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Never Airline Staff In C Or F-class!  
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

This seems to be a never ending discussion among airline staff but i say just one thing: Customers first! If there is empty seats in Business- or First-class (for airlines that still have F-class), always upgrade paying customers first! NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it. I can not understand that some people do not agree with this "policy"...  Angry
But i am looking forward to Your argument against the above.  Smile

119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1113 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12241 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
This seems to be a never ending discussion among airline staff but i say just one thing: Customers first! If there is empty seats in Business- or First-class (for airlines that still have F-class), always upgrade paying customers first! NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it. I can not understand that some people do not agree with this "policy"...
But i am looking forward to Your argument against the above.

How do you determine which paying passengers get the upgrade?
Will this stop people from purchasing FC tickets on the chance they will get an upgrade?
Why does it matter so much to you..too cheap to buy an upgrade?


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12240 times:

I believe this had been discussed ad nauseum. Good topic though.

Question: If there are no more available people eligible to upgrade and people don't want to use mileage or pay for the difference and there are empty seats, then what? Upgrade people just because? Give away a premium product for free?

Here is one

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class (by Exitrowaisle Dec 28 2000 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=355116&s=non+revs+in+first#ID355116

to start with.

[Edited 2007-01-07 21:32:10]

[Edited 2007-01-07 21:39:01]


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12215 times:

if a paying customer want a upgrade, than pay for it.... cash, with miles or with the frequent-flyer status....


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 203 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12216 times:

Do you mean paying customer as in someone with a coach fare and there are empty seats up front airlines should just move them up there to be nice?? Or, are you saying that airlines should move the coach pax up if they are willing to pay for it?

I think if there are seats open up front and coach pax want to pay for it, fine. Free upgrades just to be nice? No. It's a business not a charity.



Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12186 times:

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 1):
Will this stop people from purchasing FC tickets on the chance they will get an upgrade?

This absolutely happens -- a lot. On carriers like LH and (especially) SQ, passengers are willing to pay the premium fares because they know that's what it costs to sit up front. On carriers like UA and US, passengers are willing only to pay discounted economy fares, because they know from experience that's what it costs to sit up front.


User currently offlineLGWspeedbird From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12162 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it.

so how about if the staff member has a priority that allows them to be in that cabin??



upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12108 times:

At the airline I work for, the rule is as follows:

To get a seat in C-class:
1 passengers with a confirmed C class ticket
2. passengers holding a C-class request ticket, and a confirmed M-class seat(same fare as confirmed C-ticket, but unable to confirm at time of booking)
3. passengers with a confirmed M-class ticket willing and able to pay for the upgrade
4. passengers with a confirmed M-class ticket and willing and able to upgrade using FF miles
5. passengers with a confirmed M-class ticket holding a Elite FF card will get a complimentary upgrade when M-class is overbooked and M-class passengers are on the waitlist.
6. passengers with a confirmed M-class ticket who are on the waitlist (due to overbooking)
7. airline staff on duty travel/ dead heading crew
8. staff on leisure travel with a C-class priority (a.o. airline CEO, higher management, captains, pursers)
9. staff on leisure travel with M-class priority if M-class is not available.

Note 1: Commercial passengers will ALWAYS get a seat assigned before standby staff on leisure travel is accepted.
Note 2: commercial passengers with a waitlisted M-class ticket will NEVER be upgraded if M-class checks in full. To accomodate those passengers then confirmed M-class passengers will be upgraded (starting with Elites/full fare M)
Note 3: I guess Bofrederik has problems with point 8 and 9. Well I guess that's the benefit of working for an airline.  

[Edited 2007-01-07 21:51:58]

User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12057 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 7):

Exactly. They dont seem to understand. Get em working for an airline, and how much do you want to bet they will shut up and stop compiling, and SOOO look forward to maybe turning left or going upstairs on there travels


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21415 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12057 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 7):
9. staff on leisure travel with M-class priority if M-class is not available.

