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Virgin Atlantic Might Want To Rethink Its Slogan  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14663 times:

"Aerospace Notebook: Virgin Atlantic might want to rethink its slogan"

By JamesWallace
Seattle P-I Reporter

Quote:
Sir Richard Branson

Chairman, Virgin Atlantic

Dear Sir Richard,

Don't you think it's time you did some touch-up painting of those Airbus A340-600 jets your airline operates?

Some years ago, you embraced the Airbus slogan of "4 engines 4 long haul," and Virgin Atlantic still has those words painted on the side of the outboard wing engines of your A340-600 fleet.

But most other airlines have already decided that two- engine jets such as Boeing's 777 and the Airbus A330 are just as safe and reliable -- and more fuel-efficient -- as four-engine planes when it comes to long-haul flights that take planes far from an airport where they could safely land in an emergency...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/299052_air10.html



47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJamman From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14601 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
But most other airlines have already decided that two- engine jets such as Boeing's 777 and the Airbus A330 are just as safe and reliable -- and more fuel-efficient -- as four-engine planes when it comes to long-haul flights that take planes far from an airport where they could safely land in an emergency...

I think thats always been the case with ETOPS cert aircraft, I reckon Virgin were just trying to make a gimmic out of a 4 engined aircraft, doesn't bother me that its still on the side, perhaps the reporter is having a bit of a slow day/week/month.

[Edited 2007-01-10 13:56:13]


Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14592 times:

G'day

The guy (James Wallace) is probably paid by or even works for Boeing, else why should anyone care.  stirthepot 

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineBosWashSprStar From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14529 times:

Wasn't "4 Engines 4 Long Haul" originally a jab at BA's 777s and 767s? I thought it was meant more to highlight Virgin as the "real" long haul carrier out of London, the one that would always put you on the big planes, rather than the one that might put you on an old 76.

In any case, the article turned out to be more about the new ETOPS rules, which is a reasonable thing to write about . . . why it was framed around taunting Branson isn't entirely clear.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14447 times:

Quoting BosWashSprStar (Reply 3):
n any case, the article turned out to be more about the new ETOPS rules, which is a reasonable thing to write about . . . why it was framed around taunting Branson isn't entirely clear.



Quote:
...I was at the Farnborough Air Show outside London in 2002 when you took delivery of your first A340-600, and you told the world's aviation writers that you had considered Boeing's 777-300ER, but that surveys showed passengers, given a choice, wanted to fly across the Atlantic in a four-engine plane, not one with only two engines.

It was at that same air show that Airbus had a colossal billboard at the edge of the runway that read: "A340 -- 4 engines 4 long haul."

Airbus had first played the four-engines-are-better-thantwo card in 1999, with a controversial ad that showed the A340 flying over a vast ocean, with the words: "It's always reassuring to have the redundancy option of four engines rather than two. Especially when you're a long, long way from home."

Boeing was not too happy about that Airbus ad, and said so...

Apparently these past "slights" have stuck in Mr. Wallace's craw as much as Boeing's, and/or if you take a cynical view his "minders" at Boeing have directed him to play the role of "bad cop."  Smile


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4349 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14408 times:

"4 Engines 4 Long Haul" sounds a little too gimmicky, boring and staid for a flamboyant guy like Branson. I would think a slogan such as "Longest In The Air", or something to that affect, would be much more appropriate on his 346's and more in style with his flamboyance. In fact, I recall he wore a T-shirt to the delivery of his first 346 that had emblazoned on the front "Mine is longer than yours". Much more his style.


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13895 times:

4 engines 4 long haul was an Airbus slogan. VS then adapted it on some 744s with slogans like "We're better by 4" and "The power of 4".

User currently offlineHUYguy From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13839 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 5):
In fact, I recall he wore a T-shirt to the delivery of his first 346 that had emblazoned on the front "Mine is longer than yours". Much more his style

My favourite is 'More experience than our name suggests.'


