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Qantas Denies Cover-up Over Damaged Jet  
User currently offlineAnthonyspider From Australia, joined May 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15063 times:

"Qantas boss Geoff Dixon has denied a cover-up by the airline after a report that a packed passenger jet flew with a huge hole torn in its side."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=175879

112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15048 times:

VH-OJC, can tell you that it took 8 days for the plane to arrive back in Sydney.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15021 times:

That doesn't answer the Q Did it leave SIN and fly to FRA with a hole... or didn't it? And how did it ferry back to SYD?

User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 2):
That doesn't answer the Q Did it leave SIN and fly to FRA with a hole... or didn't it? And how did it ferry back to SYD?

read the artcile properly..

"Perth businessman Karl Dunbar said he could have crawled through the hole, which was the size of two refrigerators, that he saw in the jet at Frankfurt."

yes it did fly to Frankfurt. flew home 8 days later.

whats of interest is the ATSB has no investigation report at all regarding the matter...

[Edited 2007-01-09 11:57:17]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14971 times:

Are there cameras all over the jet showing in the cockpit? If not, and the pilots couldn't tell there was a tear in the fuselage near the gear, what are they supposed to do? They landed, the hole was discovered, and the jet didn't fly again.

The whole story seems to hinge on a Perth businessman who claims QF is covering something up. This man is who and why does that statement mean anything?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4007 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14941 times:

Sounds like a non story to me.
If a tyre lost its tread on take off, and damaged the fibreglass wing body fairing, there could easily be no indication to the crew, and no safety implications. There would be a slight fuel consumption increase, but thats about it. The damage would like really bad, but not damgerous.
It would take time to fix as no one holds spare fairings, it would come from Seattle and it is huge. Would need a freighter to carry it.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14930 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 5):
Sounds like a non story to me.

Exactly. So is it a cover up that QF didn't call the media and say: "look at our plane. put it on the news and don't explain that to the public that it was cosmetic damage, albeit it nasty looking cosmetic damage."

What business pursues the press for negative press? Only a TV station would think that was the right course of action...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9376 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14919 times:

What mnakes me wonder is how that Perth businessman detected that hole in the aircraft. The flight arrives here between 5 and 6 am and passengers usually disembark through a jetway at T2.


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14785 times:

ahhh...it did occur and the plane did sit on the ground in Frankfurt for 8 days or so being repaired.

http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic....hp?t=15524&highlight=qf6+frankfurt



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9098 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14720 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 5):

If a tyre lost its tread on take off, and damaged the fibreglass wing body fairing, there could easily be no indication to the crew, and no safety implications. There would be a slight fuel consumption increase, but thats about it.

On a pprune thread at the time this was posted :

Quote:
Apparently a Qantas -400 suffered a tyre failure during the take-off roll at Singapore on the 9th MAR. Cabin crew noticed the vibration & loud "bang" prior to rotation. 15mins after the event the cabin crew managed to notify the cockpit crew. S/O dispatched to the offending area. No further follow-up action sought from the Skipper. Aircarft continues to Frankfurt. Half way into flight, hydraulic leak detected. Aircraft lands with blown tyre. Damage to Port Leading, Trailing edge and aircraft fueslage. One 3m gash(As big as 2 Fridges)to the fueslage with some ribs missing. Aircraft was swiftly moved to a remote bay. Just wondering, was this well handled?



That photo popped up on pprune when this happened on a previous event.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineCroCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14552 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 3):
whats of interest is the ATSB has no investigation report at all regarding the matter...

Why would they care? If it doesn't involve US aviation does it matter to the ATSB?


User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14507 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
The whole story seems to hinge on a Perth businessman

Why would he make it up?