I think that's the best policy. It gives the consumer every opportunity to upgrade, and gives the leisure travel staff member every expectation of being in Y, but if things work out just right for the leisure travel staff member they can get in C.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2491 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12040 times:

Don't most staff, retired or others with pass priviledges pay upgrade fees to sit in the front of the aircraft as well and get there only on a standby basis? Revenue is revenue vs. upgrading a Y passenger for no charge.

Besides, what does the guy paying think if his seatmate is a Y class passenger that's been upgraded because there's an empty seat.

Additionally, most carriers have dress codes to ride up front and today's pass riders are happy to get on and really happy to get in First on a rare basis. If the flight attendents are doing their best, pass riders can be asked their menu choice last to offer paying passengers the full range of choices. F priviledges can't hurt the morale of employees either.

What could be changed is the positive space F class seat for crew members (who usually just sleep) and crew that are given F seats for rest purposes on long haul flights. You'd think there would be a better way to leave F seats available for highly paying revenue passengers. I guess the 787 and some 777's/Airbus aircraft will have above the ceiling sleeping quarters. That makes sense.


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11993 times:

Employees are always at the bottom of the upgrade list. You won't see an employee in F or C unless all eligible revenue passengers have been accomodated. This is universal at all airlines. Regular/discount fare coach passengers are not eligible for upgrades because it degrades the product. Who would pay for F/C if they knew they could get a free upgrade on their discounted Y class ticket? I see nothing wrong with offering seats that would otherwise go empty to employees as a perk. Many airlines charge employees fees for the upgrade.

I suppose your job doesn't offer you any perks? When I worked for Disney I got free park entry. If you work for a retailer you get merchandise discounts and so on.


User currently offlineDABZF From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 1200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11970 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
always upgrade paying customers first! NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it.

... do you mean upgrade M-class passengers even if there are enough M-seats available? No airline would ever do this, why should they give out free upgrades?

... or do you mean that a non-rev is given the last C or F class even though a someone would be willing to pay for the upgrade? I can say that I have been personally taken away a C-seat twice because someone wanted to pay an upgrade at the last minute. On the second time I was even already sitting on my seat! Both occasions I had a C-class non-rev ticket purchased. Oh I don't say this because I think it's wrong... of course it's not wrong... paying customer comes always first, but not without a price.

[Edited 2007-01-07 22:19:45]


I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11951 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
Upgrade people just because? Give away a premium product for free?



Quoting IH8B6 (Reply 4):
Free upgrades just to be nice?

Isn't that exactly what you are doing for a nonrev upgraded to first?

And if the concern is that people won't pay or use miles, couldn't the same argument be made against giving free upgrades even to elites, who fly more often and are probably more likely to purchase the occasional first class seat?

How about a random lottery for left over first/business class seats? That would be something to advertise that would distinguish an airline's product.

But I agree, paying customers first. Many of you airline employees seem to think nonreving is a natural born right. Most of the rest of us that aren't airline employees and don't fly frequently for business would give practically anything to fly for free.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

In my experience, pass riders (except maybe for certain senior management and job-related functions) are prioritized below all revenue passengers for any seat, whether it be in the premium cabin or not. So if there is one open seat left in coach, a standby revenue passenger will get it over any pass rider; likewise, if there is one open seat in J it will be given to anyone who pays for it, anyone who pays for an upgrade, or anyone whose frequent flyer status and/or fare class qualifies him or her for the upgrade. Only once all paid and status upgrades have been awarded and open seats remain will a pass rider be given any remaining F/J seats.

Flight benefits are part of the compensation package of airline employees. If space is available in a premium cabin after all qualifying revenue passengers have been upgraded, and the particular airline's policy allows pass riders to sit in the premium cabin, the pass rider gets that seat because it's part of the employee's compensation - just as your employer may compensate you with health insurance or a pension plan.

If you're saying that you don't like employees being upgraded to premium cabins ahead of paying customers, or those who qualify for an upgrade per the airline's rules, I will agree with you - and also say that you're misinformed, because I don't think any airline has a policy to upgrade pass riders before any qualifying revenue customers. If you're saying that the airline should upgrade any revenue passenger, regardless of whether they have paid or have the status to get an upgrade, you're just wrong - the employee has "paid" for their seat with their labor (just as you might "pay" for your health insurance with your labor), but the revenue passenger has paid for a Y seat, which is what he or she will get. Giving away a $5000 long-haul J seat to someone on a $300 T fare just to keep an employee out of it devalues the J product, reduces the benefits to loyal customers who have earned the seat through paid upgrades or elite status, and lowers the value of the employee's compensation (not to mention morale), all for no benefit to the airline.



