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CLE Airport Upgrades, When?  
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Over the past few years, there have been several upgrades planned, but either haven't or only partially happened.

1) Airport runway final extension -
2) Nearly a year ago, CLE city council gave CO $ to extend the check in counter to the south (towards D gates)
3) CLE Airport deal w/CO - support PVG and put in an international customs facility and we'll give you CDG in 2008
4) Interior upgrades - see new paint and restrooms. Anything else planned?

Any information available on these? Just seems like another CLE project, gets approval and then takes on a life of its own and never goes anywhere.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Well, as far as the runway extension, the last I heard is that a few months ago, bids were received, but they all came in significantly higher than the city's own estimates. As is standard practice in that situation, all bids are rejected, and you are forced to start over after figuring out what went wrong with your own estimate.

I'm not sure about the rest of the upgrades, I don't know too much. However, one thing that may be affecting things is that the City general fund is nearing the upper limits of its permissible debt load. However, each department, including port control, has their own budget, and may have room on theirs.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
4) Interior upgrades - see new paint and restrooms. Anything else planned?

When I went through on the first they had done some repainiting.. it looked really sharp, amazing how much a coat of paint can change a rooms atmosphere... it was the blue and green that the cities logo uses...

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
3) CLE Airport deal w/CO - support PVG and put in an international customs facility and we'll give you CDG in 2008

I think they are going to reconfigure the the customs facitilities, I honestly don't know the status though...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 483 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

I seem to remember under John Mok the airport was supposed to undertake a strategic review-- I was expecting it would lead to some press release issued on the need for a new terminal (b ut only a pipe dream on how to fund it), because let's face it other than D it's needed, with the narrow hallways, low celings, and puny bathrooms, the place is a dinosaur. I have a feeling with the change in administration that got put on hold. But Ricky Smith seems like a pretty ambitious guy. . . .

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 2):
When I went through on the first they had done some repainiting.. it looked really sharp, amazing how much a coat of paint can change a rooms atmosphere... it was the blue and green that the cities logo uses...

Yeah but all of those "Destination: CLEaner airport"-type signs are kind of tacky. One or two would be fine but it feels like there are dozens at the airport, it seems kind of naggy.

The new restrooms aren't too bad, though; I don't see how (or why) you would extend the ticket counter w/o reconfiguring security.

Speaking of security, what's up with closing the 'C' exit at night? I can understand why they would close the checkpoint, but there's nothing more irritating than getting off a 5+ hour flight, walking to where you should be able to head straight to baggage claim and instead seeign a sign and having to walk several hundred feet further, just to go down an escalator, make a U-Turn and backtrack to baggage claim 9, then walk back to the parking structure.

Sigh.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently onlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 1):
Well, as far as the runway extension, the last I heard is that a few months ago, bids were received, but they all came in significantly higher than the city's own estimates. As is standard practice in that situation, all bids are rejected, and you are forced to start over after figuring out what went wrong with your own estimate.

What? You mean a customer actually wants to pay far less than something costs? And that customer is run by public sector buffoons? Wow. I never saw THAT coming...



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineTrijetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2618 times:
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I'd really love to see CO extend some routes into Europe such as CDG and AMS. I think that CO could upgrade more routes (domestically) with widebodies/757-200/300's.

CLE-LAX with another 753 and addition 764
CLE-SFO 752
CLE-IAH 752
CLE-MCO 752
*CLE-HNL 764

upgrade DFW to mainline 733/735

add CLE-AMS 752/762
add CLE-CDG 762/764



Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

CONTNLELITECMH

I think the change in price is due to the 5 year old estimate = think about what materials and oil have done in that time. Probably are now 30% more to do the final extension. See what happens when Mok just did not get it done one time. Prices went crazy and now may not get done due to no extra $.

TRIJETFAN1

Not sure this will happen, but feel that with 60 new 737's coming on board in 2008/2009, the return of more mainline service. Hope SEA, PDX, more SFO for sure. Hate stopping on those routes.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8232 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Reply 6):
add CLE-CDG 762/764

They already added CLE-CDG, starts in '08 with a 752.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):

I also remember the whole IX Center legal battle between the city of Cleveland and Brookpark. CLE was to have the IX Center torn down, and a new 12,000ft runway(?) was to have been completed by 2012 (I think). However, it was realized that the gains from a larger runway would not be much, and the proposal was dropped.