Quoting Zeke (Reply 9):
On a pprune thread at the time this was posted :

Quote:
Apparently a Qantas -400 suffered a tyre failure during the take-off roll at Singapore on the 9th MAR. Cabin crew noticed the vibration & loud "bang" prior to rotation. 15mins after the event the cabin crew managed to notify the cockpit crew. S/O dispatched to the offending area. No further follow-up action sought from the Skipper. Aircarft continues to Frankfurt. Half way into flight, hydraulic leak detected. Aircraft lands with blown tyre. Damage to Port Leading, Trailing edge and aircraft fueslage. One 3m gash(As big as 2 Fridges)to the fueslage with some ribs missing. Aircraft was swiftly moved to a remote bay. Just wondering, was this well handled?

Was it a cover up because it occurred, no. Was it a cover up because the aircraft continued to FRA after something was up immediately departing SIN and at least some crew were evidently aware that something was amiss yet the aircraft didn't do the prudent thing and return to SIN, potentially yes. If this is true, surely some embarrassment for QF of the way this was handled in my view.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12545 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14420 times:

Quoting CroCop (Reply 10):
Why would they care? If it doesn't involve US aviation does it matter to the ATSB?

ATSB = Australian Transport Safety Bureau, and of course, QF is an Austrailian airlne, so they do care.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14342 times:
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Why would Qantas risk its vaulted reputation on operating a 13 hour flight over many third world countries with inferior facilities at those in Singapore Changi. Returning seemed the prudent thing to do, having to land in Pakistan or Russia seems a highly unappetizing prospect.

User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 14186 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
What mnakes me wonder is how that Perth businessman detected that hole in the aircraft. The flight arrives here between 5 and 6 am and passengers usually disembark through a jetway at T2.

I bet that he, as well as most of the passengers, heard the bang and wondered what it was. Upon landing and de-planing, maybe there was a little suspicious buzz over the newly discovered damage that caught his attention so maybe he made an effort to find a window to see the plane for himself. I know it is often difficult to get a view of the plane at many airports...

Quoting Zeke (Reply 9):
Half way into flight, hydraulic leak detected.

Not being a pilot, I am not sure at what decibel level a "loud bang" warrants turning the aircraft around but certainally a hydraulic leak should be reason to land the plane, am I wrong? I am surprised they continued to FRA?


User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14038 times:
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Remember, a "bang!" is not unnecessarily a bad thing ... yes it's a cause for concern. But when you're airborne, you can't get out and do a walkaround - you have to rely on your instrumentation.

If the instrumentation doesn't say something's broke, you have no way to know if something's broke.

Apparently, it wasn't until the hydraulic leak was detected that they realized something was wrong. The procedures for dealing with a hydraulic leak may well say you can keep going, apparently in this case as far as the original destination.

It costs $$$ to stop short, after all ... so if you can safely keep going , there's no reason not to. Provided doing so is within procedures, regulations, etc.

Now, mind you, had they turned the flight around and sent it back to Australia with the hole unfixed, that would be a different story.

- litz


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13848 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Why would Qantas risk its vaulted reputation on operating a 13 hour flight over many third world countries with inferior facilities at those in Singapore Changi. Returning seemed the prudent thing to do, having to land in Pakistan or Russia seems a highly unappetizing prospect.

And why do you think that so-called Third World countries, more respectfully referred to as 'Developing countries' do not have the facilities to repair an aircraft? And how would it affect QF's "vaulted" reputation to land there in an emergency...? Don't really understand what you are trying to say.....

[Edited 2007-01-09 18:06:25]

[Edited 2007-01-09 18:07:12]

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9376 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13766 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 14):
I bet that he, as well as most of the passengers, heard the bang and wondered what it was. Upon landing and de-planing, maybe there was a little suspicious buzz over the newly discovered damage that caught his attention so maybe he made an effort to find a window to see the plane for himself. I know it is often difficult to get a view of the plane at many airports

That is what I meant, if the flight had a gate position (and I've been on QF 5 several times myaself and always deplaned through a jetway, he could not have seen the damage,

Different story if it was an remote stand and passenegers were bused to the terminal.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4830 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13729 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 16):
And why do you think that so-called Third World countries, more respectfully referred to as 'Developing countries' do not have the facilities to repair an aircraft? And how would it affect QF's "vaulted" reputation to land there in an emergency...? Don't really understand what you are trying to say.....