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11872 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 13):
But I agree, paying customers first. Many of you airline employees seem to think nonreving is a natural born right.

Nonrevving isn't a natural born right, it's part of the negotiated compensation package for airline employees. Pass travel, including in premium cabins if there is space available and the airline's rules permit it, is part of employee compensation just as the paychecks are. The customer, on the other hand, has paid for a product and will get the product he/she paid for. What justification is there for giving a customer (who has not paid for or qualified via status for an upgrade) a free product that he or she did not pay for?

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 13):
Most of the rest of us that aren't airline employees and don't fly frequently for business would give practically anything to fly for free.

You don't have to give practically anything; it's easy to fly for free. Just go work for an airline, and you will get pass rider benefits as part of your compensation package. In exchange, you will likely have terrible hours (at least starting out) and make much less money than you could in a similar job outside of aviation. If you did that, you would probably appreciate how much of your compensation is made up by employee travel benefits.



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11861 times:

Many people outside the aviation industry have the misconception that staff have unlimited travel in F for free - this is far from the truth! At my airline the policy is, in my view, very fair.

Most staff have an M class priority, and will travel in M if there's a seat available. If M is full but there are seats available in premium cabins, in most cases staff will be upgraded. After 10 years service there is the option to pay for a J priority ticket once a year. Staff on duty have at least a J priority, and managers have an F class priority.

Airline industry pay is lower than most others, and travel concessions can be one of the main reasons people choose to work for an airline. I think the most important thing is to have a fair balance between perks for a good level of staff morale, and of course keeping commercial passengers happy at the same time - most airlines balance this well.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2491 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11860 times:

Non-reving used to be fun and predictable. Nowdays, you have to pad you trip to be sure you arrive by the date you would like. Forget the front cabin, its always full with upgrades. My wife got stuck in IAH for 3.5 days last February. That benefit of "flying for free" included 2 hotel nights, living at IAH for 3+ days, checking the screens, changing gates every hour or so and trying creative routings to get out of town. With legacy scheules, there are few P2P flights, so you're going through a hub, which can end up with cancellations due to weather and ATC.
When stuck, the alternative is full fare on another carrier and that's not cheap.
As a non-rev, you must plan ahead, check all loads and be prepared to fly on Tuesday and Wednesday. Even Saturdays are really tight as carriers have trimmed services to meet demand and the demand is usually planned with just enough seats.


User currently offlineTpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11860 times:

Do restaurants give away the extra food to their customers , or does their staff typically get it? I've personally never gone in, ordered a cheeseburger and got a filet mignon? Don't think this doesn't happen in retail too!

Do you have a business? If so how often to you give away your premium product just because you have extra lying around? You think I can swing by a pick up an "extra" '06 BMW tonite since they are left over?

If not, then why is air travel suppose to be different? Is there a reason you find this so bothersome? The strength of your statement almost has an emotional value to it. Do you get the product you paid for; while others something they earned another way? How is that not fair?

[Edited 2007-01-07 22:31:22]

User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 203 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11816 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 13):
How about a random lottery for left over first/business class seats? That would be something to advertise that would distinguish an airline's product.

Would never work...you would piss too many elites on free upgrades off by sitting them next to the guy who has nothing more than the clothes on his back and all is worldly belongings in his carryon garbage bags (yes they fly, I've boarded many of them in my gate agent days) or the 'punk looking' skater kid. The idea of making a criteria to be eligible for the lottery is too much work when more important things need to be done, plus the skater kid or the garbage guy would sue for discrimination.

Nonreving isn't a right for airline employees, it's a priveledge. Likewise, premium seats aren't a right even for paying customers who bought a coach ticket. They have the options to buy upgrades to the premium seats. If they choose not to, they go to the employees or go empty.