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13838 times:

2 engine path 2 profitability

User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13810 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Some years ago, you embraced the Airbus slogan of "4 engines 4 long haul," and Virgin Atlantic still has those words painted on the side of the outboard wing engines of your A340-600 fleet.

Virgin still only fly 4 engine birds, so the slogan is still accurate, IMHO. No-where does it says "4 engines are better 4 long haul".

[edit, spelling]

[Edited 2007-01-10 19:36:44]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13669 times:

Well we shouldn't forget that when Boeing was marketing the Sonic Cruiser which was supposed to be a twin, Branson was an enthusiastic supporter of the project and was planning and buying quite a few.

Guess the 4 engines 4 long haul didn't really ring true with him, did it?



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13621 times:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/53256

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/54115

I agree, certainly time for him to rethink his slogan. Time for him to rethink his causes or at least go for more fuel efficient twins.

M


User currently offlineLaddb From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13559 times:

"4 engines 4 long haul"

Has anyone told Burt Rutan? I don't think he has been designing Space Ship Two with 4 rockets.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13535 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 5):
"Mine is longer than yours"



Quoting HUYguy (Reply 7):
'More experience than our name suggests.'

Those two are my favourite VS slogans. Big grin

I agree though that this "4 engines 4 longhaul" thing should be dumped. Let's face it: quads have less of a future than they had a few decades ago. And with ETOPS changing and giving more economical twins the chance to operate more direct routes, the last niche that was dominated by quads and trijets will eventually fade away.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13522 times:

Peter

Virgin 747-400's (Why is this a jab at Boeing?)


ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13504 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
Those two are my favourite VS slogans

There's a fine line between edgy comedy and cheap shtick, and I think SRB flirts too closely to the later.

Quoting BosWashSprStar (Reply 3):
In any case, the article turned out to be more about the new ETOPS rules, which is a reasonable thing to write about . . . why it was framed around taunting Branson isn't entirely clear.

Probably because Virgin Atlantic is the only significant airline in the world that actually brags about using quad jets.

Even uber-conservative Cathay Pacific finally bite the bullet and selected the twinjet 773ER for longhaul trans-Pacific operations


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1623 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13439 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 8):
2 engine path 2 profitability

VS are profitable


User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13370 times:

James Wallace is the premier aviation reporter for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. I don't know him personally, but he has always delivered objective pieces concerning both Boeing and Airbus. Like someone said, it might have been a slow day with a fun-type piece already in the can.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13275 times:

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 17):
but he has always delivered objective pieces concerning both Boeing and Airbus.

I agree, unfortunately some of the more fervent Airbusiers on A.net can't abide him; claiming the Seattle P-I has a generally pro-Boeing editorial agenda, that Mr. Wallace is personally biased in favor of Boeing, and he's merely a tool of its publicity machine.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9234 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13185 times:

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 16):
Quoting Pope (Reply 8):
2 engine path 2 profitability

VS are profitable

How about this... "2 engines 2 anywhere"?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13161 times:

Quoting HUYguy (Reply 7):
My favourite is 'More experience than our name suggests.'

Thats my favourite too. Couldnt stop chuckling when I passed that on the taxi-way at LHR at 6 in the morning. I was laughin my socks off

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13111 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
How about this... "2 engines 2 anywhere"?

I've always liked: "2 Good 2 Use 4 Engines"


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13004 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 8):
2 engine path 2 profitability

Virgin are a profitable company....

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 11):
I agree, certainly time for him to rethink his slogan. Time for him to rethink his causes or at least go for more fuel efficient twins.

"His" Slogan was infact an Airbus slogan. Its been mentioned several times on this forum...

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
Virgin 747-400's (Why is this a jab at Boeing?)

The -400's have never worn 4 Engines 4 Long Haul

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
Let's face it: quads have less of a future than they had a few decades ago

Have you not been introduced to the A380 and B747-8i yet?

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 11):
I agree, certainly time for him to rethink his slogan. Time for him to rethink his causes or at least go for more fuel efficient twins.

