LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6980 times:
Quotes:
Jet Airways Ltd., India's biggest domestic airline, said it will expand its international operations with new flights to Bangkok in late January and flights to the United States late this year.
Jet Airways said on Tuesday it plans to launch a regular U.S. service in August, flying to Newark, New Jersey, and to San Francisco via Shanghai in October, executives said.
The airline will use eight new Boeing 777s and five Airbus 330s, already ordered, on its international routes this year on top of six Boeing 737s for its Indian domestic service, chairman Naresh Goyal told reporters.
"Our international operations will grow to account for about 50 percent of our total revenues in a few years," Goyal said, announcing Jet Airways' 14 weekly flights between Bangkok, Delhi and Kolkata.
Manny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6956 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter): Jet Airways said on Tuesday it plans to launch a regular U.S. service in August, flying to Newark, New Jersey, and to San Francisco via Shanghai in October, executives said.
Me thinks they will make a killing. The India-PVG-SFO route will make them a lot of dough.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6919 times:
Quoting Manny (Reply 1): The India-PVG-SFO route will make them a lot of dough.
Does the India-US bilateral allow for local traffic between China and the USA?
Legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1839 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6849 times:
Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3): I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?
As much as I may get blasted for this, the world does not revolve around LAX and JFK and there are other potential markets outside LAX and JFK. SFO has no Indian carriers and there is a market to be tapped. There could be a possibility that in two years there will be three Indian carriers serving SFO ie: Air India, Kingfisher and Jet Airways.
Jlk From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6812 times:
That is fantastic news. I hope 9W provides connections to south indian cities from the Mumbai international terminal without having to go thru customs and immigration in BOM. I guess this would be the fastest route to BOM from the west-coast barring EVA's SFO-TPE-BOM (maybe)
Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3): I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?
Duh.. the two most populated desi cities (including the SJ bay area) separated by the largest distance.
LHRBFSTrident From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 629 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6651 times:
Mandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6595 times:
Last month's (December, 2006) (I don't remember which week though) issue of Aviation Week has a bit of news on this matter.
1] US DOT has cleared 9W to start flights to US. And they plan to start New York (I dont remember JFK or EWR) and SFO flight later in 2007.
2] AI to join star (as 21st member) after their merger with Indian in April.
Now Jet and AI have both made into news for years (AI for a decade now) that they are starting service to SFO.
Lets wait and watch if they really do. Or it gets slippery in the red tape in either country or even within the airlines themselves.
By the way how far behind is KingFisher in this race? anybody knows ?
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6575 times:
Quoting Mandargb (Reply 8): By the way how far behind is KingFisher in this race? anybody knows ?
Kingfisher needs to complete five years of domestic flying before they can fly international. However, it is expected that this rule may be relaxed to three years, which will make Kingfisher eligible to fly international in 2008.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3078 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6555 times:
Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 7): Don't they have operational support from LH? Conjecture that Star might be the natural way for them to go...
While that would be logical for both *A and 9W, unfortunately *A has been wooing AI/IC for the past few years, and now they seem to be close to formally joining *A. Which then means it's close to impossible to get 9W in as well.
Jet Airways, India's largest private airline, has formed a commercial partnership with Thai Airways International as part of its strategy to expand its operations with international carriers on a bilateral basis. The Mumbai-based carrier has opted for bilateral arrangements rather than joining global airline alliances such as Star Alliance, Oneworld or Skyteam, which entail complications such as adopting common operation systems.
In addition to THAI, Jet has struck earlier deals with Lufthansa and British Airways.
''We are not joining any alliance at this time because we are new. We will have bilateral relationships with different countries,'' Jet chairman Naresh Goyal said in an interview in Bangkok yesterday.
in reality I expect that they are talking to everyone and waiting to see who offers the most favourable terms
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Manny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6235 times:
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2): Does the India-US bilateral allow for local traffic between China and the USA?
The India China aviation pact was revised in 2005.
Excerpt:
The civil aviation agreement seeks to increase the flight frequencies of designated airlines of each side to 14 per week on the IATA summer season of 2005, that would go up to 28 flights during the winter season and to 42 flights during the summer season of 2006. At present, each side operates seven flights a week.
The two sides would also adopt 'open skies' policy for cargo with unlimited capacity entitlement for dedicated cargo services.
Agreement has also been reached to simplify visa procedures for operating and cabin crew and employment of foreign pilots by the designated airlines of either side. The airlines would also be allowed to dry lease aircraft for both combination services and cargo sharing services.
Under the MoU, designated airlines of both parties are entitled to have unlimited third, fourth and fifth freedom traffic rights while they can co-terminalise any two points in its own territory and/or any two points in the territory of the other party without a cabotage rights with the exception for airlines designated by India to combine Beijing and Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, Shanghai and Guangzhaou.
Concorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6164 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 11): in reality I expect that they are talking to everyone and waiting to see who offers the most favourable terms
With the newly merged AI and IC set to join Star Alliance, would it be reasonable to assume that Jet will therefore either joing Skyteam or oneworld?
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2957 posts, RR: 30 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6143 times:
It's great to see a new carrier coming to SFO. The Silicn Valley will greatly benefit from this service, and as mentioned above, will most likely bring in a lot money for Jet Airways.
Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3): I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?
Why not? LAX and JFK are not the only main airports in the US. And serving SFO will probably be more beneficial for Jet than serving LAX which has competition. It's only common sense.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6013 times:
Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 13): With the newly merged AI and IC set to join Star Alliance, would it be reasonable to assume that Jet will therefore either joing Skyteam or oneworld?
from all the reports I have read "unnamed sources" at AI said that they would be announcing last month that AI would join Star - if it was announced I missed it - certainly Star haven't said anything ...... yet
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5972 times:
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16): As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!
9W should do BOM-PVG-SFO-EWR-BOM both ways, and become the new PanAm
Jlk From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5941 times:
Quoting Manny (Reply 12): Under the MoU, designated airlines of both parties are entitled to have unlimited third, fourth and fifth freedom traffic rights while they can co-terminalise any two points in its own territory and/or any two points in the territory of the other party without a cabotage rights with the exception for airlines designated by India to combine Beijing and Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, Shanghai and Guangzhaou.
With United winning the dogfight for the PEK-US market, I wonder whether 9W or AI would try to exploit their fifth freedom rights from PEK to the US like a DEL-PEK-LAX route given that 9W would start BOM-PVG-SFO.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16): As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!
I also wonder why the Chinese carriers haven't jumped on this China-India route with connections to the US? A BLR-PVG-SFO route would be an instant success.
= I think so. Really refreshing to see some new city pairs being linked by 9W. In the pipeline are supposedly BRU-EWR, DUS-YYZ, BOM-BRU, PVG-SFO, HKG-YYZ. Exciting times.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 55 Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5907 times:
Quoting Jlk (Reply 20): A BLR-PVG-SFO route would be an instant success.
= Not enough connecting traffic on BLR-PVG? Also, I view BLR as being high-yielding travellers with FFP miles in their eyes. An MU connection would not help vs. LH, SQ, AF, and the like.
PNQIAD From India, joined May 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5866 times:
Quoting Comorin (Reply 18): 9W should do BOM-PVG-SFO-EWR-BOM both ways, and become the new PanAm
They would not be able to issue tix. on SFO-EWR. A long leg to be wasted without traffic rights. It they could do a SFO-Europe leg instead - that would be an awesome RTW flight.
25 Manny: Indian carriers are poised to take advantage of the strong Chinese-US market. They can even have a scissors network through either PVG, PEK. For exam
26 BlrBird: This will have to wait till new ASA is signed with HK government, with current rights they cant do this.
28 Abrelosojos: = Um, DL JFK-BOM, CO EWR-DEL, and AA ORD-DEL. -A.
29 Kaitak744: With what happen to their LAX route, and Jet Air getting to SFO before them, I doubt AI would even have the guts to start BOM/DEL-SFO. SFO has as muc
30 AirbusfanYYZ: Neither 9W nor AI is doing USA-India non-stop. They both will be starting later this year, but AI will beat 9W to the punch as their non-stops start
31 LAXDESI: I believe to DEL only as they dropped the BOM flight.
32 Kaitak744: That is what I said? I think my wording was bad. Sorry. Isn't it 3x weekly 747-400M LAX-FRA-DEL-BOM and 4x weekly 747-400 LAX-FRA-BOM?
33 SLCNate: Nope. LAX-FRA-DEL is only on Mon, Wed, and Sat and the same flight going to BOM on Wed. BOM was dropped in August due to combination of load factor /
34 Kaitak744: Wow, I never knew it is down to 3x weekly. Thanks for the info. VT-AIM. Air India's only 747-400M.
35 Legacyins: I believe AI will start service into SFO but as a non-stop route and not as a 1 stop as Jet is proposing. Boeing did a demo non-stop flight from BOM-
36 MERLIN: Good news..Jet and AI head to head.Good to hear more and more sectors coming up. Great competition between these two.Eagarly waiting for the arrival o
37 Airzim: and this site continues to demonstrate that nobody has ever worked in route planning and has absolutely no idea how network management works. This fl
38 AKLDELNonstop: Mate, please do a bit of background research before posting. This flight will make money because: a) SFO-India traffic b) PVG-SFO traffic c) BOM-PVG,
39 Karan69: And why do you make such a "logical" conclusion please care to explain us your logic. Have you seen how much cargo potential alone is there between t
41 Himmat01: What makes you reach this conclusion. Trade between India and China is very high and is likely to grow at a very high rate. As Karan has mentioned, t
42 Flying Belgian: I still cant understand economically: why would 9W stop on its way from BOM to either YYZ or EWR since they have the frame to fly these routes non-sto