[Edited 2007-01-07 22:31:27]


Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11787 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it.

Is every passenger always more important then your own staff?

Are they travelling for fun only?


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2491 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11762 times:

TPAewr, the difference is that an airline seat is perishable. As soon as the aircraft pushes, every empty seat can't be sold or given away.

To compare it to going out to dinner, it would be more like arriving and being told to wait for a table. If a reservation no shows for the best table, they call you and give you the table. Is that an upgrade? No they won't upgrade your food.


User currently offlineWingnut767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11750 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 13):
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
Upgrade people just because? Give away a premium product for free?



Quoting IH8B6 (Reply 4):
Free upgrades just to be nice?

Isn't that exactly what you are doing for a nonrev upgraded to first?

Every airline has different rules and negotiated deals with there staff. But the average non rev is paying for the flight and even more for being in first. So the company is still making money. They are not free and they are not doing it to be nice. Intl Biz and F/C can still cost a bit to non rev. And actually here in the states it has been much harder to Non rev due to lower capacity and pretty full flights. It is only a benefit if you can get on the Airplane.


User currently offlineTpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11705 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 21):
TPAewr, the difference is that an airline seat is perishable. As soon as the aircraft pushes, every empty seat can't be sold or given away.

To compare it to going out to dinner, it would be more like arriving and being told to wait for a table. If a reservation no shows for the best table, they call you and give you the table. Is that an upgrade? No they won't upgrade your food.

I said nothing about the table, since you don't pay for it. Food is rather perishable as well. Still, if I order and pay for a cheeseburger I will rightly get such. Just because the staff might be picking at something better in the kitchen is none of my concern.

The point is no business gives away there best product for nothing!


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11600 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
This seems to be a never ending discussion among airline staff but i say just one thing: Customers first! If there is empty seats in Business- or First-class (for airlines that still have F-class), always upgrade paying customers first! NEVER alow staff to use a empty seat if a paying customer can have it. I can not understand that some people do not agree with this "policy"...
But i am looking forward to Your argument against the above.

Why in the world should someone be upgraded just so???

If you pay for a BMW 3 series they cardealer definitely won´t let you drive away in a BMW 5 or 7 series... fact!!!

Why is it that people always expect to be upgarded for free, why is it that people always think they can "steal" something from the airline just so... (in that case a revenue F/C-class seat)??? And please don´t tell me "Well the seat is empty, so why not just move people up there"! If a cardealer didn´t sell the BMW 7 series, but you bought a 3 series it still doesn´t give you the right to take the 7 series instead!!!

However any person working for BMW for sure gets some kind of benefits and discounts if he buys a brand new BMW!!!

Every industry has its benefits for its employees. Why not???!!! What´s the big deal!

And one of the benefits of working for an airline is free or in most cases discounted travel in all classes available (of course only if space is available and on a stand-by basis!). It´s the benefit of working for an airline... PERIOD!!!

Just get over it! If you think it is so desirable, go ahead and apply with an airline. Then you´ll have the same benefits. If not, just accept it!!!

Best regads

L1011Lover

[Edited 2007-01-07 23:57:05]

[Edited 2007-01-08 00:17:08]

