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Morgan Stanley Joins US Bid For DL  
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070108/1399622.html?.v=1

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

Let the stacking of the deck begin.

Note that USAirways hasn't uped its offer yet...just added a respected financial institution that has bought into the merger.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6152 times:
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It doesn't mean very much other than US saying they're essentially planning on borrowing money from Morgan Stanley and Citibank to fund their merger plan if it happens.

All you can infer from this press release is that both banks believe that US' plans are solid enough that they're worth loaning out a few billions for. It's an endorsement of sorts, but it's also the kind of deals the two banks (and several others) do for a living, it's not major news.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2824 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6150 times:

With both the Citi group, and Morgan Stanley, US Airways has a huge portion of the investment community coming into this merger, and it gives US room to increase the bid if they need to.

It also will increase institutional investors willingness to fund portions of the combined US/DL debt. Morgan Stanley has a reputation for making a lot of money, but at a lot of risk.


User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5991 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2):
It doesn't mean very much other than US saying they're essentially planning on borrowing money from Morgan Stanley and Citibank to fund their merger plan if it happens.

All you can infer from this press release is that both banks believe that US' plans are solid enough that they're worth loaning out a few billions for. It's an endorsement of sorts, but it's also the kind of deals the two banks (and several others) do for a living, it's not major news.

Morgan Stanley and Citibank aren't necessarily loaning out money; they are the underwriters for the debt offering to finance the deal; the institutional investors who purchase the debt are the ones loaning out the money.

Morgan Stanley is a very prestigious name on Wall Street, so by adding a name like Morgan Stanley, I am sure US Airways hopes people may look at the deal in a new way.


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
With both the Citi group, and Morgan Stanley, US Airways has a huge portion of the investment community coming into this merger, and it gives US room to increase the bid if they need to.

Amen, and I can't wait for SLC's T2 to start sporting US Airways plane at the gate...



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineFlight777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

If US and DL were dating, I guess US doesn't understand N.O. means NO!!

User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5916 times:

This on the same day that Gordon Bethune is meeting with US Airways.

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Ain't goin' to happen. Just ain't goin' to!

US already has its hands tied up in dealing with it own debt and labor problems. I really am surprised that Morgan Stanely would get behind something like this unless they see a liquidation of assets and something they can turn a profit on in a relatively short period of time.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5874 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 8):
US already has its hands tied up in dealing with it own debt and labor problems. I really am surprised that Morgan Stanely would get behind something like this unless they see a liquidation of assets and something they can turn a profit on in a relatively short period of time.

My company's investments are with Morgan Stanley and and we keep buying LCC stock. Our upper management says its a good deal, and I think so as well. Hell, when the merger goes through,I cash out on top with my company, and DL can liquidate for all its worth.



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
With both the Citi group, and Morgan Stanley, US Airways has a huge portion of the investment community coming into this merger, and it gives US room to increase the bid if they need to.

   They will need to do this since it seams the major creditor players are balking at the idea of so much of the deal thus far being in US stock which doesn't have the stability of a good P/E ratio being as new on the market as it is. It appears as if they've tipped their hand as to wanting cash to be a significantly larger portion of this deal, but the financial risks for Morgan Stanley and Citi' Group will undoubtedly go higher.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
Morgan Stanley has a reputation for making a lot of money, but at a lot of risk.

   Money could be made in this deal over the long term but it really is a big IF.

[Edited 2007-01-08 22:51:15]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5847 times:
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Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 4):
Morgan Stanley and Citibank aren't necessarily loaning out money; they are the underwriters for the debt offering to finance the deal; the institutional investors who purchase the debt are the ones loaning out the money.

I was trying to keep it simple. I know by personal experience that pretty much every industry is included in the aviation world, but I figure most aviations fans are not necessarily experts, or interested, in the details of debt financing for the same reason I don't expand on the use of Ethernet onboard the A380....

 tired   tired 



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2):
It doesn't mean very much other than US saying they're essentially planning on borrowing money from Morgan Stanley and Citibank to fund their merger plan if it happens.

Actually, it means two large institutions thing enough of their plan to risk $7.5Billion against it.

What US really needs is Boeing to come in. US has not officially committed to the 350X, DL is a Boeing customer with outstanding orders, and with Boeing capital involved, a "sweater" deal including good slots for 787s and additional 77Ls would really help.

Looking through their proposals, I don't see the US/DL merger as this horrible thing, but I believe they will be forced by the DOJ (or whoever) to divest assets in the Middle Atlantic. The current #1 and #2 merging would dominate that region.

The question is, who is up for those assets? AA could take over 1/2 of the shuttle operations. UA needs more presence in that market and Florida, and losing the US partnership would mean they need to make up slack. NW could use assets there but are in no position to do much.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
but I believe they will be forced by the DOJ (or whoever) to divest assets in the Middle Atlantic. The current #1 and #2 merging would dominate that region.