"The Onion" is not a website you want to quote too often (Look up the word Satrical).

I wont stand here and argue that twins are better than quads, however its just a darn marketing slogan. Nothing Else! Anyone who thinks the airline invents slogans before they think about the commercial profitability of the airline is just as much as an idiot as the idea they're suggesting!



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12378 times:

OMG.....are we really wasting threads talking about this????
Its a slogan on the side of a plane....Big whoop-dee-doo....
DO I smell the ACLU sniffing around this now???? IM sure the PC Police have been notified...
Good Grief!!!

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12294 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 22):
Have you not been introduced to the A380 and B747-8i yet?

Of course I'm aware of those, but in the end, despite of the advantages they may have (e.g. Hot and High performance), I sincerely doubt that after the A380 and 747-8I there will be another quad. That's just my personal opinion and is based on how I've seen the market developing, and in the end, quads will become rarer and rarer. I'm not stating this as a fact, it's just the way I see things and I admit this might not be accurate in the end.


25 Kaddyuk : Not for another 20 years at least...
26 Post contains images Leezyjet : It appears Mr Wallace has made a bit of a Wally of himself. VS removed those slogans from its a/c months ago. He should try getting his facts straight
27 Post contains images Leelaw : You're probably right. The most recent photograph in the database of a VS A346 (G-VWKD) with the slogan (on both fuselage and outboard engine nacelle
28 LTU932 : Good point. I guess I should have been a bit more clear on that myself.
29 Ward86IND : Adding to that, twenty years ago the 744 was about to enter service as the eventual premier long-haul workhorse of the world's major airlines, and th
30 Post contains images Leezyjet : Snap. I did too. I got a reply saying he wasn't aware. Thought so !!.
31 Leelaw : Here's the text of my aformentioned e-mail to Mr. Wallace: Here's the text of Mr. Wallace's reply to me:
32 NEMA : You Got It! Sir Richard Branson, really with his success, needs nobody to suggest to him that he needs to change anything.
33 Post contains images Keesje : I my opinion this ever coming back to the slogan that VS used (5?) yrs ago and hasn't removed from all it's aircraft yet is getting a bit sorry. It wa
34 Flybhx764 : its 4 engines 4 more fuel
35 Post contains images Leelaw : Fantastic...finally a photo of Keesje leading the "Airbusierettes" in a line-dance of the ETOPS Hop-Clop.
36 Zeke : Somewhat misplaces soul, the number of engines has little to do with things, its the efficiency of the engines. The 748 will have a better CASM than
37 TSS : "4 engines 4 long haul" seems an odd slogan to me, particularly since it doesn't tie in with the airline's name nor does it allow for the possibility
38 Post contains links and images Keesje : From the Seattlepi article: : "Four-engine planes operating on long-haul routes also will have to have satellite-based communication equipment, which
39 Leelaw : Since when is a public figure as quixotic as SRB elevated to the status of Caesar's Wife (i.e. above reproach)? Additionally, I'm not sure what you t
40 Post contains links Keesje : I think James renetly was on Boeings 772LR record flight, on the Boeings 787 world VIP tour, knows a lot of Boeing people, knows what his home public
41 Zvezda : IF there is ever another new airliner developed larger than the 777, then it will surely be a twin unless (and this is the only plausible reason) the
42 Post contains images David L : You might need longer nacelles for that one.
43 Leelaw : It's doubtful the audience in the Seattle media market is mostly interested in consuming pro-Boeing pablum. You're certainly clueless about what sell
44 BoomBoom : Yes, news stories always begin: Dear Sir Richard, And the Great Keesje serves us his sour grapes...
45 Post contains links Leelaw : "Virgin Atlantic removes Airbus slogan" http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/110431.asp
46 MD-90 : Lest we forget: Voyager was a twin, and flew most of the flight only on one engine.
47 Lokey123 : Doesn't matter, they'll soon be flying twin engine airbus airplanes anyway...slogans come and go
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