LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 8192 posts, RR: 63 Posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Brazilian Ocean Air, owned by Mr. Efromovich, also the owner of AV, will receive very shortly their first 767-300ER.
It's the C/N 25280, ex-VT-SDL and N645UA, and will be delivered to Ocean Air probably by January 09 or 10 thru the route DEL-SNN-MZJ to be prepared. Brazilian registration not known yet.
Ocean Air has plans to run a GIG-GRU-BOG-LAX flight as well as GRU-GIG-SSA-LAD/LOS, and GRU-JNB with a fleet of 6 Boeing 767-300ER. Also, they keep plans for LIM, in this case using probably a Boeing 757-200.
No date given yet for their first international flights, but it's nice to see more widebodies coming to Brazil and also to South America. It's seems that the first flight will be on LAX route but this is unconfirmed !
Xkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 791 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Ocean Air has plans to run a GIG-GRU-BOG-LAX flight as well as GRU-GIG-SSA-LAD/LOS, and GRU-JNB with a fleet of 6 Boeing 767-300ER.
why would they pick those routes instead of the ones with more demand left by Varig? MIA always needs additional lift and even MCO would have more demand than LAD or LOS
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 8192 posts, RR: 63 Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3328 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 3): Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
why would they pick those routes instead of the ones with more demand left by Varig?
The explanation is: COMPETITION
They are going for routes where they will face little if none competition, Xkorpyoh.
Right, and they are looking for some synergy with AV. I agree that JNB will be worst then just fly to MIA, but there is some comments here, the bilateral does not allow more than 2 airlines flying from the same city, and JJ & RG keep the rights for MIA (this is why probably even Gol will need to run FLL or MCO in the future if they confirm their desire to fly to the US from MAO)
LOS keep a very strong cargo demand, and some oil demand. I agree also LOS is a new market and keep risks, and also LAD, well served by TAAG and very soon with a better plane (772).
EMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3294 times:
If OceanAir wants to become a major player in the Brazilian/Latin America I think they should make a series of improvements before start flying abroad:
01 - Create a loyalty program or associate to Avianca program
02 - Become a IATA member
03 - Improve their website
RICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2219 posts, RR: 36 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2963 times:
Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 5): If OceanAir wants to become a major player in the Brazilian/Latin America I think they should make a series of improvements before start flying abroad:
01 - Create a loyalty program or associate to Avianca program
02 - Become a IATA member
03 - Improve their website
Well, they are suppose to become "Avianca" in the first quarter of this year, based on comments by Efromovich... that will sort almost all things out...
RICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2219 posts, RR: 36 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2961 times:
One last thing. If OceanAir keeps its act together in Brazil, continue its improvements, once it became AV, I think it leaves this new AV with good possibilities for Star Alliance, don't you think?
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 8192 posts, RR: 63 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2860 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 7): One last thing. If OceanAir keeps its act together in Brazil, continue its improvements, once it became AV, I think it leaves this new AV with good possibilities for Star Alliance, don't you think?
Could be Ricariza, Star could see AV as the strong player they need now as RG probably will take a little longer to re-build a more complete network.
Summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1564 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2804 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8): Star could see AV as the strong player they need now as RG probably will take a little longer to re-build a more complete network
But you could have both!
I do think that AV/OceanAir have potential, and a big global alliance might be interested, but I insist that an alliance Varig with AV/Oceanair should bring important benefits to both, in Brasil and the rest of South America. With Varig recovering its main destinations, domestic, in the America's and Europe, and with OceanAir's smaller destinations and its African ambitions, complemented by AV's network -and its increasing growth and further European ambitions.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8188 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
Thank you RICARIZA. I would fly AV anytime. I like the airline and know Mr. Efromovich would never let the interiors be horrible anytime.
You're right. Both have complimentary networks, Varig will be strong again in Brazil and mainly in the south, while Avianca could be the player for the Andean and North South Atlantic. Will be even stronger than in the past.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 7784 posts, RR: 58 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2533 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14): And the comments from Brazilian customers are also very good about AV service!
Correct. Brazilian pax have very positive comments about both AV and OceanAir. In fact, OceanAir is emerging as the "best" domestic airline in Brazil in terms of aspects such as onboard food, seat layout, etc.
AMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2504 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4): LOS keep a very strong cargo demand, and some oil demand. I agree also LOS is a new market and keep risks, and also LAD, well served by TAAG and very soon with a better plane (772).
