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Delta Wants To Start Daily JFK-TLV Nonstop Flights  
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7191 times:

Two newspapers, Haaretz and Globes, report today that Delta wants to start daily nonstop flights from New York to Tel Aviv. According to the article in Globes, Delta's chiefs told the Israeli Tourism Minister of their intention to start this flight at a meeting in Atlanta. Globes reports that daily DL nonstop flights from JFK to TLV would add 90,000 seats a year to Israel. Apparently, the Open Skies Agreement between Israel and United States reduces many of the barrier to starting these flights.

Neither articles states when these flights will begin or which aircraft DL would use on this route. As another thread reports, DL has a shortage of 777s. If Delta starts flying from JFK to TLV, it would probably deploy a 767 on this route. However, since CO and LY fly 777s or 744s from New York to Tel Aviv, I would think that DL would be a competitive disadvantage if it could offer only service on a 767.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7152 times:

DL can use the feed at JFK to fill the plane. Since they won't need to use connecting traffic to fill as many seats, they may be able to get a revenue premium over LY or CO. Did DL fly JFK-TLV briefly before 9/11?

User currently offlineExusair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 684 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7116 times:

Yes MD-11 service prior to 9/11.

Original plans were to serve the route before the end of 2006. The war in Israel earlier in the year and the subsequent softening of traffic caused a wait and see approach to expanding service.

Is there a start date mentioned?


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7095 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 1):
Did DL fly JFK-TLV briefly before 9/11?

Yes, DL flew JFK-TLV twice in the past. The first time was when it bought PA's transatlantic routes. These flights stopped in Paris. In the early 1990s, after flying to TLV for a few years, DL discontinued this route. In 2000, DL started flying to TLV again. This time, the flights were nonstop. However, DL suspended service in 2001.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7106 times:

Quoting Exusair (Reply 2):
Is there a start date mentioned?

On Flyertalk, they mentioned a possible start date of early 2008.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7094 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 1):
Did DL fly JFK-TLV briefly before 9/11?

Real brief. DL could easily take a 767. AC and TW do and did. Very viable for them to fly.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7094 times:

Quoting Exusair (Reply 2):
Is there a start date mentioned?

No.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7074 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Thread starter):
As another thread reports, DL has a shortage of 777s.

Yes, for now but they recently used their options on 773's, did they not? May be several years but they will have more.

Overall, this seems to be a good indicator for how well the ATL-TLV service is going. With the large Jewish population in the NY area DL should do great on the route.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7048 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
With the large Jewish population in the NY area DL should do great on the route.

Not to mention their huge presence in the market, as well as their JFK hub which offers many connecting options.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7008 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
Yes, for now but they recently used their options on 773's, did they not?

Not that anyone is aware of. They did for some 777-200LRs.

NS


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7584 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6997 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Thread starter):
since CO and LY fly 777s or 744s from New York to Tel Aviv, I would think that DL would be a competitive disadvantage if it could offer only service on a 767.

Well, that depends. I guess most economy passengers choose a flight based upon the fare rather than the aircraft type, so it will boil down to pricing. However, a number might prefer a CO 772ER with PTVs than a DL 763ER without them, but not many I think. With respect to business class pax, DL is a bit at a disadvantage, though.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
they recently used their options on 773's

No, they changed some orders from 772ERs to 772LRs. I am not sure if the orders were outstanding or if they were options that DL firmed. But no -300s in the horizon for DL... neither A-market nor ERs.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6896 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10):
I guess most economy passengers choose a flight based upon the fare rather than the aircraft type, so it will boil down to pricing. . . .With respect to business class pax, DL is a bit at a disadvantage, though.

I agree with you, EddieDude. Another article today in Globes reported that business class travel to and from TLV on most airlines is up 10 percent over last year, and this has compensated for the decline in tourist (economy class) travellers. Business passengers are rapidly emerging as a major clientele on long-haul flights to Israel. The notion that TLV is primarily a VFR or tourist destination is not as true as it once was. The growing importance of business passengers explain why routes from Israel to business centers without large Jewish populations (ATL, HKG, and PEK) are very successful. If DL is going to compete with CO and LY on flights between New York and TLV, it will need to cater to the needs of both economy and business class passengers.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6868 times:

The 767 is more than capable of flying to the Middle East from JFK.

