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Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami  
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8101 times:

Just heard from a friend that UA is coming down to two mainline flights to ORD, two express flights to IAD and eliminating DEN service, all from MIA. I checked the website and mainline flights to all 3 destinations are still loaded through at least August (latest I checked). Any news out there? Thx!

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

I'm not surprised by this, if it turns out to be true. AA has been killing them for years at MIA. With no int'l flights to feed, no reason for a lot of extra mainline flights if they're not profitable. Besides, doesn't Ted operate flights into FLL?

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 1):
I'm not surprised by this, if it turns out to be true. AA has been killing them for years at MIA. With no int'l flights to feed, no reason for a lot of extra mainline flights if they're not profitable. Besides, doesn't Ted operate flights into FLL?

Ted also runs the MIA station, there are no mainline flights there anymore. Not surprised by UA's move, either.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8031 times:

I doubt this only because of the new terminal for Star being built. There is some contractual clause demanding a certain amount of flights per day and since UA and US are the only real airlines who can do that, I doubt UA will downsize any more. Plus, there was a "rumor" here a couple months ago that UA would INCREASE MIA, rather than decrease it.

User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

I would be surprised by this as well. The gossip I've heard is that MIA is doing better since converting to Ted. Rumor is that UA mainline may start SFO and possibly LAX nonstops later this year.


"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32878 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7903 times:

That would really surprise me. Not serving Miami from such a large hub? I doubt it. Plus Ted has performed very, very well at MIA.


a.
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3412 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7891 times:

Man the new Star terminal at MIA is going to be pretty empty

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 3):
I doubt this only because of the new terminal for Star being built.

Why would *A be building a terminal at MIA? Something about that just doens't sound right. It's not a hub for any *A member and it's a huge mega hub for AA. Whomever thought that was a brilliant idea should really think again. But then again, I'm just looking at it from the inside out.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2053 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7782 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7):
Why would *A be building a terminal at MIA? Something about that just doens't sound right. It's not a hub for any *A member and it's a huge mega hub for AA. Whomever thought that was a brilliant idea should really think again. But then again, I'm just looking at it from the inside out.

Erm... well it's already been built. UA used to have a relatively big presence at MIA, so the hub was designed to be occupied by them, US, LH, and RG.

Cheers,
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | AV MIA-BOG-MIA | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD
User currently offlineTommy777 From Norway, joined May 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7679 times:

Quoting Ualcsr (Thread starter):
Just heard from a friend that UA is coming down to two mainline flights to ORD, two express flights to IAD and eliminating DEN service, all from MIA. I checked the website and mainline flights to all 3 destinations are still loaded through at least August (latest I checked). Any news out there? Thx!

There has been only 2 TED flights ORD-MIA-ORD daily for a while.

I have heard the total opposite, though. I have heard that UA plans to expand in the new terminal.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7633 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 6):
Man the new Star terminal at MIA is going to be pretty empty

Yeah,with RG leaving the Star Alliance ,that doesn't help things....



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

More updates from my UA grapevine:

Sorry for the mainline; I meant Ted. First, I'm one of many furloughed UA/MIA CSRs so anytime a rumor starts, it gets around our group pretty quickly. Again, only rumor so far.

The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express. This would only be a decrease in capacity and would leave the door open for the rumored mainline expansion to LAX and SFO once the South terminal opens. More updates as they become available.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7558 times:

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 11):
The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express. This would only be a decrease in capacity and would leave the door open for the rumored mainline expansion to LAX and SFO once the South terminal opens.

UA should simply bite the bullet and either buy new planes or exercise its options on the A319s/20s. That way they wouldn't have to make choices between turning good performing routes over to Express contractors in favor of expanding with mainline to other cities. At some point...like today....they'll need more mainline capacity. Flying Express from hubs to cities like Peoria and Roanoke may be one thing, but Express from ORD and IAD to a large tourist/business city like Miami is another.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8386 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7539 times:
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UA has been downsizing in Miami for too many years. If they downsize any more, its called closing down. First Latin America got down sized from 777 to 767 and then only to EZE & GRU. UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.