have you seen accident rates in 'developing countries' compared to 'developed countries'? Sure a lot of them are due to ATC/pilots, but a lot of them are due to planes breaking in one way or another/faults etc... Some 'developing countries' have good work practices regarding aircraft mx... many do not!
As for landing in these countries, whilst safety is the highest priority, there is also the issue of what to do with the pax... no visas, hotels, transport, no arranged ground handling, refueling, let alone organising a repairer. They don't know how long they will be there, would take a long time to get a replacement aircraft and crew up there. If the crew don't know that its reasonably serious then the logical course of action is to either continue on or turn back, not to put down in some Third World Country/'Developing Country'



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13646 times:

Sounds to me like everything was done by the book. Just some idiotic business man looking for a story and possibly a little cash. Daft tw**

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13494 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 11):
Why would he make it up?

Not that he made up the incident.

That he is an authority on what is being "covered up" and such.

HE'S the person who said it was "two refrigerators" and he is not an expert. Eye witnesses who are irate like to exaggerate for effect.

Sounds like they did the procedure correctly. They heard a noise, they checked all systems, they visually inspected from the inside, they monitored things during flight, they found a leak and determined it would not threaten the mission, and when they landed, they took the jet out of service.

I guess the only thing they could have done differently was to circle the airport and have a ground personal with binocculars and do a visual inspection, but that may be hard on a heavily loaded 744.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineQantasA380 From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12837 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 11):
Was it a cover up because it occurred, no. Was it a cover up because the aircraft continued to FRA after something was up immediately departing SIN and at least some crew were evidently aware that something was amiss yet the aircraft didn't do the prudent thing and return to SIN, potentially yes. If this is true, surely some embarrassment for QF of the way this was handled in my view.

Just because the cabin crew hear a "loud bang" on take-off, that doesn't mean that an aircraft needs to return to origin for a forced landing. If the cabin crew tell the flight crew, but the flight crew have no warnings, cautions or other indication of an actual problem with the aircraft, why would they turn it around??

As for the hydraulic leak, just because the media says it was "half way into the flight" doesn't mean it was exactly half way - if it was even 100nm on the German side of half way when they noticed the leak, then the sensible thing is to look for an alternate airport ahead of the aircraft. Given the area where halfway on QF5B falls, the nearest appropriate alternate would be either way north of track in Russia, or in the very East of Europe, in which case why not fly the extra hour to your intended destination if it won't harm the aircraft or anyone on board?? At least then you have your airline's own people to take care of things, your passengers get where they want to be, you don't stuff up the crew schedules, you have other airlines with the technical expertise to work on your aircraft, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, they did everything by the book - they conducted their own investigation, and they notified the relevant authorities. So what if they didn't immediately notify the media, where is it written that an airline must notify the media of all incidents?



Virgin Blue - what colour's RED????
User currently onlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3305 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12713 times:
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Quoting CroCop (Reply 10):
Why would they care? If it doesn't involve US aviation does it matter to the ATSB?

The United States' safety board is the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board). The ATSB is the Australian Transportation Safety Board.

How could a hole that big only result in a small enough increse in fuel consumption that the aircraft made it all the way to FRA from SIN? It seems like the drag from that would be significant, and I'd imagine, though I admittedly don't know much about this, that the sheer speed and force of the wind would be a risk of more metal skin ripping off, no?

TIS



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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12627 times:

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 21):
So what if they didn't immediately notify the media, where is it written that an airline must notify the media of all incidents?

Exactly. Media calls everything a cover up if they weren't contacted. I asked before, what smart business contacts the media about a non-event just to foment bad press due to poor or sensationalist reporting?

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 22):
How could a hole that big only result in a small enough increse in fuel consumption that the aircraft made it all the way to FRA from SIN?