In addition, I now know that there is a brewing problem with runway 6C-24C. From what I understand, a simple error in the initial FAA application for the new runway (24R-6L) stated a total of "3" runways when the newest one would be completed. Actually, there are four runways. The current solution is to decommission 6C-24C into a taxiway to comply with the 3 runways restriction. However, in knowing airport employees, the general opinion is to keep 6C-24C a runway, as a backup.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2618 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

Don't look for CO to place more 752 or 767's in CLE as those aircraft are needed internationally EWR-Europe and EWR/IAH-Latin America. Maybe some addded 738 or 739ER aircraft on heavily loaded routes and upgrades on some routes to mainline. The 753 is a domestic aircraft and more heavy load factor CLE-LAX/LAS flights would be candidates for these aircraft.

I'd love to CLE-SAN back to stay. When it was moved to an AM eastbound years ago I could see the writing on the wall that it would be pulled that Fall. Evening west and red eye east doesn't require an aircraft and was operated over the recent holiday. Maybe the 733 and 735 aircraft being fitted with winglets are for CLE-West Coast.

I don't see a Non-stop to HNL in the future and think it likely 752 aircraft would be flown on CDG (slightly under EWR-TXL distance) and AMS. Some thought AMS would come before CDG as it is a big SkyTeam hub. CLE would love the service and, being the only service offered, shouldn't care if the service was narrow-bodies.

CLE can be a reliever for EWR as it becomes more congested with the eventual addition of more international flights.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 3):
I seem to remember under John Mok the airport was supposed to undertake a strategic review-- I was expecting it would lead to some press release issued on the need for a new terminal (b ut only a pipe dream on how to fund it), because let's face it other than D it's needed, with the narrow hallways, low celings, and puny bathrooms, the place is a dinosaur. I have a feeling with the change in administration that got put on hold. But Ricky Smith seems like a pretty ambitious guy. . . .

Well, the last rumor I heard about that (mind you it was a while ago)...
Supposidly they were looking to systematicly level A & B concourses and rebuild, either that or gut and rebuild, supposidly the rumor was that A had plans to add a Banjo, similar to what was on C so that UA, WN, or DL could be moved from B to A and open more gates on B for CO.... for all the CLE Fans, feel free to correct, don't jump on me.. that was a while ago....

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Speaking of security, what's up with closing the 'C' exit at night? I can understand why they would close the checkpoint, but there's nothing more irritating than getting off a 5+ hour flight, walking to where you should be able to head straight to baggage claim and instead seeign a sign and having to walk several hundred feet further, just to go down an escalator, make a U-Turn and backtrack to baggage claim 9, then walk back to the parking structure.

Talk to the guy that does the scheduling for TSA... Last I heard it was the Former AA station manager, Ken.... They do the same thing on the A concourse...

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Reply 6):
upgrade DFW to mainline 733/735

That would be enough for me to switch to CO to go home and avoid AA... I hate the jungle jets for the CLE DFW runs... I beg AA customer relations every month for a MD80... so far no luck, and I doubt in the future I will either...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 5):
What? You mean a customer actually wants to pay far less than something costs? And that customer is run by public sector buffoons? Wow. I never saw THAT coming...

While I'm sure the city would love to pay less, that's not the point of the city's estimate. It's for budgetary purposes. If the estimates are higher, the cash isn't in the budget, so they are rejected. The bidder's don't know what the city estimate says to try and match it.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

This is why CO should add flights

CLEVELAND -- Northeast Ohio airport officials said there were fewer flights last year -- but more passengers.

About 229,000 flights arrived or departed Cleveland Hopkins International Airport last January through November. That's about 21,000 fewer flights than the same period in 2005. But the number of passengers grew by 200,000 to 10.6 million.

Flights were down by 4 percent at Akron-Canton Airport while passenger counts increased slightly.

The numbers mean more crowded flights.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 12):
While I'm sure the city would love to pay less, that's not the point of the city's estimate. It's for budgetary purposes. If the estimates are higher, the cash isn't in the budget, so they are rejected. The bidder's don't know what the city estimate says to try and match it.

I'm not sure how it legally works in Ohio (even though I've lived here for a year and a half), but in California the advertisement for bids / RFP usually includes the architect/engineer's estimated cost for the project. Having this information can be helpful for making sure both parties understand the scope (If the engineer's estimate is $2.3m and you're thinking $900,000 you know that something's not quite right).

One, possibly overly simplistic, way to think of it is when you're buying a airline ticket. You estimate the cost to be $375, and that's what your budget for the trip is. When you get the bids (i.e. go to Travelocity or whatever) and the prices are $500, $525, $600, ... you say "oh, shoot, I can't afford that now..." and postpone the trip.