Synergy also invests in the Nigerian airline Capital Airline, which flies between Abuja, Benin City, Enugu and Lagos with EMB120: http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpage.../31/ceomagazine-31-07-2006-001.htm Foreign investors
Yes. We have technical partners from Brazil. They�ve been here twice. The leader of the team has met with our own Chairman, Chief Tony Eze, they�ve spoken and seen where they can assist in bringing in their wealth of experience like experts, spare parts, aircraft, to come and inject into Capital Air. I tell you, this airline is going to be big because the investor company has four types of airlines. He�s running Ocean Air, Aviance and others. He�s also into oil and gas and I know that the investment he�s bringing here, the sky is the limit. The man is Engr German Efromovich and he�s been to Benin. He�s been to the hanger there to see how he can get the hanger space. He�s talking to the owner of the hanger and they�re in good discussions right now and the owners of the hanger are ready to either lease or seek outright sell, so that they can come and create a maintenance facility, apart from bringing in more aircraft.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 7784 posts, RR: 58 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2484 times:
Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 16): Synergy also invests in the Nigerian airline Capital Airline, which flies between Abuja, Benin City, Enugu and Lagos with EMB120:
Tks for the info, and this explains why Ocean Air plans to start GRU-LOS flights this year with B767.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8188 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2390 times:
Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2): MIA always needs additional lift and even MCO would have more demand than LAD or LOS
I agree as I see that customers connect on flights to S America from MCO on AA's flights to MIA. If OceanAir were to do MCO, 5x weekly would work just fine, but a daily flight is required for MIA ops.
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 889 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2357 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14): And the comments from Brazilian customers are also very good about AV service!
AV has improved a lot in the last few years, not only domestic but international routes also, but most important, they've become a very reliable airline. With the integration between AV and Oceanair, you can cover the Brazilian market and all the southamerican market too.
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18): If OceanAir were to do MCO, 5x weekly would work just fine, but a daily flight is required for MIA ops.
Wasn't problems with binational rights or something like that, now that RG is serving the route again and that's why Oceainair don't have a chance?? Maybe LipeGIG can enlight me on this issue.
Cheers
JAAH
AV, LA, C4, FR, Vueling, BA, IB, VX, Inter, West Caribbean, AF, Tame, AA, DL CM, UA, CU, AR, ALM, TA, Zuliana
Avianca From Peru, joined Jan 2005, 4969 posts, RR: 47 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2213 times:
heard Ocean Air has seriuos plans to star GRU-CCS-GRU flights with 767-300 this year... any more information on this ?
Well even if Varig has already a daily 767-300 on this route, I can imagine that that a Ocean Air flight could be worked very well, the increase of the Venezuelean and Braziliean trate is increasing with big numbers, thank you to the beloved Presidents of both countrys...
also cargo loads would help to make the flight profitable....
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26836 posts, RR: 75 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2145 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4): Right, and they are looking for some synergy with AV. I agree that JNB will be worst then just fly to MIA, but there is some comments here, the bilateral does not allow more than 2 airlines flying from the same city, and JJ & RG keep the rights for MIA (this is why probably even Gol will need to run FLL or MCO in the future if they confirm their desire to fly to the US from MAO)
If that is the case, how is that three airlines - TAM, Varig, and TransBrasil or Varig, TransBrasil, and VASP - flew MIA-GRU at the same time for ages.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 7784 posts, RR: 58 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2098 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21): If that is the case, how is that three airlines - TAM, Varig, and TransBrasil or Varig, TransBrasil, and VASP - flew MIA-GRU at the same time for ages.
TR operated flights to MCO for a while, but I have to agree with you that GOL will enter the US market via MIA. MIA has the profile of GOL pax, which is a very healthy mix of business and leisure. There is no reason why to think that GOL would go to the "second best" option.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26836 posts, RR: 75 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2081 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
TR operated flights to MCO for a while, but I have to agree with you that GOL will enter the US market via MIA. MIA has the profile of GOL pax, which is a very healthy mix of business and leisure. There is no reason why to think that GOL would go to the "second best" option.
Yes, TR did fly to MCO. What I was pointing out was that at throughout most of the 1990s and until early 2001, there were three airlines on the MIA-GRU route, so I don't understand where the rule that only two Brazilian airlines can fly to any US city comes in. There is no doubt in my mind that when GOL comes to the US they will fly to Miami, most likley from Manaus or Belem. The thought that they would fly to Ft. Lauderdale is laughable.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 7784 posts, RR: 58 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23): There is no doubt in my mind that when GOL comes to the US they will fly to Miami, most likley from Manaus or Belem. The thought that they would fly to Ft. Lauderdale is laughable.
Agree 100%.
GOL most likely would operate MAO-MIA daily, in my view BSB-MAO-MIA comes as another option.