Again, the passenger is the one who said it was that big...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11928 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Exactly. Media calls everything a cover up if they weren't contacted. I asked before, what smart business contacts the media about a non-event just to foment bad press due to poor or sensationalist reporting?

i think you'll find the anomaly is that the ATSB has NOT investigated the matter in a satisfactory manner, they have no incident report/findings of any nature into the matter, that seems rather strange considering the plane sat at Frankfurt for 8 days being repaired. this type of occurence would see a report on the ATSB site.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
25 Ikramerica : when dealing with government agencies, my first thought is a paperwork snafu, not a coverup. it may well turn out to be one, but let's let the dust s
26 RedChili : I really don't understand why they should make a detour to Russia since the flight passes over countries where a 747 is much more common. How do you
27 QANTAS077 : the dust settled 10 months ago...how long do they need to start an investigation?
28 Ikramerica : did it? the media is saying there's a cover up. I said my first instinct is that it's a paperwork snafu, and since this part of the story is just now
29 Gearup : Sounds like a storm in a tea cup. This does happen from time to time although it is rare. The number of airframe losses due to failed tyres is very sm
30 Gr8Circle : I'm sorry, but in an emergency, the pilot would not sit thinking about the repurcussions of landng in a developing country v/s a developed country, o
31 Electech6299 : Not to mention quite a few ways of seeing what's NOT broke, which is rather more significant... Where is your inside information that the ATSB never
32 Post contains images Jasond : If my car made a loud bang when leaving the driveway I would be returning it to the driveaway as soon as possible, warnings or not. At the end of the
33 NAV20 : We very possibly would have been, Jasond, under a heading like, "Qantas Pilot Panics - Delays Passengers For No Reason." Probably kicked off with a p
34 Post contains links QANTAS077 : do you see me saying coverup? the ATSB investigate far less significant aviation issues in this country, just find it suprising that NOTHING has come
35 JetMech : The 747 has four independent hydraulic systems, so a leak in any one of them would not really be an emergency. If you lost two systems, the aircraft
36 Rwylie77 : I think this is much less of a drama than BA continuing their 744 back to LHR after losing an engine...
37 Post contains links Electech6299 : That would not be a safe assumption. See this link: http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/procedures.aspx This was a non-event, not worth an investigation.
38 Post contains images Jbernie : First post so go easy Something to think about before being too critical of Qantas and the ATSB is the source of the report. To be fair I haven't live
39 David27 : Sounds like a storm in a tea cup.
40 Post contains images Electech6299 : Sounds like a storm in a tea cup. Is there an echo in here?
41 QantasA380 : Exactly!! Your car is far less capable than a 747 of telling you that the bang means there is definitely something wrong. The loud bang could have be
42 Post contains images Jasond : And that is a fair comment but that is fairly easy to say in hindsight (being the wonderful thing that it is). To play devil's advocate here though f
43 Gammagirl : From what I recall, it was a 'seven exclusive' run as the first story on the evening news and went for a couple of minutes,It also included comments
44 Mohavewolfpup : there was the incident a while back involving the jetblue? craft I believe it was with the front wheel that had failed and was turned side ways. I wa
45 Electech6299 : My understanding (pls correct me if I'm wrong) is that the damage occurred to the fairings (shaped fiberglass trim) along the connection between the
46 TheJoe : As JetMech said, the damaged part of the aircraft was only an aerodynamic fairing made of fibre glass. The panels are only really designed to deal wi
47 Post contains links Zeke : The ATSB just released a media release about this incident http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/2007/release/2007_1.aspx
48 Jasond : Fair use extract: "After further review of the circumstances of the tyre burst, the ATSB agrees with the Singapore authorities that a major investigat
49 Monteycarlos : Except for an EICAS warning showing a blown tire, or a tyre pressure of "0". I would expect that any of the cabin/flight crew I roster would consider