Lincoln

[Edited 2007-01-07 04:55:09]


CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently onlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 12):
While I'm sure the city would love to pay less, that's not the point of the city's estimate. It's for budgetary purposes. If the estimates are higher, the cash isn't in the budget, so they are rejected. The bidder's don't know what the city estimate says to try and match it.

I'm familiar with the estimating and budgeting process in the public sector. Heck, right now I'm in the middle of a project for a major agency within my fair state.

Maybe the city's engineer should have asked for help when figuring what a runway actually costs. This happens all the time with software too. Public sector client figures it should cost about 1/2 of what it actually does because they never bother to ask.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5412 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 15):
Maybe the city's engineer should have asked for help when figuring what a runway actually costs. This happens all the time with software too. Public sector client figures it should cost about 1/2 of what it actually does because they never bother to ask.

It was strange they missed the estimates by so much, since the city had just completed the two phase (7000ft+2000ft) construction of 6L/24R. You might have thought a 2500ft extension to 6R/24L would have had a fairly predictable cost.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5412 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2456 times:

Rather than start a new thread, Commair's DH2's have shown up in CO schedule flying one daily flight to MDT, HPN, and JFK effective March 2, replacing ERJs.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 16):
It was strange they missed the estimates by so much, since the city had just completed the two phase (7000ft+2000ft) construction of 6L/24R. You might have thought a 2500ft extension to 6R/24L would have had a fairly predictable cost.

And I thought this was the one thing that MOK was good at! Massey, what's your % guess that it happens?


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8232 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 17):
Commair's DH2's have shown up in CO schedule flying one daily flight to MDT, HPN, and JFK effective March 2, replacing ERJs.

Very interesting. They're starting to replace ERJs instead of B1900s... hmm.

Speaking of asthetic improvements, anyone else think the "going places" slogan is a bit overused? It's on every garbage can, every wall, and every other pillar in the parking garage. Nevermind the billboards and buses...



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 17):
Commair's DH2's have shown up in CO schedule flying one daily flight to MDT, HPN, and JFK effective March 2, replacing ERJs.

I'm sure the HPN folk are going to pitch a  hissyfit  about that, if Commutair completely replaces ExpressJet on the route... They always want jet service, snacks and a drink... I've also benefited from the ERJ flights, and I'm sort of spoiled too at this point.  grumpy 

As for the airport, things looked good when I went through in the last two weeks... although I agree that the CLEaner airport signs are annoying at best. It seems like begging, and I was ticked that I even spent the time reading them at all.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Speaking of security, what's up with closing the 'C' exit at night? I can understand why they would close the checkpoint, but there's nothing more irritating than getting off a 5+ hour flight, walking to where you should be able to head straight to baggage claim and instead seeign a sign and having to walk several hundred feet further, just to go down an escalator, make a U-Turn and backtrack to baggage claim 9, then walk back to the parking structure.(

That's completely a $$$ thing, from what I understand. No one wants to pay the extra $$$ to have a TSA employee sit there during slower hours so no one come in through the exit area. It was open for a while about a month back again, but some lady who doesn't speak english somehow got onto the concurse through the exit, and it's been closed since.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 17):
Rather than start a new thread, Commair's DH2's have shown up in CO schedule flying one daily flight to MDT, HPN, and JFK effective March 2, replacing ERJs.

Hadn't seen that yet. The JFK flight does make sense, simply for the reason that the DH2's have a lot more bin space for baggage than the SRJ. And JFK is always top-heavy with checked international bags. HPN surprises me, though. That's usually a good route.


User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 483 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

I remember the days when CLE was heavily promoted as an all jet hub by CO. . . . it's all down hill if the props are going to serve exising markets rather than opening new ones. Maybe the new generation of props is better, but the ones I flew on 10 years or so ago were noisy and slow.

User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Anything else planned?

Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my last post...but I believe a new control tower is also in the mix.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
...but I believe a new control tower is also in the mix.

I heard that too, I never really understood why, the one they have isn't that old (10 years) or so iirc... anyone else know why they might need one?