25 Post contains images LHR777 : Anyone notice how the original poster hasn't chimed-in? I reckon he's just trying to kick something off, bringing up such an emotive subject....
26 EWRCabincrew : Once all people who are eligible for upgrade, want the upgrade and pay the difference and there are seats still available (an employee would never go
27 CALPSAFltSkeds : Tpaewr: OK I understand your comment and agree. As far as cars, I've been upgraded many times with a rent-a-car. I'm sure they upgrade because they ra
28 Charlienorth : Excellent gesture or if someone is going to a funeral or a returning serviceman,but it shouldn't be handled as the original(who hasn't responded)sugg
29 DeltAirlines : My thoughts are that if you are a paying customer that is willing and able to upgrade to the front cabin (through cash, frequent flyer miles, certific
30 Yyz717 : The same should apply to airline staff. If an airline employee flying non-rev wants an upgrade, then pay for it, with miles or with the frequent-flye
31 Jetdeltamsy : It makes no sense for an airline to give away, or virtually give away our premium product just because there are empty seats. You should be willing t
32 Charlienorth : We do pay significantly more for FC
33 Yyz717 : Then if its part of your compensation package, you should pay tax on it, aka a taxable benefit. Otherwise, it's a freebie which SHOULD remain empty i
34 Jetdeltamsy : Clearly you are speaking of something you do not know about. Several years ago, the IRS determined that employees, their dependants and parents could
35 Goldenshield : Taxes are paid, and guess who (usually) foots that tax bill? Hint: it's not the employees.
36 VC10DC10 : No. Free upgrades when there are airline employees trying to ride for free. I was upgraded for free once because the gate agent "liked the sound of m
37 AirTran737 : Guess what buddy? You are way wrong. One of the only perks we have left is being able to snag a ride up in first. Many of us have watched our pay dro
38 Mjlhou : How is this a valid argument?! As stated by others, if you work for a company that deals in autos, electronics, hotels or any other tangible good or
39 Charlienorth : No weve just taken pay and work rulr concessions so fares can be lower than they were in 1989.
40 FutureFO : We pay for our travel on every airline. It may not be the 5000 that Joe Biz has paid but we still pay for our travel. I will let you know what LHR-LAX
41 Post contains images BritPilot777 : As has been mentioned by those in the know (unlike it seems the original thread starter) staff are never given priority over commercial passengers. I
42 Ikramerica : Yes. But there's also an argument that leaving a full Y pax behind because there are only J seats available, yet putting a non-rev airline employee i
43 Yyz717 : Oh I do know what I'm talking about. I said SHOULD pay tax. Regardless of what the IRS' most recent ruling was, you are getting a taxable benefit whe
44 Stevens91 : I work for ANA in CDG, Rebate Passengers have the possibility to upgrade to C Class with an Upgrade Certificate... But I don't know what are the condi
45 Post contains images Mjlhou : If there's a non-rev listed for it who will pay a higher non-rev fare than the "big Nothing" a passenger without elite status or more , then it's NOT
46 Charlienorth : How do they know it's staff being put in FC,policy is mouth shut,maybe the fact that we are better dressed than the average Y class pax is the giveaw
47 L1011Lover : Well maybe some of the non-airline employees around here wanna share any information about the benefits they get from the industries they´re working
48 AirTran737 : I said some of us, I have done very well for myself and have never seen my pay do anything but climb.
49 Zeke : I do get one "free of charge" (FOC) ticket each year, however the passage is not free. I still pay the taxs and surcharges for that ticket, this can
50 N766UA : To heck with that, I bust my ass every day so people can get from A to B with all their stuff. The least the company can do is give me an open F seat,
51 L1011Lover : Well and if you desire our perks so much, then why don´t you just change industries??? Apply with an airline! Nobody forced you to work in the indus
52 Jetdeltamsy : Yes, the hell, we DO pay for it. It appears on our pay statement. First is listed Earnings, then is listed Imputed Earnings. This increases our annua
53 Post contains images Charlienorth : A small reward for changing an IDG in quick time so our customers can get to their destination on time,or loading a pit on a '73 on a hot day,or serv
54 EWRCabincrew : L1011, the silence is deafening. Eventhough this is an aviation forum, the question was asked, so where are the answers? It would be nice to make a c
55 Charlienorth : Funny thing is I don't resent "perks" anyone else gets,and I think most airline folk agree.
56 Mohavewolfpup : I worked for petsmart for a while, my "benefit" was a rip roaring 15% off anything in the store (and being the one to set up the planograms) I know w
