline customs officer had doubts regarding the authenticity of the document provided by the person claiming to be a canadian citizen (eg. fake passport).


User currently offlineAnax From Greece, joined Sep 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 5):
So it's cool to insult the United States, but not Canada?

why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.



god is a spotter!!!
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7298 times:

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

Historically Canadian airports have never been places with any significant international-to-international transit pax. Therefore not a pressing concern to build those facilities.
Now however things have changed and places like YVR and YYZ are beginning to market themselves as connection hubs for their home airlines and to international carriers as an alternative to a USA transit.
I'm not sure about YVR's international-to-international transit facilities but YYZ will have their facilities operational from Feb. 1, 2007.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

I don't really recall that. True, on arrival CBP tend to be slightly less friendly than their European counterparts, especially on flights originating in Latin America, but if you're friendly and cooperate they will return the favor.

On departure there aren't really any procedures to speak of. Once I checked in for my CO flight to GYE at EWR, and the check-in agent forgot to collect my US departure card from my passport. They tracked me down just as the door L1 was to be shut, and in a very friendly manner, with a lot of apologies, asked me for my passport to remove the thing.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 11):
On departure there aren't really any procedures to speak of. Once I checked in for my CO flight to GYE at EWR, and the check-in agent forgot to collect my US departure card from my passport. They tracked me down just as the door L1 was to be shut, and in a very friendly manner, with a lot of apologies, asked me for my passport to remove the thing.

You're visa waiver eligible, if you're not it becomes a completely different story.


User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7086 times:

US immigration is a great pain, and so is Canadian.

I had a US immigration officer throw my passport at me after he stamped it and I had to pick it up on the floor... Trust me I had not done anything wrong, I was polite and smiling ... until then. Now I barely say hi, I am legal anyway so no worries. And you know what? I get better treatment.

As for the Canadians, they always treat you like you are trying to immigrate illegally and smuggle goods. I also had a custom officer one day who put his foot in the way of my luggage cart to block the wheel. What was that for? Did he think I would run away so fast pushing my cart that he would not be able to catch me?

They have to remember, again and again, that over 99% of travellers are legal and honest, so they should not be treated like dogs!


User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

As regards code sharing around the world (the initial question) ... good you found KLM, I can't think of any airline, particularly avoiding the US and Canada.

User currently offlineLHRGregSE4 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6933 times:

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
No no ... Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians That being said I don't know how picky we are on visas and such, but the interrogatory is enough for me.

It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

S.

Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

Quoting LHRGregSE4 (Reply 15):

Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want.

If the airport is secure enough that someone who is a transiting passenger can't leave the building without clearing customs then why would there be any advantage for customs/immigration to talk to international connecting passengers? The idea that you have nothing to hide so they can ask you anything they want doesn't repect your time and privacy considering that such questions are irrelevant to passengers continuing on to some other place. Before a government department hassles people with questions, retina scans, fingerprints, etc they should have some evidence that this makes a meaningful contribution to solving a problem. I'm pretty sure people on this forum can come up with questions you don't want to answer honestly regardless of whether or not you feel you have something to hide. You shouldn't have to provide your credit card if you aren't buying anything just like you shouldn't have to go through immigraton in a country you are not immigrating to or staying in.


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

Since when is there a TIJ-NRT flight? that's pretty awkward !
Who operates it ?



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineAviationmaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6168 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 17):
Since when is there a TIJ-NRT flight? that's pretty awkward !
Who operates it ?

The TIJ-NRT is Aeromexico's new B777 flight which originates in MEX. I think the TIJ stop is for refuelling.


User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6129 times:

I am a US citizen and flight crew. In my travels worldwide I have to say by far the worst treatment I have recieved was upon entry back into my own country.

Not meant to be a blanket statement as the incidents were extremely isolated. But so far unique to the US.


User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6129 times:

Quoting LHRGregSE4 (Reply 15):
Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want

Never have had any problems in the US or Canada, just zip right through, even with my family in tow. Had problems in th UK and other European destinations. I think that if you are honest and tell the truth you will not have a problem. But as I have seen a lot of people try to make themselves important and that is when they have problems, they are always in a rush. I have been told by an immigration friend of mine that when people get uppity that is when they will make sure you don't enjoy your trip through customs. Be patient, wait your turn and do not push and argue



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

US customs n immigration can be a pain alright but not on departure. You don't even come into contact with them when leaving the country, period.


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

All this stimulating discussion makes me wonder, is it possible to go 'round the globe on one airline without stopping at any of North America's more fascinating departure lounges, complete with fake Starbucks knockoffs?

User currently offlineManny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

You do not come in contact with immigration & customs while leaving the country. I don't know what the fuss is all about. In my personal experience US immigration & custom officers vary from being professional to friendly.


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

Quoting Manny (Reply 23):

You do not come in contact with immigration & customs while leaving the country. I don't know what the fuss is all about. In my personal experience US immigration & custom officers vary from being professional to friendly.

My experience has been the same. One has to admit that, at the end of the day, customs & immigration people aren't customer service representatives. They're enforcing the law. In an age of trans-border terrorism, this sort of law enforcement is important; no matter how much we dislike the increase in airport security around the world post 9/11, I don't think anyone would say that it would be prudent to go back the ideal of the 1990s: no borders, anywhere, just cheap flights everywhere (with lots of sex and boozing once you get there).

Sorry for the rant.


25 Post contains images SlowBus : It's interesting development after 9/11. Before it, the US were conceived by myself as a state, which may be strange or silly in some aspects, but nev
26 Anax : what about the humiliating security control? because we seem to forget easily....
27 Post contains images TinkerBelle : Don't know about cheap in the 90's though...unless you meant cheap sex.. Humiliating?? Why is it that foreigners are the only one who complain about
28 MXComet4C : Is there, I mean it, -is there- another way to go around the world on one single airline designator avoiding the US and Canada?
29 MD13 : In a few years from now you are going to be able to fly around the world with one airline, and that airline is..... Emirates!!!! No need for an allian
30 Viscount724 : You can do it today on Air New Zealand. Since they started their second daily AKL-LHR flight via HKG, NZ is the only current round the world operator
31 Ikramerica : Flight crew are known for smuggling (very, very small percentage, but busts occur regularly enough), thus when returning to your home nation, I would
32 EnviroTO : Foreigners now have to scan their fingerprint on departure from the US so while the departure isn't time consuming it is a requirement not seen in ma
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