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AirAsia X Boeing 777-300ER Vs A330-300 Selection  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21079 times:


AirAsia X plans to launch in July with services from Kuala Lumpur to Tianjin and Hangzhou in China and from Kuala Lumpur to the UK, says Fernandes.

He says the Malaysian government has granted AirAsia X traffic rights to Birmingham and Manchester, and that it was looking at granting rights to London.

Fernandes says they are considering the A330-300 and Boeing 777-300ER for AirAsia X, which will operate only one aircraft type. He describes Airbus’ A330 replacement, the A350XWB, as the perfect aircraft for AirAsia X. However, he adds that they are first looking at the A330 as the A350XWB is a new aircraft type under development and will only be available in later years.


- First of all deciding to use a a333 or 773ER for a start up is pretty ambitious
- The A333 is a great machine but operating to the UK from KUL seems a bit of a stretch..

Wouldn´t the A332 be a better idea?

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+possible+A330s+as+it+unveils.html


Fernandes

[Edited 2007-01-06 00:44:46] getting the picture takes a few minutes..

[Edited 2007-01-06 00:45:56]

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineENU From Netherlands, joined Nov 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21074 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Fernandes = the guy on the right
Seems to be Christiano Ronaldo to me...

EDIT: This post no longer makes sense, as the picture referred to was removed.

[Edited 2007-01-06 00:49:37]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21068 times:
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Great Circle shows MAN-KUL at 6640nm with ETOPS-180 which is 1000nm over an A333's range at max payload, so I am guessing they're going to be flying little in the way of cargo on these birds...

I agree the A332 would provide a better initial product in terms of performance and would allow them to grow up to an A358X or A359X over the next 7-10 years.

On the flip side, while MAN-KUL is a cakewalk for a loaded 773ER, they first have to load the 773ER...  Wink


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21021 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
while MAN-KUL is a cakewalk for a loaded 773ER

Not loaded, also payload restricted & KUL = hot http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/777rsec3.pdf , slide 5


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21003 times:

Also note, another few arcticles have said that KUL-LON flights will be flown via DXB, so therefore no problems with the capabilities of the A333.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- First of all deciding to use a a333 or 773ER for a start up is pretty ambitious
- The A333 is a great machine but operating to the UK from KUL seems a bit of a stretch..

Wouldn´t the A332 be a better idea?

I have to agree with your first and third points. The A333 or 77W is realy ambitious to begin with.
The A333 is no problem via DXB as some articles have noted.
I have to agree, I think the A332 would be best suited for the new routes. The 767 would also be good, but the A332 would be better due to AirAsia's current and future fleet of A320's.

I have to say I am worried for Malaysia Airlines with this news.

AirAsia have said they want to introduce KCH-PER flights when they receive more A320's. Maybe they will enter the kangaroo service from KLIA with AirAsia X.

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 20964 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 4):
The A333 is no problem via DXB as some articles have noted.

Thnx, missed that. If a stop in DBX is scheduled everything changes. Passenger won´t be demanding anyway, just price driven folks.


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20877 times:

There is a huge difference in size between an A330-300 and a 777-300ER.

I don't see how they can be comparing the two. If they are interested in an aircraft the size of the 777-300ER, Airbus can only really offer the A340-600 as a competitor.

An A330-300 is vaguely comparitive to a 777-200 but need to be looking at an A340-300 to match the 772's range.

Would be great to see additional Asian routes from BHX and MAN.


User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 952 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20668 times:

Fernandes was interviewed on CNBC yesterday on which aircraft he might pick. He said both were in the running now, but indicated that if it was the A333, it would be an interim measure to an A350XWB order.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 20578 times:
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Quoting B742 (Reply 4):
Also note, another few arcticles have said that KUL-LON flights will be flown via DXB, so therefore no problems with the capabilities of the A333.

Aye. At that point they don't need the range of the A332.


User currently offlineCoolSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 55 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20533 times:

there is certain level of risk to have all Airbuses for Air Asia: capacity, quality and cost...

User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 20408 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
Not loaded, also payload restricted & KUL = hot http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/777rsec3.pdf , slide 5

While the range requirement for KUL-MAN will restrict the 773ER payload to less than the MZFW level, I'm do sure why you threw in the word "hot".

Since the TOFL at KUL is 13K'+, the full MTOW of 775K lb will be available year round.