50 Post contains images NAV20 : Respect in return, Jasond. But it wasn't an 'instant' decision, and it wasn't a 'crew' decision; it was a command decision by the captain. He presuma
51 Post contains images Electech6299 : I would consider potential depressurization a significant flight risk. Fortunately that wasn't the case. I rest my case. I commend you, NAV20- you ma
52 Post contains images Jasond : Actually because I am inherently lazy, more likely I would have driven it home and called a mobile mechanic I guess without appearing to labour the p
53 Monteycarlos : Does your car have an EICAS?
54 Electech6299 : Not as such, just a MIL and a few gauges...
55 Post contains links Legs : Latest development: "Federal Transport Minister Mark Vaile has decided to reopen the case. "I've asked for a full report from the regulatory authoriti
56 JetMech : QANTAS 744's have a Tire Pressure Indication System (TPIS) fitted, but not all airlines do as it is optional equipment. As has been mentioned before,
57 Jasond : In this case you would have found the explanation, a gaping great hole in the side of the aircraft!!!
58 TheJoe : That was the point I was trying to get across as well. Even if somehow the pressure vessel was punctured during the take off run, the aircraft would
59 Post contains images Electech6299 : Yes, we agree; my post was not written very clearly. I was responding to a previous post- But since we agree that the potential for depressurization
60 Electech6299 : The parallel to NAV20's comparison is not to pull the 744 "back in the driveway", it is to run checklists and observe any abnormalities. A blown tire
61 Jasond : Yes but they didn't know that at the time. What is worth talking about is not what did happen with the benefit of hindsight but rather what could hav
62 Electech6299 : So correct me if I'm not hearing this right- you are saying that regardless of how correct the pilot and airline's actions were, and regardless of th
63 TheJoe : Is there any question to ask? The pilotd decided to continue the take off. After V1, continue regardless and deal with it in the air. No warning = co
64 Jasond : You are not hearing me right. I am specifically talking about the decision to continue to FRA because that is what most people are concerned about. T
65 Electech6299 : Would this be the same "many people" who think the hole in the fairing is significant, when aviation experts know it isn't? You have yet to explain t
66 JetMech : I have to say that I completely agree with Electech6299. What they did know at the time was that there was a loud bang. What they also knew at the ti
67 Monteycarlos : Let me tell you all here and now, it is not a SOP to depart an aerodrome with the possibility of a damaged aircraft no matter what kind of damage. The
68 TheJoe : Do you know how often that happens? I've lost track of how many times I've been called to an aircraft after a "loud bang" has been reported only to f
69 Electech6299 : I suggest you walk out of your office and down to the ramp (if you do in fact work in operations) and ask the pilots or mx crew what's on the MEL for
70 Jasond : I don't believe I was doing any such thing, I might be many things but certainly not insulting or derogatory. again, where have I done this??? I thin
71 Post contains images Electech6299 : OK, sorry- I was out of line. time for a cold shower. I admit I can become quite disturbed when the actions of professional pilots- on here or in the
72 TristarSteve : I said lost its tread on purpose. All aircraft tyres are remoulds. It happens that the tread can come off the carcass, and the carcass will stay infl
73 Jasond : I did no such thing, in fact I have acknowledged several times during this discussion that their decision was the correct one in this specific case a
74 Post contains images Gr8Circle : So, you're saying that if a QF flight experienced an emergency over a developing country in the Middle East or South Asia, the captain would prefer t
75 Jasond : The issue was about returning to SIN after take off, not about aborting the take off.
76 Zeke : That is not true, they have diverted enroute before in the interests of safety. IMHO they did the correct course of action in this situation.
77 Electech6299 : I still find your rationale mind-boggling- so now the pilots should base their decisions on "public perception" and the potential for negative press,
78 Post contains images Gr8Circle : I'm sure QF pilots and management think rationally, but some members on this forum have different thoughts.....
79 Post contains images Jasond : agreed
80 Jasond : I would agree with that in this case. I welcome another look at this. Further as far as the media is concerned when things go bad in this industry we
