Bicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11187 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 1): I'm sure that AA and UA will be thrilled about this one...watch how fast their fares drop in response...
After the promotional introductory fares of $99 plus taxes/fees, JetBlue will charge one way fares of $159 to $399. These fares are in line with fares you can already get on UA and AA. Looking at JetBlue's recent financials, they should be charging more to cover their high costs.
United777atGU From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11180 times:
It's not going to be easy, believe me. UA and AA have been three-classing this route forever. UA's P.S. service is top notch on the JFK-SFO run--great in F and C. If anything, they'll (UA/AA) make sure they continue to offer great service in Y as well so as to compete with JB. I think this will make UA think about offering P.S. into BOS--remember when they were toying with the idea of expanding P.S? Timing is everything.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11094 times:
Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5): JetBlue will charge one way fares of $159 to $399. These fares are in line with fares you can already get on UA and AA.
Wow....I'm surprised...$159 as the lowest fare isn't absurd at all. Okay, scratch my earlier comment. AA and UA are probably doing happy dances that they won't have to offer ridiculously low fares after all.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8370 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11072 times:
WOW, I never expected this to happen. Is LAX next ? ITS one thing for JB to fly to the peripheral LA and SAN Francisco area airports but SFO & LAX are the belly of the beast. UA and AA will guard their market like tigers and can offer 3 class servcie while JB's product is great its only one class.
Lowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10996 times:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the premium services on UAL/AA are not free are they? I think Jetblue will be selling a form of premium service at coach prices. Will they attract a few flyers from the premium programs on those airlines???....I know Jetblue is pushing for corporate accounts and they will probably get their share....but Jetblue will also p/u quite a few coach seats from those airlines where the customer wants a quasi business class seat at coach prices.
Lowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10975 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9): WOW, I never expected this to happen. Is LAX next ?
Yeah, LAX is next. Terminal 5 is under seige from the airport authority and if they get their way DL will be reassigned a commensurate number of gates that fall in line with their 45-50 flts per day. I see Jetblue in there at some pt during 2007.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10920 times:
I am glad to see more service to SFO. B6 will do well, IMO, at SFO. However it's not only AA, UA, and DL who might see it's impact - B6 could very well cannibalize some of their own traffic from OAK and SJC.
EmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10857 times:
Correct me if I'm wrong but early on I thought Neeleman had serious reservations against pulling into SFO because its delay prone. I guess when you are trying to establish your own marketshare in Cali then it probably doesnt matter anyway. However I'm pretty sure he was negitive about SFO. Of course ... I cannot find the articles now ...
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10764 times:
Quoting Lowecur (Reply 10): Correct me if I'm wrong, but the premium services on UAL/AA are not free are they?
Is anything free in aviation? In the case of UA the PS service offers a minimal coach cabin and has a tremendous product in the F and C classes of the 757's doing the PS flights I don't think you will see a large migration of UA traffic to JetWho. The travelers on these flights are those that could be in bizjets if need be and are probably not too enthralled with riding in an Airbus across the country just to watch live TV with someone else sitting directly next to them in a wife beater t-shirt.
With the wx and flow delays at SFO I think you also might see a few more fuel stops on these flights. The 320 is definitely not optimal for this routing in a high density 150 seat JB configuration. A 319 can do transcons with fuel to spare but the 20 is not so inclined to make it in strong winds.
Here is what I think the biggest hurdle for JB will be at SFO. B6 has limited connection abilities. While you can connect only at JFK on B6 you might lose a good bit of traffic that is unwilling to fly to JFK to get to FLL, IAH etc. At SFO you lose with no transfers/connections to Asian flights.
This appears to be Neelman grasping at straws to try and find a niche. With service to OAK he will be cannibalizing some of the traffic he already has. These moves by B6 are very similar to the moves made by FLYI in the dying days.
B6 said they were filling gaps over the next few years. DTW could be argued for filling one gap, but it's no ORD or SFO. I think people expected B6 to "fill the gaps" by starting E-190 service all over the Midwest and Northeast, when B6's idea of filling the gaps is starting service to major cities.