It would likely be substantial. The DOJ would likely force a combined US/DL to give up at least half if not more of their slots at LGA and DCA. The largest beneficiaries will undoubtedly be WN and B6. I think getting a second financial play like Morgan-Stanley behind this deal is assuming they could divest some of these slots for a great price as well as DL's MD-88/90 fleet. As for Boeing, I don't see them signing onto this buyout until they feel it is best for them in the long haul. Doug Parker is totally committed to taking the combined carrier Airbus. Perhaps not publicly, but Airbus helped him turn HP around in a big way quickly once he came on board in 1995, something he also started when he was at NW prior to that.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
Amen, and I can't wait for SLC's T2 to start sporting US Airways plane at the gate...

Airbus?



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7496 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

This indeed will help their case, but they still need more.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
What US really needs is Boeing to come in.

Absolutely. Boeing (pretty much) has the power to make or break the deal. If US could sway boeing to its side, then game over for DL. But if Boeing sides with DL, I would put my money on DL coming out alone.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):
As for Boeing, I don't see them signing onto this buyout until they feel it is best for them in the long haul.

Absolutely. Boeing has to gain some ground here, or they will fight it.

I don't buy the "allegiance to airbus from 12 years ago" argument. That's a stupid way to run a mega-company, when Airbus, Boeing and the rest are really not the same entities they were 12 years ago. They offer different aircraft (for the future), Airbus has become a different kind of company, Boeing ate up MD, etc.

If US were so Airbus positive, they would have said: we reaffirm our A350 orders in regard to this new A350X project.
Instead they said: we have paid back our money to Airbus and are free to make any choice we like...

If US can play the Airbus thing against Boeing, they, as I said, can get prime hold back slots for the 787, good deals on additional 77Ls, and preferential placement in line for the 737RS. Until then, they can continue taking new 738 and A320 aircraft (the fleets are big enough for both to coexist without issue) and ween off of the MD80s right away.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting Flight777 (Reply 6):
If US and DL were dating, I guess US doesn't understand N.O. means NO!!

If the Open Market was like dating, I'm sure a lot of companies would be in jail for rape... alas its not, and this great thing our country uses called Capitalism lets it happen.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Quoting Flight777 (Reply 6):
If US and DL were dating, I guess US doesn't understand N.O. means NO!!

Good one...



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):
Doug Parker is totally committed to taking the combined carrier Airbus.

There you go again. Trying to turn a supposition into a fact. Do you personally know Parker? Do you work for US? Are you a major Creditor? I suggest you learn how to use the phrase: "IN MY OPINION". When you started an earlier thread about DL at SLC, you made the following statement in Quotes "":

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 46):
We cant live like US will get their grimmy hands on DL. I for one refuse to even entertain the notion that this will happen. DL will come out alone and SLC will flourish. I refuse to let US and their crowd get me down anymore!!!

"Very much agreed! But again, lets not attract that crowd of cockroaches to this thread."

I suggest you follow that advice and stick to threads you know something about - and US Airways isn't one of them.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 17):
If the Open Market was like dating, I'm sure a lot of companies would be in jail for rape... alas its not, and this great thing our country uses called Capitalism lets it happen.

yes, efficient markets and allowing companies to fail and be bought out is the root of all evil...  Wink

a merger would be the best thing for the market and the consumer assuming that certain conditions were met.

as for no means no, the night is still young. US's just knocked on the door and offered some flowers. DL is playing cold, but lets see what happens when they go to the dance club and start shaking it for a while. A few drinks, DL sees how other girls look at US, he says all the right things...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4875 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5545 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
A few drinks, DL sees how other girls look at US

Ah...therein lies the salvation for DL, 'cause which 'other girls' are going to be looking at US? Big grin Sad truth is, most other girls (and probably even some boys) have looked at US and passed.....


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5529 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
as for no means no, the night is still young. US's just knocked on the door and offered some flowers. DL is playing cold, but lets see what happens when they go to the dance club and start shaking it for a while. A few drinks, DL sees how other girls look at US, he says all the right things... Wink

Good lord, I didn't need the visual. Interesting...the airline industry is susceptible to sex too? Where will the Freudian tendencies end?  eyebrow 



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7496 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5496 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
as for no means no, the night is still young. US's just knocked on the door and offered some flowers. DL is playing cold, but lets see what happens when they go to the dance club and start shaking it for a while. A few drinks, DL sees how other girls look at US, he says all the right things...

HAHAHA!!! Love the analogy Ikramerica. We come from the best area of the country, so people from SoCal are mostly jolly!!!