43 Ryu2: The SFO-PVG flight on UA *ALWAYS* is full, even in F and C... any additional PVG flight will have no trouble.
44 Airzim: And you proven exactly what? What laughable analysis. You're all asking me to prove why this flight wouldn't work but I've seen nothing on here that
45 Jaysit: With trade increasing between India and China at nearly 30% annually (to make up for all those years of Indo-Sino frostiness), the bellies of Asian a
46 Sshank: All true - but even with good service they need to be part of an alliance to fill the front of the plane. While UA is indeed a lousy carrier when comp
47 Abrelosojos: = While you mock others, I do not see you to have put forward one verifiable data source which indicates a lack of premium demand on BOM-PVG. Without
48 Abrelosojos: = ... and yet, EK, EY, and QR have been successful. Cheers, A.
49 LY777: Wow!!!Jet Airways is really expanding dramatically!!!
50 Jaysit: But they don't just pick up low and VFR traffic on the Heathrow route. The front of the cabin on Jet Airways does very well on the Mumbai route. It c
51 Karan69: Mate Shanghai Airways flies MD-11F between the two cities with double daily service on certain days---i infact saw two of them takeoff 15-20 mins apa
52 Manny: India & China's total trade for first 11 months of 2006 was worth USD22.38 billion. Sure there's cargo going both ways. Add to that travelers who fly
53 Concorde001: BOM-LHR is hardly a low end VFR market for any of the airlines on this route! While yield is not what it used to be when AI and BA were the only play
54 Jlk: United Airlines awarded new D.C.-Beijing route UAL Corp. shares hit $48.20 on the news but backed down to close at $46.84, a 4-cent gain. AMR Corp. s
55 Sshank: I realize that - my comment was that BA was getting a lion's share of the premium traffic and not 9W despite thier excellent product for all the reaso
56 Airzim: This is all speculation and innuendo. Typical response from this website of amateurs. Plus based on what you've written, it looks like passengers hav
57 NW748i: I'm not to familiar with Indian carriers, but I do know that PIA has the 773-LR. If Pakistan can do it, certainly India can. It would be nice to see a
58 Jlk: FYI, below are the links to the DGCA website that lists out the passenger and cargo traffic growth between India and every other country. They still h
59 Jaysit: Fighting words from the King of them all. From Zimbabwe, no less. The A.net King of Zimbabwean amateurs. Put on your bifocals and go back and read th
60 Airzim: Continuing to solidify my opinion of this website. Are you seriously suggesting that you're using airport employees with anecdotal evidence of load f
61 Abrelosojos: AirZim, I am still waiting for the concrete verifiable data that support your claims of exaggerated demand. Given your audacity of demeaning everyone
62 Manny: Step 1A of route planning is to know what route is being planned. Its PVG not SHA "genius". Good thing you are not a pilot. You do not seem have a hi
63 AirIndia: everyones waiting for Airzim's reply... or perhaps the netwroks are down on the back of another military coup in that very developed nation....
64 Chinaeastern: hey guys, what's exactly happening here? how did you guys manage to turn this place into such a mess. i would think that even BOM-PVG O&D would sustai
65 Jaysit: I'm sorry. If they're not tourists, then they clearly can't be business travellers. Must be the VFR crowd in your treatise on imaginary human migrati
66 Jaysit: And look - an article in the Economic Times extolling the increase in India-China airfreight. Air Cargo imports in Mumbai airport rise 32% TIMES NEWS
67 Nimish: But this is all meaningless data - and the ET is a stooge for this website which is itself a home for folks with underdeveloped thinking capabilities
68 AKLDELNonstop: Air Zim, I can now understand why Robert Mugabe might want to restrict the freedom of speech in his fiefdom. Cheers
69 Airzim: I'm sure you're all very proud of yourselves. Insulting Zimbabwe, how original. Too bad I live in New York, morons. SHA is the city code for Shanghai,
70 DIJKKIJK: Who cares who fills up the seats between PVG and India? Evan if there is absolutely NO traffic between PVG and India, there's TONS of traffic between
71 Sshank: This is surely a new low for a.net. He must be wrong because he is from Zimbabwe.
72 Abrelosojos: = I have to agree with AirZim. His nationality is irrelevant to the discussion. Anyways, returning to my third attempt at having AirZim still answer
73 Gr8Circle: Do you have any basis for this direct attack on AI? Or are you also basing your comments on the opinions of a.netters, who repeatedly bash AI on this
74 Jaysit: It doesn't imply that he's wrong for being from Zimbabwe. He could be a know nothing Chadean or a know nothing Swede. It appears now that he is just
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