User currently offlineTommy777 From Norway, joined May 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
UA has been downsizing in Miami for too many years. If they downsize any more, its called closing down. First Latin America got down sized from 777 to 767 and then only to EZE & GRU. UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.

Yeah, the whopping 2X ORD-FLL, 1X IAD/DEN/FLL makes UAs presence at FLL ENORMOUS :P

OT, Rant start about Miami and UA at MIA:

I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 11):
The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express

That apparently is the actual case eff late April with 70 seaters on the Express.

One reason suggested is MIA Airport cost structure is far out of line and prohibitively expensive on a per pax basis. As an example you do not see Jet Blue, Frontier, or Southwest on that field even though there is quite a bit of empty gate space currently.

Secondly MIA airport as a whole poor ratings among travelers and it's perceived 3rd world status probably plays a role in this.

Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

Lastly, with RG out of Star a couple weeks ago it only leaves LH and UA...not a whole lot of reason for a new concourse where rents will increase yet again.

re the suggestion of west coast nonstops out of MIA...I don't see that happening with this downsizing.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7231 times:

AA is the huge operation at MIA. DL even pulled their SLC-MIA flight (on a 738) not long ago and only have flights to ATL, CVG, JFK and LGA from there if I recall correctly. They have 9 flights daily to ATL on 738s and 752s including one non-ER 763. To LGA they offer 2 MD-88s per day. To JFK they offer 1 MD-88, and one OH CRJ flight to CVG along with an MD-88. Pretty slim pickings compared to what AA offers.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

Hence the reason for growth at FLL and PBI. If FLL could get a second runway in they could put a dent in the competition against MIA since I think there would be a rush to put a hub there. US tried and it didn't work, but FLL is a big airport with B6, F9 and of course WN.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7180 times:

I spoke to someone who was at the briefing at UA/MIA when the announcement was made. The change of equipment for IAD/ORD was confirmed.



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Secondly MIA airport as a whole poor ratings among travelers and it's perceived 3rd world status probably plays a role in this.

While I agree that MIA leaves lots, lots, lots to be desired, it has improved a bit in the past few years with better concessions and the new gates at A and D; hopefully the opening of the South Terminal will improve the airport rating.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

I respectfully disagree. The people who are leaving Florida, not just South Florida, to places like Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina, tend to be middle income individuals who are having difficulties with taxes and especially, our ridiculous insurance, and who do not therefore, have disposable income to travel. On the other hand, the City of Miami tax base, for example, has doubled in the past few years due to higher tax rates paid by people with bigger pockets who tend to travel. Just look at AA and their consistently profitable and growing MIA hub.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
One reason suggested is MIA Airport cost structure is far out of line and prohibitively expensive on a per pax basis. As an example you do not see Jet Blue, Frontier, or Southwest on that field even though there is quite a bit of empty gate space currently.

Agree. MIA's cost structure is extremely expensive and given that the remaining UA/MIA employees have all maxed out pay-wise, it's a costly station for UA to run. I've been out of UA for 3 years but I do remember that UAX was not handled by UA employees. Would it be feasible that part of UA's strategy is to furlough most of the current employees, leaving a minimal staff to handle 2 TED flights. As the uAX flights would be handled by UAX (non-UA) employees hired at $8 or $9 per hour, it would be a sizeable saving for UA. Just thinkin.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32878 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7160 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 16):
only have flights to ATL, CVG, JFK and LGA

As well as MCO and TLH. I wouldn't be shocked to see SLC back. MIA/BDL were dropped because of lack of 738s more than anything. They didn't perform horribly.



a.
User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7160 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 12):
UA should simply bite the bullet and either buy new planes or exercise its options on the A319s/20s. That way they wouldn't have to make choices between turning good performing routes over to Express contractors in favor of expanding with mainline to other cities. At some point...like today....they'll need more mainline capacity. Flying Express from hubs to cities like Peoria and Roanoke may be one thing, but Express from ORD and IAD to a large tourist/business city like Miami is another.