So far as the 773ER's payload capability on the route concerned, SIN-MAN is even further and SQ seems pleased.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20267 times:

I recall also reading that they want to fly KUL-ATQ alongside the UK and China services.

UK services would work preferably if theyre nonstop from KUL and not via DXB or XYZ city. For a nonstop UK-KUL flight, the A 333 is out of the question but the A 332 could perhaps fly the route nonstop. KUL-BHX/MAN is 10,700 KM and the A 332 can supposely fly 11,700KM nonstop with a full payload according to Airbus.

But even with a widebody like the A 332, it would be very difficult to fill a KUL-MAN/BHX nonstop flight year round (on O&D traffic alone) and may not be profitable if the main objective is to provide dirt cheap low yielding fares! They need to have services to Australia & AKL from KUL to support their UK flights especially.

What I would seriously advise Air Asia is to establish a "mini hub" of sorts in DXB and fly via DXB with 5th freedom rights to niche markets in Europe and Africa that have seen in the past good "leisure demand" on MH services to KUL. There are cities in EU that EK dont fly to nonstop from DXB and alongwith the 5th freedom traffic, Air AsiaX can also tap the Malaysia bound tourist traffic + 6th freedom via KUL to Austral-Asia.

Cities that I feel would benefit from such services are :

KUL-DXB-CPH
KUL-DXB-MAD
KUL-DXB-GVA
KUL-DXB-DME
KUL-DXB-BRU
KUL-DXB-ATH

[Edited 2007-01-06 07:26:17]

User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20204 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 6):
There is a huge difference in size between an A330-300 and a 777-300ER.

I don't see how they can be comparing the two.

Huh??!!???

What is currently the largest, state of the art, best selling available twin-engine widebody from Boeing? 777-300ER.

What is currently the largest, state of the art, best selling available twin-engine widebody from Airbus? A330-300.

And you think it makes no sense comparing the two?

Only on A.net do people insist that only airplanes of exaclty the same size can be compared. Geez.

Having said that, I agree that it is too much airplane to start a route. Get a used 767-300ER or even a used A330-200 and walk before you run. On the other hand, with all the narrow bodies they have on order, if they can afford a 77W, they should have no problem feeding a hub to fill the plane.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9159 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 19964 times:

Quoting Airpearl (Reply 7):
Fernandes was interviewed on CNBC yesterday on which aircraft he might pick. He said both were in the running now, but indicated that if it was the A333, it would be an interim measure to an A350XWB order.

They are already showing a 330 in TV commercials.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 854 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 19901 times:

@ Baron95

The most popular twin today from A is the 330-200, you can´t compare it with B777-300ER, pax and cargo

Micke//  

[Edited 2007-01-06 11:42:31]


Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 19857 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 11):
But even with a widebody like the A 332, it would be very difficult to fill a KUL-MAN/BHX nonstop flight year round (on O&D traffic alone)

That is why I think the stop en-route is vital. BHX-KUL, for example, wouldn't work non stop I dont think but BHX-Amritsar(for example)-KUL, traffic rights permitting might



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineKeno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 19813 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 11):
What I would seriously advise Air Asia is to establish a "mini hub" of sorts in DXB and fly via DXB with 5th freedom rights to niche markets in Europe and Africa

Note that AirAsia does not have the govt permission to operate KUL-DXB as it is already served by MH. The most likely enroute stop would be SHJ, which itself is the LCC hub of Arabia.

SHJ would be a great stopover point between KUL and Europe considering the high demand on both ways from SHJ i.e. Dubai is popular with British holidaymakers while Gulf Arabs travel to Malaysia in their thousands especially in the summer months. Compare this with ATQ, whose demand is mostly to/from UK. Malaysia never have had strong links with the Punjab as most Malaysian-born Indians originate from Tamil Nadu in the south.

[Edited 2007-01-06 12:43:39]

User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6829 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19802 times:

Quoting CoolSkyGuy (Reply 9):
there is certain level of risk to have all Airbuses for Air Asia: capacity, quality and cost...

I don't see how Air Asia would face "quality risks" by choosing Airbus.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 12):
What is currently the largest, state of the art, best selling available twin-engine widebody from Airbus? A330-300.

That would be the A332.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19727 times:

Ooooops.

Sorry folks double post.