57 GoCOgo : Well, I weigh over 250 lb, so flight attendant is out, I don't have the money for flight training, so pilot is out, I have back pain when moving heav
58 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : My post wasn't meant as resentment towards others or for others to have resentment. It was purely meant to get a little knowledge of what non-airline
59 United767 : Deal with it. Enough said.
60 Post contains images Charlienorth : You definitely did.....wasn't poking at anyone either,would like to hear from others too,probably won't take that part time job at petsmart to get th
61 FSPilot747 : The airline doesn't lose anything by allowing employees the benefit of a free upgrade. It's called a perk, and it keeps employees happy. If anything,
62 EWRCabincrew : Damn, Pickles will have to drink from the porcelain bowl, now.
63 GoCOgo : What does the airline lose giving a Y class pax an upgrade, then? This might make an interesting topic for discussion in this thread. Maybe then you
64 United767 : Why do Y passengers who paid rock bottom wages for their ticket expect a F upgrade?
65 L1011Lover : Well, then you probably picked a not so "generous" career! But that is your problem, not ours. And that you can´t apply to certain airline jobs whil
66 GoCOgo : Well, first, I don't "expect" an upgrade. But once would be nice. So, I'll answer your question with a question: Why do airline employees who paid li
67 Post contains links DL787932ER : Let's see. You could be a flight dispatcher, filing flight plans, resolving enroute issues in coordination with the flight crew, etc. There are a few
68 Cairo : Remember that for a lot of people, the flight benefits don't come close to making up the lower salary they earn versus life in another industry. A lot
69 Charlienorth : OK..our downside is getting left behind,watching flight after flight depart,not griping,it's revenue,figuring out with the wife what we'll do if only
70 United767 : As stated about 40 times above, we bust our humps doing our job, and it is nothing but a "perk". Plus We only get it 1 out of every 10 flights if were
71 DL787932ER : No pass rider expects an F seat; the premium cabin is never expected or guaranteed. Pass riders get a seat only after all revenue passengers who may
72 Jetdeltamsy : EDS employees on the SABRE account get travel benefits on AA. Some Servisair employees,which is a ground services company, get travel benefits from s
73 L1011Lover : And why should it not be??? Just because JoeAverage wants to sit there after paying a chaep coach fare? Give me one good reason why a loyal employee
74 DL787932ER : I agree, and so do the airlines. In fact, they have actual guidelines for such "free drinks"; they are the frequent flyer programs, and the rules tha
75 Yyz717 : "JoeAverage" is your customer, and is the reason you even have a job. He is also likely paying more for the flight than you are as a non-rev or ID90.
76 DxBrian : What makes you think airline employees don't pay fees for non-rev travel? Different airlines have different rules, but there is always some fee charg
77 L1011Lover : Okay, just try it... go to a cardealer, buy a BMW 325 series and then try to persuade the dealer to drive away in a BMW 725 and use the same argument
78 Jetdeltamsy : The customer ALWAYS has the option of PAYING THE FARE for F or C. It can be done at the gate just prior to departure. If we give away ALL of our prem
79 Post contains images VC10DC10 : Typical customer getting unexpected free upgrade to F: charge on VISA $300 (for original ticket) Nonrevving airline employee getting free ride in F:
80 Ctheworld : It isn't even an upgrade, it is take whatever seat is available, thus it is called Space Available travel, if the space is there, first, business, ce
81 L1011Lover : I show a lot respect to our customers while offering them superior service. But respect has nothing to do with moving them up front for nothing! Plas
82 VC10DC10 : Overlooking the potentially humorous aspects of your remark, I would contest this statement very strongly. If you are in the customer service busines
83 Post contains images L1011Lover : NONSENSE!!! The airline doesn´t lose a cent from putting its employee up front. They wouldn´t lose a cent from putting the customer up front either
84 L1011Lover : Go ahead... go to the BMW dealer like I suggested a few times before. Try to persuade them with the same nonsense!!! You´ll be kicked off the proper
85 DL787932ER : Employees in any industry are willing to do their jobs in exchange for certain compensation. This compensation could be money (your paycheck), health
86 VC10DC10 : And I'm sure you all pay tax on it, right? (Yes, I know, we don't pay tax on healh insurance, etc., but I suggest it would be fairer all around if em
87 Style : Can have it based on what? Person pays for a coach seat and gets a coach seat. The employee works for the airline and that is his PERK. Some classes