DL is planning on putting lie flat seats in Business Elite on its 767s and may put AVOD IFE if Panasonic gets the weight of the system down. A 764 probably could make the route and it will have AVOD IFE on it.

With today's info that DL and NW are talking, perhaps it will be flown w/ a NW A330.  Smile


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6850 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10):
However, a number might prefer a CO 772ER with PTVs than a DL 763ER without them, but not many I think

I don't think it will really matter. On this route which I fly about 1-2 times a year, you have LY which most the planes have PTV and Israir which has nothing. People really do go after price.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

Not surprising. From what I remember, DL actually wanted to start service on JFK-TLV this past November, but all the Israel-Lebanon trouble caused them to overthink that idea and instead start some other flights. And 767 or 777 don't matter, the market between TLV and NYC is enormous, so it should be no problem for DL to fill either plane, regardless of what it offers, and besides, consider the (likely large) number of passengers that DL feeds to El Al's flights. Those alone would probably be enough to fill up half a 763. Add in new passengers from NYC and all the connections, and you have a full flight.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6646 times:

the flight will start and will be on a 767-300ER a/c.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBWI757 From Israel, joined Dec 2004, 429 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6631 times:

Doesn't DL have a codeshare with LY in place? Would this remain or would the carriers part and go their seperate ways?

BWI757



I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6561 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Thread starter):
If Delta starts flying from JFK to TLV, it would probably deploy a 767 on this route. However, since CO and LY fly 777s or 744s from New York to Tel Aviv, I would think that DL would be a competitive disadvantage if it could offer only service on a 767.



Quoting BWI757 (Reply 16):
Doesn't DL have a codeshare with LY in place?

DL wouldn't compete with LY on the route. Likely, they would have a codesharing agreement (much like with AF on JFK-CDG). If anything, it offers each other's customers more choices.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 17):
DL wouldn't compete with LY on the route. Likely, they would have a codesharing agreement (much like with AF on JFK-CDG). If anything, it offers each other's customers more choices.

don't count on it.

AF and DL are most certainly competitors even though they cooperate but there's no assurance that DL will continue to cooperate with LY.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Quoting BWI757 (Reply 16):
Doesn't DL have a codeshare with LY in place?

I know that LY and DL codeshare flights from EWR and ATL to TLV. I don't know if they codeshare on LY's flights from JFK, ORD, MIA, or LAX.


User currently offlinePlaneGuy27 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

They Codeshare on Routes between TLV and JFK, EWR and ATL only.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

LY has its code on a number of DL domestic markets as well.

Even if DL and LY no longer codeshare, LY would probably quickly switch its US partner to AA which has good connecting service to all of LY's gateways.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

What DL could do is operate the a/c's (using 767's) in an ATL-JFK-TLV-JFK-ATL loop, allowing pax to go between ATL-JFK and allowing connections to their hub in ATL for the ongoing TLV flight or even other international flights out of JFK.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

Why would they do that? There is no talk about discontinuing ATL-TLV. NYC is the largest Jewish market in the US – and DL has connecting service to dozens of cities. JFKTLV can stand on its own. And DL does have very frequent service between JFK and ATL for those passengers that need to connect.

User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Nonstop 777 flights between ATL and TLV are very profitable for DL. There is no reason for DL to downgrade these flights to a 1-stop 767 service. Instead, DL will operate daily nonstop flights from TLV to both ATL and JFK.

DL is the largest airline in the New York metropolitan area. Many of its domestic flights are to LGA not JFK. For this reason, I would think that DL would route many of its connecting passengers to TLV and other international destinations through its hub in ATL, not JFK.


25 IAD380 : I have an update to this story. The Jerusalem Post reports today that DL would start flying JFK-TLV by the start of 2008. The article states that DL w
26 RJpieces : I'd kill to get a look at the info on the ATL-TLV run...I'm really curious whether most of the passengers are connecting and where from.
27 Jfk777 : Delta should use a 764, this would provide a big enough plane without using a valuable 777. Air Canada and TWA have used 763ER from JFK and Toronto no
28 RJpieces : Do you happen to know what TWA's JFK-TLV schedule used to be, back when it was a 747 route and then later a 767?
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