Well AA does fly only Eagle ORD-IAD, which is a UA dominated route so you could say the same thing. Granted, they fly the M80's to DCA and at a higher frequency than Ted goes to FLL but still.

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

I hate MIA for this same reason. Not trying to be racist or anything and I speak Spanish even though I'm American but at this airport, it totally seems like Hispanics are favored over Americans. This may not actually be true but it is my perception with security agents, CSR's, and many others. Also, MIA is disgusting and old, has a horrible customs facility and is just overall a bad, corrupt airport.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7136 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
As well as MCO and TLH. I wouldn't be shocked to see SLC back. MIA/BDL were dropped because of lack of 738s more than anything. They didn't perform horribly.

DL's lack of mainline a/c will hold them back from many potentially good routes for the next several months. Like UA, they have been wise to dump their older more inefficient a/c in BK. FLL is a fairly significant focus operation for DL and I'd venture they will likely upgrade FLL-SLC to a 752 before they try going into MIA from SLC again. Perhaps when they get the 737-700s mentioned they "might" bring SLC-MIA back.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32878 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7122 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 19):
MIA is disgusting and old,

Old? That is pretty difficult to be considering about half the airport has been built in the past ten years.

People can hate MIA all they want, it has major flaws, but the worse of MIA is no worse than the worst parts of LaGuardia, O'Hare, Logan, or JFK. And it also has three, and soon four, brand-new concourses that are on par, if not better, than any other recently built airport projects in the US.

Also, I agree the switch to RJs to IAD/ORD makes sense given the cost issue. Their CRJ-700s have first class, and they can focus on the business travelers, while still offering 320s to Denver. I would not be surprised if this happens, though I would have been if Denver service ended.



a.
User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7077 times:

I checked the SkyNet, and the flights to MIA are still shown as Ted from all 3 hubs. Will check again tomorrow. It would be horribly sad if Miami downsizes like that...

Alex.



Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 376 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7049 times:

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago?? Seriously, the Miami base of flight attendants was the same way. If you didnt speak spanish you were out of most conversations all the way to South America!!



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 376 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 7041 times:

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago?? Seriously, the Miami base of flight attendants was the same way. If you didnt speak spanish you were out of most conversations all the way to South America!!

Most f/a commuters are also leaving ORD and IAD for JFK because they can commute on JetBlue easier than on UA to South Florida.