Just a thought, but it seems to be what is happening. While smaller cities cannot be avoided, did they just start to HPN?, it's the major markets they seem to be focused on at this point.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10415 times:
Quoting United777atGU (Reply 6): If anything, they'll (UA/AA) make sure they continue to offer great service in Y as well so as to compete with JB. I think this will make UA think about offering P.S. into BOS--remember when they were toying with the idea of expanding P.S? Timing is everything.
Y class on UA is now "buy on board" So what GREAT service are you talking about? Also does AA even feed you at all if not in the front of the plane?
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15): Now they just have to cover that third South Florida airport...
Legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10381 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 18): Personally, I think this has much more to do with Virgin America than either American or United.
Of corse it does. Virgin has until tomorrow to present to the DOT a revised ownership structure in order to receive its' certificate. I am sure VA had a "plan B" if the DOT refused to grant the cert.
It will be interesting once VA gets their cert and the battle which will insue between the legacies and B6 and VA. I am sure VA will do everthing it can to get into the air and get name recognician before B6 starts service in May.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39879 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10308 times:
Quoting United777atGU (Reply 6): It's not going to be easy, believe me. UA and AA have been three-classing this route forever. UA's P.S. service is top notch on the JFK-SFO run--great in F and C. If anything, they'll (UA/AA) make sure they continue to offer great service in Y as well so as to compete with JB. I think this will make UA think about offering P.S. into BOS--remember when they were toying with the idea of expanding P.S? Timing is everything.
I agree, I've flown the United P.S. SFO-JFK before and the service was great. However, the P.S. had nothing to do with my ticket purchase. Most people are going to go with the lowest fare that works with there schedule.
I am not a fan of JetBlue but I am glad to see another carrier come here to SFO.
Bring back the Concorde
: The P.S. is designed more for the premium folk. B6 and P.S. are very different markets - P.S. (and AA's Flagship service) is geared for the people tha
: I very much doubt that UA or AA are overly concerned about this development by JetBlue. If however they decided to put lie flat seats in and offer a s
: All very good pts, but Neeleman could have other ideas. They are in the middle of negotiations with international carriers at JFK, and if my assumpti
: Something not yet mentioned... I wonder what F9 thinks of all this. (my impression is that they had some modest expansion plans at SFO of their own) -
: Have you ever flown business class? A JetBlue seat...or any coach seat....isn't anywhere close to business class. ....and JFK isn't?
: I'm just quoting Neelman. Calm down.
: This is too cool! Welcome to SFO B6, we're happy to have you. Hope we can accommodate you at the new international terminal.
: I can't afford it, but I always thought business class was a 1st Class seat without the extras. It sounds great for obese people that would normally
: JBU 9410, an A320, is leaving LGB bound for SFO. ETD 1000am ETA 1110am Thanks to flightaware.com, it was just added.
: Uh...you mean like the LAWYER who was sitting next to me on my B6 flight to OAK, the lawyer who could have flown any airline but chose to fly B6? And
: That was absolutely my first thought as well. Virgin America's first route was planned to be SFO-JFK. That plan doesn't look quite so good with JetBl
: My guess is Sir Richard has probably had some preliminary discussions with Jetblue about a partnership if the Virgin America deal fell through. Since
: I'm not sure this is a good idea - SFO is a more difficult operational environment, and except for San Mateo county and perhaps the western parts of S
: I agree with the thought that this has more to do with a pre-emptive strike against Virgin America than the legacies. VA is promising to be a low cost
: I hope they are the carrier to finally start SFO-FLL. That would be great. -Copa
: They already fly FLL-OAK. I doubt you'll see FLL-SFO unless they swap the flight to SFO.
: I never thought of this, however this would be great to see. Imagine B6 becoming the interior feed for a few foreign airlines.
: Hmmm...will they be as successful as America West on these flights?
