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Good Mergers?  
User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Hi everyone.... From a yet again fresh snow covered DEN

I was wondering with the US / DL merger proposal and rumors up the wazoo about UA CO NW etc....

Have there ever been any GOOD mergers?

I know that AA / TWA was a bad one. Also to most the CO / F9 (the first one) wasn't all that great. Also CO / EA (if it really was a merger) was bad.

but have there been any recent good mergers?

If this has been discussed in the past and I apologize I couldn't find it in the search

-Carl


If Your Dying Were Flying
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAASTEW From Dominican Republic, joined Oct 2001, 447 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Just a question, besides 9/11 what made AA/TWA a bad merger? It was on of the most smooth and quickly transitioned airline merger.

AASTEW


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 969 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 1):
Just a question, besides 9/11 what made AA/TWA a bad merger? It was on of the most smooth and quickly transitioned airline merger.

Hmm...might want to ask former TWA employees what was so bad about it...

PA/NA...bad...US/Piedmont...so so? DL/WA...good.

CO/PE should be considered good...it was rough for a while, but CO has PE's former hub at EWR and that's a money-maker for them.


User currently offlineOrdpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 2634 times:
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United/Capital - good!

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 2):
DL/WA...good

 checkmark  Very good indeed! The proposed DL/US merger is bad which is why it is being viewed with such hostility and disdain  irked   grumpy   gnasher 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Thread starter):
Also CO / EA (if it really was a merger)

If that is referring to Eastern Airlines, the two were never merged. They were both owned by Texas Air (Lorenzo) for a while, but the two were never combined.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

I haven't been impressed with US, and there bid to take over DL. way to much overlap, and too many lucrative holes in the network.

on topic, however, i do think that the US/HP deal was a great save by Parker. It was sad to see HP go, but, I wouldn't have wanted them to go into bankruptcy either. That was the principle reason why they did merge.

It seems that the operations have been pretty smooth, and it seems like a lot of the employees are relatively content being merged into each other. Well, at least on the HP side, I live in LA, and fly to PHX and LAS relatively often, and the employees seem to try to make the flying experience more enjoyable.

I flew on US once before the merger, and, if i remember, it was pretty uneventful, and forgettable. All i remember was that it seemed ridiculous that they wanted something like $8.00 for a pair of headphones.



Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

I think CO and UA would be a good Merger  Smile...

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 1):
It was on of the most smooth and quickly transitioned airline merger.

Your comment was about the AA/TWA situation.

Theirs wasn't a merger, it was an asset acquisition.

Many of the tricky labor issues (adding TWA union members to the bottomr of the AA list instead of merging them) and complex financial issues were resolved prior to the acquisition.

This was a merger only of aircraft that also incorporate the well being of TWA retirees. Nothing else that was TWA remained.

The Delta/Western mergers went better than most, althoght it too was full of labor related problems. Western employees lost all union representation shortly after the merger was finalized. Most Western union employees received immediate pay incrreases to Delta's superior non-union wage levels. But there was a LOT of animosity among Western employees toward Delta.

Never really understood why either. They were acquired by what was then the powerhouse of the airline industry. They got pay raises and job protection. They received the more valuable Delta stock for their Western stock which had been issued due to wage cuts during hard times. Their highly complementary route systems seemed like a match made in heaven, and in many ways it was, but labor was very sticky for several years.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Good merger: AS and (CO|AA|DL).

How about: WestJet and WN?  Wink



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Would the Pacific/Bonanza/West Coast merger into AirWest (then later Hughes Airwest) be thought of as a good merger? It made three small regional airlines into a much larger and visible airline with more clout. I don't know about the details regarding employess, etc.

North Central + Southern was said to be awkward. The subsequent Hughes AirWest and Republic merger didn't retain much of Hughes AirWest in the end, so not sure how well that worked.

Back further, Frontier (the original)-Central was opportune, and expanded Frontier's presence in the Great Plains. Along the same lines is the Allegheny and Lake Central combination.

An earlier post crediting Continental and People Express also needed to include Frontier's half of the earlier Frontier-People Express merger.

Any of you have opinions about TWA-Ozark, or Piedmont-Empire?

And here's one that's been overlooked -- how about all the merger/acquisitions by Mesa Air over the years, to become the megaregional it is today. Revolutionized regional airlines, didn't it? Similarly, Air Wisconsin, or Chautauqua! None of them would be recognized from their original homelands!

-Rampart


User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

What about Northwest/Republic? I know there are still some labor issues to this day regarding seniority etc., but otherwise it made sense from a post-deregulation standpoint (NW had long-haul, international, and high-traffic routes, while Republic had a stronger hub/spoke system, shorter routes with smaller planes, and the two had overlapping hubs particularly in MSP, so NW eliminated a lot of competition with the merger as well.

User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 792 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 11):
What about Northwest/Republic?

That was about the most rancorous of all the mergers that took place at that time (DL/WA and TW/OZ being the others) as the seniority list merger was, in military parlance, a Charlie-Fox. From an operational standpoint, it's worked out okay after a fashion.