Regards,
Wings

[Edited 2007-01-06 12:49:06]


Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19724 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):

I don't see how Air Asia would face "quality risks" by choosing Airbus.

I was thinking just about the same thing. Maybe some one might inform SQ,QF and LH about that quality issues before they take those A330's recently ordered.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
Quoting Baron95 (Reply 12):
What is currently the largest, state of the art, best selling available twin-engine widebody from Airbus? A330-300.

That would be the A332.

Well he did say largest which is the A330-300.  Wink

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6829 posts, RR: 77
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19689 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 19):
Well he did say largest which is the A330-300.

True, I somehow overread "largest". But it doesn't change much anyway - A333 and B77W are also totally different in terms of range.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7394 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19605 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
On the flip side, while MAN-KUL is a cakewalk for a loaded 773ER, they first have to load the 773ER...

MH carried between 8000 and 10000 passengers a month on their 4 weekly 744s, so if call it roughly 18 times in a month, we're talking 222 to 277 passengers per flight.


User currently offlineFlyLKU From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18290 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 12):
Only on A.net do people insist that only airplanes of exaclty the same size can be compared. Geez.

Sorry Baron95 but my first reaction to the comparison was that, on the surface, it appeared a bit odd. We don't know all the factors they are considering.

Take it easy on your fellow A.net's. We're just here to have a little friendly aviation banter.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

I think this decision will come down to Production Slots. How soon can Boeing deliver B777's and Airbus A330's?
If AirAsia wanted to wait they'd be choosing between the A350 and B787.



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18096 times:

Quoting AT502B (Reply 23):
I think this decision will come down to Production Slots. How soon can Boeing deliver B777's and Airbus A330's?

roughly the same time frame.

Quoting AT502B (Reply 23):
If AirAsia wanted to wait they'd be choosing between the A350 and B787.

Exactly, looks like the A330 will be followed by the A350.


25 CPairDC10 : This should not be a problem as they are charging 40 pounds for a ticket !!!!!
26 Trex8 : how can you possibly break even, let alone make money like that? even if you put 400 seats on that plane!
27 CPairDC10 : I have no idea, but there is quite a buzz in manchester about it. there was a big article in the paper about it, i have forgot to bring it with me as
28 Post contains images Stitch : Well if you only run it for a week or two, you minimize the bleeding. Either that or they have a really lucrative cargo deal, which would favor the 7
29 Karan69 : Agreed mate, but do you have details on how many were O & D pax and not connecting to other MH flights to AUS/NZ SE Asia etc.. Karan
30 David_itl : I would imagine that most were connecting. But if this planned venture is aiming for pasengers to use KUL as a stepping stone for other flights, then
31 Trex8 : even if they filled the whole lower hold with cargo at "normal rates" I doubt they could make it work out while still having to bear the costs of the
32 Ikramerica : They want to start flying in 6 months. AFAIU, 77Ws are not readily available in 5 months (need time to accept aircraft and startup)
33 Post contains images AirbusA6 : The official LCC of Manchester United will now service Manchester Seriously, the rapid growth of their network in Asia, has shown that people will fly
34 Baron95 : If you were an Airline executive and needed the largest readily available twin-engine airliner to fly a 5500 nm mission and were issuing an RFP, what
35 LeftWing : Since MH is bleeding and dying may be they lease 777 from them
36 PlaneHunter : They probably compete when an airline is flexible in terms of mission profile and capacity. But the B77W offers some 60-120 more seats (depending on
37 CoolSkyGuy : Isn't A330-300 is a bit outdated? Or are they considering A330-200 instead? B777-300ER will be nice. One will wonder how will a B773-ER be like in AK
38 Zeke : Are they operating them on that route ? only thought the 200ER. The SQ aircraft (773ER) with 280 seats would not be a problem, expensive aircraft for
39 Candid76 : Don't underestimate this - one of the world's most powerful sporting brands will generate serious business for Air Asia. I look forward to some serio
40 Post contains images Stitch : They're identical platforms (differing only in size), so if you feel one is outdated, so would the other... Since the routing will include a stop-ove
41 CoolSkyGuy : Range (w/max. passengers) for A333 is 10,500 km, whilst for A332 is 12,500 km. So for KUL-LHR with the distance of 10,539km, A332 will not require a
42 Stitch : Yup, which is why a number of us (myself included) were wondering why they were looking at the A333 as we assumed (incorrectly) that the flight was t
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