: I don't consider lawyers to be the elite. Perhaps financialy a few are wealthy but your average flunky lawyer is not going to be riding a biz jet. Th
: Nobody said they were. The guy compared the oh-so-refined people who allegedly fly PS to the wifebeater-wearers who allegedly fly B6. I made the poin
: I'm shocked and don't think this is a smart move by B6. To say the least, I think they will have UA, AA AND DL on them quicker than baggage carts on a
: What type of food? Overcooked and dehydrated beef or chicken? At least B6 gives you an option of snacks: Blue Chips, Munchie Mix, Animal Crackers, Co
: First, welcome to a.net, BayAreaBlue. You might want to look at the Trip Reports section of this site for member experiences on the UA and AA transco
: If your argument was valid then F and C class would not exist. There are enough people willing to pay a premium for a better comfort level in travel
: A problem at SFO that was not mentioned is their high landing fees. One of the reasons WN left SFO, in addition to the delays, was the hike in landing
: You fly Jetblue for the snacks? Must be joking. By the way some of those contain either preservatives or transfats. Back to the subject, why take the
: Could this also be a way for B6 to expand their west coast ops? OAK has very little room to grow and WN almost owns all the west coast ops from their.
: Perhaps it's the bridge and tunnel crowd effect in reverse. Maybe so many people were crossing the Bay from the City and Peninsula, they decided to g
: I have to say that I'm very surprised by this move. I never saw it coming, but now that it's announced and the schedules are out, a few things come to
: Actually, JetBlue is now trans-fat free.
: It seems to me that B6 is bound and determined to go into airports that can throw its schedule for a loop. ORD is running nearly 1:45 behind due to wi
: Well, I would not say JFK-LGB was "hardly affected." In Q2 of 2005, JFK-LGB and JFK saw nearly identical (within 1%) average daily passenger counts.
: As you said, the reason for this fall was due to higher fares and/or competition. I'm sure BUR did pull some traffic from LGB, but the average fare b
: A lot of people are, but that's because they actually believe B6 is an LCC. They are not low cost to operate anymore, and they do not offer low fares
: When I said "higher fares and/or competition," I was also referring to B6's own JFK-BUR service. JFK-BUR service did have an effect on JFK-LGB traffi
: P.S. and Flagship in Y have both been downgraded from their peaks. Coach on both is no different from coach on any other UA or AA longhaul--buy on bo
: I remember reading an interview with David Neelman years back about Virgin America and he was going through all the reasons SFO makes no sense for any
: How many mainline/overall flights are UA operating out of SFO at this time?
: I am glad you admit it. Ok, so now in your eyes its ok. I guess you did not read this part of what I posted: Arrogant hearted? Did you even read what
: Given that SQ is known for its premium traffic and service, partnering with B6 doesn't make a lot of sense. While I enjoy B6's service, it isn't cate
: From Virgin America Passes FAA 'Proving Runs' With Flying Colors And there's a reason I included OAK in the comparison; B6's JFK-OAK fares increased
: SFO is around 145 mainline departures (and 256 total) while IAD is around 100 mainline departures (and 296 total).
: My bad . . . well . . . maybe now they'll look at EWR
: I don't see how BUR had any significant impact on ONT. The markets there don't have much overlap. ONT caters more to the Inland Empire while BUR cate
: What a weird site to depart SFO today at 1125a and see JetBlue and Virgin America both there. ASLAX
: I really bet that Virg-A application starts up again. However, if B6 (or other LCC's) are able to drive down yields at SFO (as a consequence of their
: Would B6 ever consider LAX or is that no-go territory?
: Remember that ATA started EWR-SFO continuing on to HNL and got the stuffing beat out of them. We would suffer the same fate. CO didn't take too well t
: believe it or not, short term I agree. But once B6 has a presence at SFO... and they already have some customers at EWR... They should connect the do
: The entire Peninsula down to San Jose, San Francisco, and Marin County. To get to OAK from the west side of the Bay, you have to either cross a bridg
: ...would be in those bizjets... ...and those same said people probably wouldn't be too enthralled with riding in a ratty old 757 (however refurbished
: Nothing can compare with UA's Premium service though. AA will be affected to a much higher extent.