I would agree that of all the mergers within the past 20 years, the DL/WA merger probably ranks as the smoothest and most beneficial to the resulting airline.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Then we have AS and Jet America. AS needed some planes and was able to get them. Jet America didn't have much of a route structure anyways, so it has to be classified as a good merger.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):

 checkmark 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6432 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 11):
What about Northwest/Republic? I know there are still some labor issues to this day regarding seniority etc., but otherwise it made sense from a post-deregulation standpoint

The NW/RC merger was definitly raucous, however the problems were between mainly the employee groups (unions) regarding seniority. The management at Northwest did all it could to defuse this animosity between the Red Tails and the Blue Tails but with little success. For years many Red Tail pilots would not speak to Blue Tail pilots and the same was true in reverse. On the ramp the disagreements became physical on many occasions.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Is this only about airline mergers in the US or can it also be on Europe? I'd like to know a bit if some of the Euro airline mergers were "good" or at least beneficial to the airlines involved.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2217 times:
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Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
t was sad to see HP go, but, I wouldn't have wanted them to go into bankruptcy either. That was the principle reason why they did merge.

Hmmmm?

America West was in no danger of bankruptcy at the time of the merger with US.

There had been a possibility at the time of 9/11 - without the ATSB loan, America West would almost certainly have gone Chapter 11 - but that was not an issue by the time of the merger.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 5):
If that is referring to Eastern Airlines, the two were never merged. They were both owned by Texas Air (Lorenzo) for a while, but the two were never combined.

It was about Eastern but I keep forgetting that they were never merged my fault

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
Is this only about airline mergers in the US or can it also be on Europe? I'd like to know a bit if some of the Euro airline mergers were "good" or at least beneficial to the airlines involved.

I didn't have it in mind but it is a good question what does the rest of the world look like??

-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11153 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Define "good merger."


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User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1119 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2155 times:

I remember day one of the NWA/RC merger,IIRC there were headaches regarding basic operations,flights left on long trips with no meals,galley carts not having a common fit between fleets,RC maintenance used SCEPTRE,crew planning used different programs sometimes there was a crew and no aircraft sometimes there was an aircraft and no crew.

Quoting Ordpark (Reply 3):
United/Capital - good!

Just don't say that to folks that were there at the time,as late as a couple years ago when the last of them retired there was the battle of the "bluebirds and the red-birds"

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 1):
Just a question, besides 9/11 what made AA/TWA a bad merger? It was on of the most smooth and quickly transitioned airline merger.

AASTEW

When you steamroll over one employee group and basically eliminate them it pretty much stops any debate...Sky Nazi or Stalin style,doesn't really matter.


User currently offlineGarri767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

PE/CO was good, EWR is awesome for CO now. Was Texas international/Co a buyout or merger?

User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1119 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 21):
Was Texas international/Co a buyout or merger?

Texas Air Corp. owned Texas International and purchased CO,they merged the operations in 1982 and stuck with the CO. name because it wasn't so limited.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 21):
PE/CO was good, EWR is awesome for CO now.

The PE/CO merger (plus NY being folded in to the mix) was a mess for years! People tend to forget how bad things were at CO for a long time after the combo.

Yes, it worked out in the long run, but it took a decade for CO to get rid of the bad rep it had!


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7401 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
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Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 20):
When you steamroll over one employee group and basically eliminate them it pretty much stops any debate...Sky Nazi or Stalin style,doesn't really matter.

Well, the TWA union employees did themselves in by signing their scope clause in their contract away. That is unlikely to ever happen again.



Made from jets!
25 Post contains images Zippyjet : For what it's worth, the Delta absorbing Northeast merger seemed good to me. Back in the day, we were in the throes of a Nixon era/GOP recession and
26 MCOflyer : US/HP so far so good. MCOflyer
27 Rogerthat : AA's hookup with Trans Caribbean in the early 70's should be rated a Good Merger.
28 Lite : Go and EasyJet. Before these two airlines merged in 2003, they were both reasonably sized low-cost airlines, who had they not merged, would have ended
29 Vhqpa : How about BOAC/BEA that must be a good merger. Also I can't recall to many problems that arose with the QF/TN merger J[Edited 2007-01-07 14:41:52]
30 CV580Freak : Nobody has mentioned NW/AA, any good synergies there ?
31 Post contains images Charlienorth : If you do you're nuts.
32 LTU932 : You mean TN as in Australian Airlines from the 90s, right?
33 Connies4ever : How about CP/WD and AC/CP ? CP buys out Wardair in 1989. WD only weeks away from liquidation, in the view of many, Max Ward pockets $68M and skates. C
34 Post contains links and images AirEMS : I remember very shortly after the CO/Frontier merger I was driving down I-70 here in DEN and a a/c like this went over the highway: View Large View M
35 Wingnut767 : It was an aquasition not a merger. Pretty much most of TWA employees are gone, the airplanes are mostly gone or going and a large chunk of there flig
36 Superhub : CXand KA seems to be a very good merger. Routes complement each other. And the merger was done with only dozens of (around 40 if I can remember correc
37 Jamake1 : Within the U.S. airline industry, I think the DL/WA merger was probably one of the better executed airline mergers. It expanded DL's market coverage t
38 Falstaff : My dad is a frequent business traveler out of STL and he complains that since AA/TWA merger his choice of direct flights and mainline service out of
39 BCAL : I am unsure if BOAC/BEA could be considered a merger in the true sense. They both were state-owned at the time and both reported to the Ministry of A
40 IAirAllie : The fact that it pissed off all the involved labor groups and lowered morale. Also the fact that 5 years later AA barely uses any of the TWA resource
41 Rikkus67 : Although I do believe in global economy... with all due respect, I'd rather not have another American company buying out a Canadian company. Retail h
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