Rgs,
KL791 AMS-GRU
25 Brasuca: There were talks about it before. It's been said that there are four US carriers flying to Brazil because there's been four Brazilian flying to the U
26 Neo: No, TR was already gone when JJ was flying into MIA. Only, VP-RG-JJ or TR-VP-RG have flown simultaneously to MIA. Rgs Neo
27 MAH4546: No, not at all. TransBrasil was flying MIA-GRU until around December 2001.
28 Donzilasse: If not possible to fly on MIA I do not think that FLL is a bad option. Hotels at Miami Beach are equally easy to access and time for transfer is not a
29 Incitatus: I mentioned that and it is very possible: A greater share of the population of South Florida is closer to FLL than to MIA The two airports are only 2
30 RICARIZA: AV has been succesful with its daily fight BOG-FLL Yes, in Pompano Beach.. You said it. It is the second concentration of Brazilians in the US after
31 MIAMIx707: I read somewhere Oceanair might use a different paintscheme than Avianca (that'd be wonderful if true) I thought the full-color schemes on the EMB-120
32 MAH4546: Hard facts? That's simple. Name successful attempts to start inter-continental service out of Ft. Lauderdale. The answer? One (of dozens): Avianca. A
33 RICARIZA: What?? The fares are the same than those from MIA
34 MAH4546: You will obviously be able to sometimes find identical fares, but no, on average, they are not. The average FLL-BOG fare is lower than the average MI
35 RICARIZA: First time I read about this and I haven't seen a lower fare from FLL than MIA in AV yet.
36 777jaah: And from Colombia, there's NO diffrence at all. Many colombians prefer that flight for many reasons. For example, inmigration is way smoother in FLL
37 LipeGIG: After VP and TR begin international operations, they decided to run MIA, MCO, JFK and some other US destinations. For Brazilian DAC (Civil Aviation De
38 A388: Maybe it would also be nice if Ocean Air would paint the red into green in their livery to better match the color of the flag of Brazil. I think it wo
39 SOUTHAMERICA: Ricardo, the characteristics of Avianca's BOG-FLL service have indeed been discussed several times. It has been suggested that Avianca intentionally
40 MAH4546: Well, many sure do, but business travelers don't, and thats who brings in the cash. Huge misconception. FLL's immigration facilities are way to small
41 RICARIZA: Now that you said it, I believe it, but again, everytime I look for a fare to BOG, (about 6 times a year) I have always seen the same fare from MIA a
42 777jaah: They haven't. At least with AA and AV flights arriving into MIA, inmigration is a real pain in the @ss, specially in the morning flights. Business tr
43 RICARIZA: Yeah, I know... I saw it in January at MIA, but I was referring to the conditions in FLL.
44 Incitatus: We can look at Newark as a successful model of an alternative international airport for FLL. Twenty five years ago there was very little transatlanti
45 Donzilasse: Incitatus I have not seen any flights with a lot of empty chairs for the past 9 months to Brasil out of MIA. Even the MIA/MAO is doing good for TAM. Y
46 MIAMIx707: In my opinion Oceanair should try Orlando-MCO or even Orlando Sanford-SFB and see how that goes. Now there's more Brazilian residents in the area than
47 LipeGIG: Agree, and also they could try at least a 2x weekly stop at SSA where they also keep a good domestic network. MCO nowadays, at the current fare level
48 MAH4546: Unfortunately, as many airline have learned, there isn't money to be made flying Orlando-Brazil. Filling the plane would be very easy, the local mark
49 LipeGIG: And why they can't run connections out of MCO ? I use to visit MIA from both Rio and São Paulo and all the times i saw many bags with tags other tha
50 RICARIZA: MCO-BOS could be big. The amount of Brazilians in Boston is staggering.
51 Avianca: has nobody information regarding a possible CCS flight?
52 LipeGIG: Avianca, i doubt because the bilateral is very restricted (6 weekly flights, seems to be upgrade only a month ago to 7 weekly), and RG is already fly
53 RCS763AV: Well, the bird in the Oceanair tail has the colors of the Brazilian flag. Well, US$500 on a three month advance purchase is not that cheap. I bet it
54 MIAMIx707: leave it to mah4546 to keep thinking MIA is the only airport in the universe. As much as he dislikes it, many of the Brazilians that have to take MIA
55 MAH4546: Why don't you bother reading what I said? Orlando-Brazil traffic is huge, and you are absolutley correct. AA's MIA-MCO flights are packed with Brazil
56 MIAMIx707: I can't recall if the Varig and VASP flights had a MIA stop but Transbrasil was a direct scheduled flightt. Initially with 762 and then with the bigg
57 Avianca: Hi Felipe, thank you for the info.... but due the very good relationship between the 2 presidents.... I can imagine that the bilateral will be revise
58 MAH4546: Varig did stop in Miami both ways, I do not know about VASP. Trasnbrasil was non-stop early on, but by around 1999, it was via Miami, first as a tria
59 LipeGIG: We could see Venezuela signing Fortaleza Agreement which could allow flights like MAO-CCS or BEL-CCS. I don't think they could sign a open-skies. The
Sponsor Message: 
From Brazil, joined May 2005, 8192 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 791 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, 
From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2219 posts, 
From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, 
From Peru, joined Jan 2005, 4969 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26836 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