: Before this news regarding B6 at SFO I would say no to LAX. Now that B6 is starting service at SFO, I would say LAX is a possibility in the near futu
: I agree. Unless some revolution occurs at ONT, LAX is probably going to be where it's at. I wouldn't have said something like that yesterday, but thi
: Great news. I've flown SFO-JFK round trip at least twice a year for the last 15 years on UA and AA, and I will be switching to B6 permanently. The leg
: I think B6 will do very well SFO-East Coast. The plane loads go out well from OAK to JFK especially in the summers/fall & holidays. UA & AA may offer
: I'm not sure if JetBlue wants to get into a fare war with United, American, and Delta on the route between SFO and JFK. JetBlue can offer its excellen
: I agree completely except for the Flight Attendant thing. I can tell you that I would take B6 over any other just for the fact that they have LiveTV
: American Airlines doesn't consider JFK-SFO the market it used to be, and they won't unleash the war they would have a few years ago, IMO. Unlike alte
: I seriously doubt it's grasping at straws. Rather, it is a necessary move. If VA takes flight out of SFO, B6 suddenly becomes a secondary option for
: Personally, I think AA will do just fine against B6 SFO-JFK. They still have a decent loyalty in both NYC and the Bay Area. I still think B6 will be
: Thanks for saying this much better and more concisely than I did.
: WN spends lots and lots of money to push the "culture" into the outstations, and on screening applicants with personality tests, in a huge effort to
: I have very good friends who work for B6 in the Bay Area, and the reason they went to SFO is due to the fact that OAK has zero gate space. Not to ment
: FYI, My company books people on JetBlue for corporate travel, and all of the people I've talked to prefer JetBlue over Delta/United etc on transcons..
: Wow, AA quickly dropped their fares starting May 3 to 198 r/t. Let's see how the fare wars go now.
: I would agree with you that AA has strong loyalty in New York, but I'm not so sure about on the SF end--that's mostly a United stronghold, and AA has
: i'm actually pretty excited about the new SFO routes! i honestly think it'll just be a replay of what LGB and BUR were. SFO will of course take some t
: AA is still the 2nd largest airline out of SFO, so I'd say they have a big loyal following.
: Well if they dont want to travel in F & C, thats cool but a lot of people do and will pay good maney for it, which is where UA and AA will make their
: Frequent Flyer Miles!!! Everybody's forgetting that the most (?) present AA, UA, DL customers live for the miles, and would not fly another airline, u
: UA is improving the dining experience on PS even more! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070110/cgw036.html?.v=83
: Yes. In addition they do still have a decent loyalty in the Silicon Valley. UA is definitely king (I think SF Bay is their largest concentration of 1
: I generally agree with your statement as SFO is not breaking any new ground for JetBlue. However, it will maintain their presence on the SFO/OAK-NYC/
: When two friends leave JFK at nearly the same time and one has to stop for fuel or arrives significantly later than the other they will compare notes
: No profits. There is actually a large population in the area but the business centers and wealthier travelers are much closer to LAX, BUR and LGB. LA
: JetBlue's tech stops are, from what I hear, not as common as some posters on here have made it sound. On really bad days, there are various other air
: High density? You must be joking. 150 seats in a single-class A320 is a feat to be had, with 34-36 inches of pitch. EasyJet has more seats in their A
: Many speculated that B6 would not do well in ORD and they were wrong. High load factor, reasonable pricing and the best one cabin-class service out th
: I was thinking the same thing! SFO allowa B6 a chance to connect the dots on the West Coast without a low-yield battle with WN.
: High Load Factor doesn't automatically mean profit and reasonable pricing could catch up with them. It is not cheap to operate out of such a huge air
: "United First and Business customers on European and coast-to-coast p.s. flights will experience entrees designed by award-winning Chef Charlie Trott
: As someone else stated, this is still the "grace" period. Nevertheless, ORD is starting out with much more fanfare and success than, say, CMH (which
: I flew B6 to Boston on the second day of their CMH service. Of course the flight was packed by intro. fares. Can anyone elaborate on how things are g
: The flights are full from what I see and from a revenue PowerPoint I recently saw, successful for us so far. I wouldnt count CMH-JFK as route that su
: Full flights do not equate to profitable ones, and they really aren't that full either. A walk-up fare of $59 out of BOS or JFK for tomorrow - a Sund
: "High density" seat configuration on B6?....compared to what? UA / AA 1st and biz class seating, I would agree. Compared to everyone elses economy co
: I usually run JFK-CMH-JFK quite a bit and that route has been a very strong preformer when I've been on it. Extremely high load factors going and com