But the analogy seems to fit the situation. They are "doing the dance". It will just come down to the creditors. If im not mistaken, Boeing has a very large pull and could make or brake it.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
Amen, and I can't wait for SLC's T2 to start sporting US Airways plane at the gate...

I for one hope that day never comes. Given my past, very negative, experiences on HP, I will avoid the "new" DL at all costs. Anyway, the livery will not change. Don't forget that the new entity would remain DL regardless of the fact that US is doing the buying.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
25 AirFrnt : Banks are actually surprisingly good at getting cash on deals like this out shorter term. I do find it amusing how many people seem to think that Bet
26 NW748i : Well it certainly gets my attention. I think this will certainly have an impact on the general public's view. Thus far people like Oberstar have sat
27 Panamair : There will be no UA/CO if there is no DL/US - Kellner will conveniently lose Tilton's number the second a DL/US deal falls apart...
28 N908AW : Yay! Jump on the merger bandwagon...Everybody's doing it!
29 FlyPNS1 : The financial community has usually favored mergers in the industry for two reasons: 1) Banks make lots of money off of M&A activity. 2) For a long ti
30 TL8490 : Boeing will NEVER support this deal and here is why.... IF DL and US Merge the first thing they will do is reduce capacity....AKA Less Planes.....If D
31 Jlbmedia : To sum up what I see in a nutshell, US is making money and fortifying it's takeover position by continuing to bring on very impressive financial backe
32 SLCUT2777 : Actually John, I wouldn't put it past DL CFO Ed Bastian to be putting together a counter financial deal. He pointed out recently DL has had several c
33 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Well I could never figure out what to do with US and DL after mentally merging CO with UA and AA with NW. If US and DL can figure out somehow to make
34 HPRamper : It'll be more like an arranged marriage. Nobody cares if the daughter wants it or not. The parents made their agreement. In name only. US has in fact
35 OA412 : I realize all this but my post was in response to another poster saying that Terminal 2 in SLC will be overrun by US liveried aircraft which is clear
36 Ikramerica : And last call is hours away... Now it really comes down to whether the requisite number of goats can be delivered.
37 Post contains links and images SLCUT2777 : With all of the possible financial players coming into this who knows. Quite obviously DL is more attractive than what many realize and we get this:
38 AndrewUber : As much as I like Delta, this could very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. All the creditors can hear now is "Keep Delta My Bankrupt Del
39 SBN580 : Yes, I am afraid that would burst his bubble. I have already sent an email to Morgan Stanley opposing the merger and that I will take my business els
40 WorldTraveler : it only means MS wants in on the potential action. yes, US could raise the bid but if they do it will be undoubtedly be to add more debt - you don't n
41 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : All very important issues the proponents of this deal fail to adequately address.
42 DLPMMM : I think that if Mr. Parker manages to pull of the takeover of DL, he and his investors will be in for a rather nasty suprise. While his takeover is pr
43 Post contains links William : http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/news...cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA
44 Post contains images Miamix707 : Yeah sure, especially with all the other ones who are going to want to merge after this "to remain competitive". This persistence only shows corporat
45 MCOflyer : Agreed Agreed No US has just bugging DL hoping they'll accept the date, drink to a new airline, then get their pants wet and merge. I wonder what FAA
46 HPRamper : Interesting, perhaps they haven't yet changed that to match HP. I could fly after two weeks.
47 Ca2ohHP : You couldn't be more wrong. It's 15 days for US...NOT 6 months. 6 months is the new hire fleet probationary period.
48 Jfk777 : Usairways should forget Delta and buy Northwest. Dl and US have big operations to Europe and almost none to Asia, buying NW get US the big Asian netwo
49 MIAMIx707 : that's what this person told me, I have to be honest I don't know for sure. That's what would make more sense, I still wish no mergers would take pla
50 LAXdude1023 : I really dont think its about being a perfect fit as it is being about destroying the competition. NW would have made more sense, but I really dont t
51 Ca2ohHP : I'm just sorry they were misinformed. We actually have really good travel benefits...and they're fairly liberal for new hires.
52 Ca2ohHP : As long as consumers demand cheaper, better service...consolidation will happen, or those in BK will be forced to liquidate.
53 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : I really think that knowing the labor issues having worked at NW prior to HP, Doug Parker felt that it was something he just didn't want to deal with
54 SBN580 : The only sure thing consumers have demanded is cheaper. When service does not reach expectations, then they want better. The two are not necessarily
55 Ikramerica : Great. And this matters how? Ramper perks are of no concern to congress or the consumer.
56 EA CO AS : CO would be an ideal buyer for the US Shuttle operation - they already own the terminal at LGA. I have a feeling they'd want to peddle the Delta Shut
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