81 Post contains links and images Electech6299 : See these links. http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/notification/reporting/index.aspx http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/procedures.aspx The first link det
82 QANTAS077 : ^ why do you give a hoot? you don't live here? it's not your national carrier...just so you know, ATSB was responsible for the investigation into the
83 Jasond : Well hardly settled in the context that a further review has been ordered by the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia regardless of what we, the 'armch
84 Electech6299 : And once again the issue of whether or not a 3-meter hole in a fairing constitutes a safety risk. What part of "non-essential piece of fibergalss" is
85 Jasond : What I am most interested in above all else is the decision making process that led to the command decision to proceed to FRA. My assertion that the
86 NAV20 : Jasond, even the word 'loud' appears to be a journalistic, rather than a factual, contribution. Since the flight crew didn't hear it, and the cabin cr
87 Jasond : I was merely quoting how the noise was described for the want of a better description, but point taken nonetheless, I guess we will never know howeve
88 Gemuser : You can NOT KNOW this! You may be right, you may be wrong. Aircraft are flown ALL the time with "damage" everywhere in the world. "Damage" comes in v
89 Electech6299 : OK, so lets move on. Now that the press has hold of this issue and is wagging the dog by the tail, what can be done to assure the public that this "te
90 Post contains images NAV20 : Jasond, I think we have to face the fact that this story amounted to a 'free hit' for the journalist concerned. Once he/she heard about the incident,
91 Electech6299 : Actually, that's not entirely correct. According to this post, the aircraft was ferried back to SYD for the fairing replacement after mechanical work
92 Electech6299 : Perhaps I have been unfair in my criticism- that is indeed the crux of the story, and if the Captain didn't do the appropriate checks then that's a p
93 Jetfuel : The REAL issue here is that many are worried that the buyout of QF will only hasten more "safety" issues with the airline. That's one of the reasons t
94 Jasond : So lets imagine for a moment that this particular aircraft was fitted with an external camera system, not so fanciful as we are seeing more aircraft
95 Jasond : That's way I said 'could have been', I will never know. That said I will accept your other points:
96 Post contains images QANTAS077 : the damage...
97 Jetfuel : ouch....................................................
98 HAWK21M : Looks bad but in the Non pressurised zone. regds MEL
99 TristarSteve : Wonder how many rolls of speedtape it took to do a temp repair?
100 Gemuser : Oops! I missed that bit! Actually given what Electech6299 said in Reply 91, I don't belive they would have. The plane was flown back to SYD with the
101 Post contains images Jasond : err, the incident flight had a full load of paying pax, the ferry flight didn't. sorry, I didn't really understand this bit, if they had camera's tha
102 TheJoe : Jasond, I think you've missed the point here. This "incident" is routine in the world of aviation. It was an event that could not be avoided. The airc
103 Jasond : Routine perhaps to those who work in the industry but not to those who don't and it is those people (looking at your profile) that you can thank for
104 TheJoe : No worries then. Well I can assure you it does.
105 QFFlyer : I am interested in the qualifications and knowledge of what happened on that flight, you have in order to pass these judgements. [Emphasis mine] Did
106 JetMech : What about Japan Airlines?
107 Post contains images CroCop : Man, I was thinking ATSB-Air Transportation Stabilization Board, my bad, thanks for at least being cool with your response.
108 Post contains images NAV20 : It would actually have made a better story if the captain HAD turned back. 1. I don't know what fuel-dumping capability the 747 has, but he'd almost c
109 RedChili : Probably not. The flight left at around midnight, and the sky is not that crowded between midnight and, say, 2-3 AM. Not really a problem at 2 AM. Th
110 TheJoe : He made the correct decision with the information available to him at the time. I dont think there is any way to argue that point. There is no need t
111 RedChili : I only replied to NAV20's "what if's" in reply 108. I find it strange that you think he "summed it up perfectly" with his what if's, but my what if's
112 TheJoe : You raise a good point, but his "what if" questions are based on fact. The aircraft was serviceable according to cockpit indications. That's why they
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