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
25 SLCUT2777 : Many of us at SLC (talk about an old airport being "band-aided" up!) would gladly take the concourses and terminals at MIA, but of course without the
26 Ualcsr : While my parents were born in Cuba, I was born at Doctors Hospital in Coral Gables, Florida 42 years ago and with the exception of one year in Paris,
27 Coal : I understand what you mean and what the Norwegian poster means. I personally cannot stand the AA crews based out of BOG. I truly despise them. I've e
28 Post contains images Isitsafenow : Maybe they are starting additional one-way service to Marana. That might explain any cutbacks. safe
29 PRAirbus : MIA newest terminal "J" was relevant for Star Alliance some years ago, after the post 9-11 downsizing and the bankruptcies most contractual obligation
30 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Apparently there is no business traffic in MIA, or PHX for that matter . UA has all but given up on Florida. Isn't that like splitting atoms?
31 United787 : I totally agree. I understand that UA is limited at FLL now, but what if they turned FLL into what AA does at MIA and use it as the feeder for Latin
32 Tu154 : [ I think European immigrants became "American" because when they came here they wanted to blend in and assimilate. To embrace their new homeland, whi
33 MAH4546 : It is pretty pathetic you think immigrants "demand" those things because, for the most part, they didn't. There were just so many Spanish speaking im
34 Tommy777 : Very OT, but I feel like replying to this post: No one says that anyone is worth any less than any other Americans. I'm an immigrant, too, just moved
35 Tommy777 : I find this VERY hard to believe
36 MAH4546 : That's fine, I don't care. I live in Miami. I experience it everday. I rarely will ever run into somebody who doesn't speak English. There is a diffe
37 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It would be called USAirways and it would be quickly scaled back . I've always thought that a Latin American hub at FLL would work *IF* the facilitie
38 Post contains images MD13 : Tommy777, My family and I used to go very often to Miami when I didn't speak english and I had the opposite experience that you had. Most of the time
39 Jetpixx : You, my friend, are in my RU list. This is exactly the feelings I had when reading the initial post. "Get used to the new reality", he said. That's b
40 United787 : Way to Hijack the thread... Can we get this back to Topic...
41 LAXdude1023 : I hear you my friend. I live in Los Angeles, a city that of millions that is half Latino. I hear more Spanish then English in LA, and to be frank: I
42 B752OS : I don't really think NYC is weak with Star Carriers. When you consider that LGA has a decent sized US operation along with JFK and EWR having service
43 ScottB : I suspect the point is not that people are leaving Florida, but rather that population is shifting north within South Florida. Both Broward and Palm
44 LAXdude1023 : Comparatively it is. I guess I was also thinking on a domestic level and total number of flights. NYC seems to be the strongest with Skyteam. I do ad
45 USPIT10L : Knowing how high the landing fees are at MIA, I'm very surprised by this. I thought MIA had far more business traffic than FLL did. But FLL is primar
46 Daron4000 : So instead of this forum turning into an MIA bash, does anyone have any updates for UA's presence in MIA?
47 Ualcsr : I didn't in any manner mean to open a can of worms with respect to immigration in the US but at times, it's truly amazing that a nation built on immig
48 Tommy767 : There are some things I love and hate about MIA. What i love is the observation deck/pool at the airport hotel, but last time I was there was in Febru
49 B752OS : In any event, I doubt we will hear any complaining from AA with UA downsizing their operation. Especially when you consider they compete on the ORD ro
50 Coal : So basically you're saying that MIA will remain a sh*thole for the next, oh, 20-30 yrs. Cheers, Coal
51 Tu154 : yes, as it has been for the last 30+ years.......................... as long as MIA is run by the current administration......it will be corrupt, and
52 MAH4546 : There will be in article in tomorrow's Herald about this. United has not yet made a final decission about switching from Ted to Express on the Dulles
53 Hiflyer : Thank goodness the Miami Herald is never wrong regarding Miami Dade Aviation...wink! The UA employees were not told it was pending but were told it w
54 Jfk777 : Miami has become an embarrassment for the USA and DADE county. AA should be allowed to finish what it started and leave the politics out of it.
55 MAH4546 : AA created the mess. Miami had to stop them from continuing it and takeover the project. What the Herald will report tomorrow is what UA told them. U
56 AAL0616 : I cannot comment on UA scheduling plans but it does surprise and sadden me if there is a further reduction in Miami service by them, albeit reducing t
57 AAL0616 : Just thought of something ... If the rumor is that TED stays with two DEN trips, ORD becomes two mainline for the two TED, and only IAD is where the C
58 Bicoastal : Having been on quite a few IAD to Florida flights on United over the years, I know that they were full of European snow birds and cruise shippers head
59 AAL0616 : I know how customers express surprise and sometimes frustration coming off an international or over water segment, outbound for a vacation destination
60 JoFMO : I German passnger in business would take LH or LX right into MIA. Only low yield economy pax transfer in IAD on their way to Florida.
61 JoFMO : A German passenger in business would take LH or LX right into MIA. Only low yield economy pax transfer in IAD on their way to Florida.
62 AAL0616 : I just got home from my overnight trip from the west coast (explaining the time yesterday afternoon in the hotel to hack out some messages) and read t
63 Post contains links Hiflyer : Read the article...another chance for Mike Boyd wannabe Klaskin to open his mouth and get quoted. Looks like Drum is the last to know. http://www.miam
64 Yellowtail : TA is gonna be real happy about this considering their new codeshare with UA....
65 Hiflyer : May be a last shot for spotters....UA running 763 extra sections Saturday before the SuperBowl and the Monday after...into the same MIA they are talki
66 PavlovsDog : This is mere speculation but if UA were to buy Spirit would they be able to restart flights to S. America from Fort Lauderdale? What routes could be r
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