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A 744 Question  
User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7055 times:

Hello
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F
Thanks

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7036 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

Correct me if im wrong, but arent all 744s equipped with the stretched deck standard?



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7006 times:

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Correct me if im wrong, but arent all 744s equipped with the stretched deck standard?

I believe that is absolutely correct.

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

Not that I know of.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

No. All pax 744's have the stretched upper deck. Boeing built the 744F with the standard upper deck because a stretched upper deck is not necessary. You may see some 744 cargo planes with stretched upper decks. They were converted from pax/combi to cargo.


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7002 times:

As ever, a picture is worth a thousand words  Wink


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User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?

Thanks


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6915 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?
The standard upper deck for a 747-400 is the stretched upper deck.

All PAX 747-400s are equipped with the stretch upper deck.

[Edited 2007-01-07 23:23:36]


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Thank you but are the any 747-400 passenger with a "200 Standard" Upper-Deck?

User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?

No. If they were equipped with a standard upper deck, those would be of the 747-100/-200 variants. ALL 744's have the stretched upper deck, that is part of their main, unique improvement from the standard 747's. The 747-300 also has the stretched upper deck...



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 969 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6890 times:

no, non, nyet, lo, none. The 747-400 passenger aircraft includes the longer upper deck. If it doesn't have it, it's not a 747-400 pax aircraft.

User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

Thanks, but what I am saying is that most 744F have a shortenened -200 like upper deck. But are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6879 times:

Thank you very much. This info really helped me as today I was on my 2nd 747-a 228F!!! operated by Atlas Air (809MC) and I was just curious. The upper-deck is so cool on the 747....also my first Tristar today.

Thanks Again


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6860 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
But are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

The answer to your question is no.

Interestingly, there are a small number of -200's that have had their upper decks stretched to the size of a -400.


User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6852 times:

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
The 747-300 also has the stretched upper deck...

Weren't there some KLM 742s with it also?

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
ALL 744's have the stretched upper deck, that is part of their main, unique improvement from the standard 747's.

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...


User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6826 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

Weren't there some KLM 742s with it also?

yes there were...The 742BM (SUD)'s

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1040723/L/

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...

lol yes...that goes without saying though....  Big grin

those aren't exactly noticeable, either, but thanks  Big grin



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9243 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6775 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...

"extended fuselage"...you sure ? thought the lengh of the aircraft has not changed in 30 years ?

AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
"extended fuselage"...you sure ? thought the lengh of the aircraft has not changed in 30 years ?

AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.

that is correct.



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1259 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6713 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.

Don't forget that beautiflul brand new 747-8. It features the first ever fuselage stretch in the aircrafts history. Lovely Bird (at least I think it will be)! Big grin



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6597 times:

Another 744 oddity is the special 744D model built for JL and NH for shorthaul domestic service which does not have winglets. That makes them easy to confuse with 743s. Winglets can be added later should these aircraft be transferred to longhaul service. The winglets didn't generate any operational benefits on short domestic routes so they were omitted to reduce weight.


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User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):

Apart from more seats, are there any other differences between 744Ds and regular pax 744s?


User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6576 times:

Wasnt there a 742 that was made into a 744 ?>>> and wasnt some 744, windows pluged for some reason,,,there was something odd there i cant remember,,


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6553 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 2):
Not that I know of.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 6):
All PAX 747-400s are equipped with the stretch upper deck.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 7):
Thank you but are the any 747-400 passenger with a "200 Standard" Upper-Deck?



Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
No.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
Thanks, but what I am saying is that most 744F have a shortenened -200 like upper deck.



Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 9):
no, non, nyet, lo, none.

Wow, you really want to make the answer a YES, dont you?

My favorite reply is this:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
The answer to your question is no.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 19):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):


Apart from more seats, are there any other differences between 744Ds and regular pax 744s?

In addition to no winglets, the 744D also lacks the wingtip extensions of other 744s. The 744D wingspan is thus identical to the 741/742/743, approximately 16 feet less than the standard 744. I believe the 744D may have some other reinforcements in things like landing gear/brakes etc. to cope with the much more frequent landing/takeoff cycles but I'm not sure. You could probably get a better answer in the Tech/Ops forum.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6409 times:

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

No. The 747-400PAX and 747-400 Combi have pretty much the same fuselage as the 747-300. The 747-400 Freighter (except those who got aftermarket conversions from PAX to freighter aircraft) use basically the same fuselage of the 747-100/-200.

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 20):
Wasnt there a 742 that was made into a 744

No. However, there is the 747-200SUD. Here an example with KL PH-BUN.

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The 747-200SUD is what later became the 747-300 and in time evolved to the 747-400.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
The 747-200SUD is what later became the 747-300 and in time evolved to the 747-400.

Your chronology isn't quite right. The 747-200SUD didn't "later become" the 747-300. The factory-built 747-300 had been in service for some time (first service with Swissair March 23, 1983) before KL decided to modify 11 of their 747-200s to add the stretched upper deck. KL also bought 3 new 747-300s in addition to the 11 -200SUD conversions. All KL -300s and -200SUDs now sold/retired.

Apart from the 747SP, the -300 was the least successful 747 model in terms of sales -- only 81 were built apart from the KL -200SUD conversions.

One of the 3 factory-built -300s originally operated by KL is still a frequent visitor to AMS:


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[Edited 2007-01-08 09:34:37]

[Edited 2007-01-08 09:36:29]

25 AsstChiefMark : If you really want to screw with his mind, let's talk about where the VC-25A fits into this mess. Mark
26 Post contains images TinkerBelle : LOL.. That'll do it. Funniest thread starter ever.
27 ChiGB1973 : I am curious about this? Whose tristar, did you look at it, fly on it? M
28 DarkBlue : Ah come guys, let's be nice. He did have a good question, but each time he restated it he still didn't phrase it in a good way. CodyKDiamond, might I
29 9VSIO : Did any earlier 747s get a refit with glass cockpit though?
30 Zeke : Think KLM, QF (partial) and Air Force One.
31 Jfk777 : After the 747-300 all passenger 747's were extended upper decks. The last short decks(-100/200) would have been built around 1988 until production of
32 1stfl94 : JAL and UTA also had aircraft fitted with the SUD, don't know if JAL's are still flying but UTA's are still flying for Air France
33 Post contains links and images UpperDeck79 : JAL never had any converted, the -100SR/SUDs came with the streched upper deck straight from the factory: View Large View MediumPhoto © YK Retir
34 Post contains links EI321 : Also, the UAE 747SP VIP has had a glass cockpit retrofitted, thus making it a one of a kind aircraft! Pictures can be found here: http://www.747sp.co
35 LTU932 : Am I correct in saying that the -300 failed because no other measures were taken to give it a good range with the weight increase from the stretched
36 BoeingFixer : Actually the range of the SUD 743 was very good at 7700 NM. This was due to the better fuel burns of newer engines and minor aerodynamic changes. Wha
37 1stfl94 : The 743 did have some improvements in range over older models but not enough for most operators who wanted a much more improved aircraft. Boeing init
38 HighFlyer9790 : All 744 have a stretched upper deck...thats why they were developed in the first place...(743 first)
39 Mptpa : All factory built 744F have short upper deck. AC that got converted from passenger variant will have the standard stretched upper deck of the B744. T
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