Why do I fly???
25 MasseyBrown : Just my opinion (and I live 350 miles away) but: it's 100% certain that something will happen, although it may be the 10,000ft-plus compromise the ci
26 BOAC911 : They are currently operating 4 daily ERJ-145 flights on this route (approx 200 seats). Which begs the question: Could they make two daily frequencies
27 HPAEAA : currently AA and COX match schedules.. COX 4 Daily MQ 4 Daily CR7, the only difference is that COX adds one extra flight during peak periods.... I wo
28 Flyinryan99 : I think with an increase in seats by CommutAir they are going to need to do something. I don't think you'd see only 2 735's but maybe something more
29 Bucknut : There also has been a lot of talk about Northwest moving to A concourse. Hopefully they can upgrade customs on C4 through C8. It only makes sence to h
30 Post contains images Lincoln : Really? Wow. Does CO want the gates full-time or is there some other reason for the proposed move? I've always thought with how tight NW and CO are t
31 Bucknut : I believe they have been trying to get these gates for some time now. They would be full-time. With the Q-200's coming on this spring, gate space we b
32 Bucknut : Yes, it starts the last week in feb, I believe the 22nd. The 2007 bank scedule is out and tues and wed are full through out the year. There maybe a f
33 N766UA : The current tower isn't tall enough to provide good visability if the 11,250 foot extension is completed. Both are on hold. As for NW moving, AA to m
34 N231YE : Tower isn't tall enough as stated. In addition, people over at CLE I know state that the ATC are "whiners"...and that they complain about the elevato
35 MasseyBrown : There is apparently an interesting possibility mentioned on the opShots board that the new tower could be on the NASA side of the runways - providing
36 Falcon84 : Why? If it's more economical to do so, then it makes sense. And besides, most customers don't really care, as long as it's safe and reliable. I would
37 Mbm3 : I have heard/seen that as well and it does make sense. Plus, I think it would be "easier" as it would not involve a loss of gates as other solutions
38 Falcon84 : Yeah, me too. I don't clock out till 2130, so it's closed by the time I get there as well.
39 Post contains images Mbm3 : I dont mind it all that much when I dont check bags, but when I do it is a pain in the rear backtracking to grab bags. I can imagine it is the same f
40 N231YE : The Operations Tower sure is nice...love the catwalk around it, I got some good photos of AF1 when it came to CLE in either late July or August.
41 Mbm3 : Very nice indeed. Pretty cool about AF1, all I was fortunate enough to see was a United 767 carrying the Broncos in for a Browns game.
42 Post contains images Lincoln : Every time I get off a flight I hear countless other pax grumbling, and you're right it does seem to be closing earlier and earlier. Surely CLE's big
43 Post contains images Falcon84 : It is. You should see it when a huge thunderstorm rolls in-it may not help the Ops much, but the view you get is incredible.
44 N231YE : And I am still trying to figure out which Ops person you are..."Fish," Paul, Hugh, maybe Jack, I must be missing someone in here...
45 Lincoln : I was at the airport on that day -- doing the A/V Control System Programming for the Anthony Hopkins room near the end of A... One of the airport guy
46 Mbm3 : It was just a fluke for me. My tour happened to be up in the tower at the right time and it was quite a sight amongst all of the jungle jets!
47 Post contains images Falcon84 : Those are names I haven't heard-maybe they'er MX ops people in the D tower. I reside in the C ops tower at night. And you know my name: Falcon84
48 N231YE : I am thinking of the Airport Operations Tower, at the end of concourse B.
49 Post contains images N231YE : Make that the real Ops Tower-the guys who get to drive 4x4s on the runways and handle disputes between CO employees and janitors .
50 Post contains images Falcon84 : Ah, OK. I'm perched atop of the end of C. You're lucky I'm on medication.
51 Post contains images N231YE : A wannabie atop the "banjo"...I see. Well, at-least you have near direct access to the CO employee store...all I had was a Cinnabon near the elevator
52 N766UA : Incredibly true. CLE Tower guys are the worst, they complain about everything. Go figure no other tracons, ZOB, or pilots like dealing with them. Alt
53 Post contains images Lincoln : Hey, any time you want to give a fan a tour of your perch, like January 22nd at about 5pm or Jaunary 25th after 8pm... Lincoln
54 Post contains links and images Chrisjake : i was there too! http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-730
55 RJdxer : It's a shame Cleveland never went for the Jetport out on the lake. No expansion worries, no nimbys to worry about. I'm glad to hear the IX center has
56 HPAEAA : god I pray not... I really like the gates that AA has now... let NW have the backside... ehh, what the hell I'll send a not to customer relations (li
57 FUN2FLY : Ricky Smith seems pretty sharp, so we know he's got a plan for the international part as part of his first days speach was to get more international
58 Falcon84 : Well, last summer, AM toyed with the idea of CLE-MEX service. Their reps were even in CLE, and talk to some CO people, from what I remember.
59 Mbm3 : They even got approval for the route, which was rumoured to be in support of a charter flight to CUN. That was part of the original plan, but it seem
60 Greenair727 : Direct service to Mexico City would be great for Cleveland. Anybody know if this is going to happen or when the city is expected to announce what the
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