88 CALPSAFltSkeds : Wow, this thread is getting nasty. It seems that some are upset that free upgrades to F/C are not given to those who pay for Y while staff are upgrade
89 VC10DC10 : I certainly see your point. What surprises me is that you stand for this and don't switch to another airline and use it just like any other customer.
90 HPAEAA : As long as it's elites then employee's I'm fine with it... if I were to see a fa or someone up there when I was on the upgrade list, I might be a litt
91 Post contains images Mjlhou : And this is just the point, it's a choice and a BENNEFIT as pointed out by L1011Lover. The airlines don't demand u travel non-rev, they just offer it
92 An-225 : Every job has its perks. My friend has a company car, free insurance and free gas. My perk just happens to be the flight benefits. If I dress up appro
93 FutureFO : However there are airlines and union contracts that require the employee (Pilot, FA) be booked in at least C. UA has that in their Pilots contract. An
94 IAirAllie : No. Consider a hotel employee. They get free stays and upgrades to better rooms when all paid guests have been accomodated. Regular guests aren't giv
95 United777atGU : To my UA Employees... I love BP10 / Perf Incentive!!!
96 Post contains images LHR777 : Here's how I see it, as an airline employee. I've been an employee of a European 'major airline' for just over 2 years now. I previously worked in the
97 FSPilot747 : They lose the honor of giving it to one of their hard working employees who've taken more sh*t than you'd ever know from customers like you. Maybe wh
98 LHR777 : You're obviously unaware of the fact that employee travel is ineligible for frequent flyer mileage accrual, or for the use of frequent-flyer elite be
99 Jetdeltamsy : It's about prestige, ambiance and priviledge. When employees are granted free travel and are traveling in first class, we are expected to be well dre
100 FlyingKangaroo : Wow, this really is a heated subject. Ok, so I work in a fast food chain, serving people their burgers and such for 4-5 hours a day, 4 times a week. W
101 Bofredrik : If it is for example empty seats in C or F, and it is overbooked in Y, give first seats to paying passengers. Simple rule!
102 Bofredrik : And airline staff should get it for free? Are you serious?
103 Bofredrik : If the airline put staff in a empty C or F, give it for free to any paying passenger. Ofcourse do the airline need a policy for this.
104 Bofredrik : Cnl that policy. Only a seat in C or F if no paying passenger want it.
105 Bofredrik : I have worked for SAS and also as travel agent for many years. I am not working at McDonalds... And they do not get free hamburgers!
106 Bofredrik : I do not want to se staff in C or F any time!
107 Bofredrik : I think that you who live in the US have a special situation, but the world is big and i am talking about this in general. Is it not better for you i
108 Keesje : I've been on very important trips for the airline I used to work for. U requested & got tickets that leave full paying passengers at the gate. Big sh
109 Bofredrik : You mean that i should accept it? No, It is wrong.
110 Post contains images LHR777 : ...well, either keep your eyes shut, or take the bus! Moaning and whining on about it here isn't going to do anything other than piss-off a lot of ha
111 Bofredrik : Important! I do not want any staff in C or F. From CEO and "down"... I suggest that any airline have a firm policy with that content. I am not against
112 Trekster : Also, you would not be able to tell there were staff in the cabin, we always dress smart and the the least demanding as noted above. Its part of the r
113 Jamake1 : Fortunately, there aren't tyrants such as yourself dictating such draconian policy at the world's airlines... As another poster has already explained
114 DABZF : Bofredrik: I really don't see your point or problem!? Except that it seems that YOU are trying to get a free upgrade! Now isn't this exactly against w
115 Post contains images UAL777UK : They DONT expect a first class seat, thats a bonus, if it gets them from A to B, in this day and age of high load factors getting on the flight is a
116 Post contains images Sketty222 : Completely agree So have you never travelled staff travel and had an upgrade. I bet if you have you didnt turn it down!!!!
117 JayDub : OK...so it sounds like someone didn't have the cash or the status to upgrade and saw someone wearing an airline ID get in First instead of him. I'm no
118 FlyingKangaroo : The customer is the most important, and that's is why the airline looks after you. If the flight is full in Y, then the airline will put their highes
119 PanAm_DC10 : After many deletions and some members persistence in posting in a manner which is not conducive to a civil discussion this thread will now be closed.
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