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Canada: Advertising And Airline Taxes Gone To Far  
User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

I'm generally just angry that here in Canada airlines can post "deals" such as montreal to london (one way) for 99 dollars. As a student whose always looking for a cheap ticket to somewhere cool this sounds great, so searching the ticket for the given days you get to see the following ridiculous statement:

TOTAL PRICING Amount PST Departure
Taxes, Fees & Fuel Surcharges

$198.00 $320.60
Amount Paid to Date $0.00

Final Amount $518.60

This is completley ridiculous, that the rules arent being changed is a testament to the weakness of the Canadian consumer. Why is it Europeans have the full airline price advertised and us canadians get pushed over. This misrepresentation of price is not only bad, the fact that theres 320 dollars in taxes and fees and fuel is a sad state of affairs in itself. I hope things change sometime soon.

AC787

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing777/747 From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting AC787 (Thread starter):
Why is it Europeans have the full airline price advertised and us canadians get pushed over.

Disagree. For example the Dutch court has decided recently that Dutch airline transavia.com is allowed to continue their misleading advertising campaigns with the 'tax free' ticket pricing.


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4291 times:

This is a matter for the Canadian Consumer Affairs people...and its not just air fares either. The full price for everything should be advertised (including GST and PST). Since these are mandatory charges, why not include them in the price? (There is an added benefit here that you would not be reminded of how much you dislike the government every time you have to buy something)


Jets are for kids
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Gee, aren't you also angry when you go to the Bay, see a pair of jeans for $29.99, take them to the cash desk and have to shell out $33.56? (or whatever). In Canada GST, PST, etc are not included in the price. So why should all the government, airport (and sometimes surcharges) taxes, fees and charges be included in the price of an airline ticket.

User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
Gee, aren't you also angry when you go to the Bay, see a pair of jeans for $29.99, take them to the cash desk and have to shell out $33.56? (or whatever). In Canada GST, PST, etc are not included in the price. So why should all the government, airport (and sometimes surcharges) taxes, fees and charges be included in the price of an airline ticket.

Well when I go to the bay and buy my pair of jeans i at least know in advance that the tax will be 14% of the cost. Whereas with airline tickets I never have an exact idea of how much more the ticket is and when the real price ranges from 50% to 200% higher then the advertised price something feels wrong. It simply does not make sense.

[Edited 2007-01-10 23:39:52]

User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Quoting AC787 (Thread starter):
This is completley ridiculous, that the rules arent being changed is a testament to the weakness of the Canadian consumer. Why is it Europeans have the full airline price advertised and us canadians get pushed over. This misrepresentation of price is not only bad, the fact that theres 320 dollars in taxes and fees and fuel is a sad state of affairs in itself. I hope things change sometime soon.

the problem really is that taxes are seen by many inc. govt's & airports as easy way to increase revenue by getting airlines to collect it.

If, you had to pay taxes at airport you are departing from airlines would love it (as they would simply sell more tickets - but pax would be annoyed having to pay all this money at departure).

You used to pay Australian departure tax now AUD$38/adult over 11 years at international airport, now airline collects it. In New Zealand, you still have to pay it at airport NZD$25, if departing from regular international aiport (if departing internationally from an airport with little international traffic, eg. charter, then airport or airline collects).

Fuel surcharges are another thing !!! Airlines like QF have turned fuel into a profit centre, as most is hedged but they mkae out they are paying todays price. That's a rip off !!!


User currently offlineOznznut From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

I believe that all ads, regardless of the item (plane ticket, loaf of bread, pair of jeans ) should list only the total you should have to pay. I dont care about fees, taxes, surcharges, etc. Tell me, UPFRONT, how much I have to write the check for.

Dave


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Quoting Oznznut (Reply 6):
I believe that all ads, regardless of the item (plane ticket, loaf of bread, pair of jeans ) should list only the total you should have to pay. I dont care about fees, taxes, surcharges, etc. Tell me, UPFRONT, how much I have to write the check for.

Dave

yes but airlines & their agents, don't want to be tax collectors. What if airlines were to say to govt's/airports etc, stuff you, collect your own bloody taxes/charges.

Simply, the airlines would sell more tix !!!


User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
yes but airlines & their agents, don't want to be tax collectors. What if airlines were to say to govt's/airports etc, stuff you, collect your own bloody taxes/charges.

Simply, the airlines would sell more tix !!!

Well the airlines and the agents have to live with being tax collectors or cease operating, every business collects taxes for the government and these business would be selling more tv's, cars, etc if they didnt have too. The difference is you usually know exactly how much taxes your paying whereas in the airline industry we have an exorbitant rate. Electronic stores would be laughed out of business if they advertised a tv for 500 dollars, but then told the consumer when it was time to pay that the price was actually 1200 dollars. Enough is enough


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Quoting AC787 (Reply 8):
Well the airlines and the agents have to live with being tax collectors or cease operating, every business collects taxes for the government and these business would be selling more tv's, cars, etc if they didnt have too. The difference is you usually know exactly how much taxes your paying whereas in the airline industry we have an exorbitant rate. Electronic stores would be laughed out of business if they advertised a tv for 500 dollars, but then told the consumer when it was time to pay that the price was actually 1200 dollars. Enough is enough

yes but what you're saying is,

1) either outside their control, if you're saying they have to collect taxes, but if they refuse, then what can happen?



Airlines have much more political power than a small retailer.


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4105 times:

Quoting AC787 (Reply 4):
Well when I go to the bay and buy my pair of jeans i at least know in advance that the tax will be 14% of the cost. Whereas with airline tickets I never have an exact idea of how much more the ticket is and when the real price ranges from 50% to 200% higher then the advertised price something feels wrong. It simply does not make sense.

I hear ya. Going from YOW to PSP next month. Not only Navcan fees, AIF, GST, USA transportation tax, US pax facility charge, US immigration fee, there is also a 9/11 security fee (I suppose this helps fund TSA ?? - can any Americans clarify please?) and, finally, a US 'agriculture fee'. WTF ? I did not know air travel had an agricultural component.

Base ticket is $577.98 CDN, all taxes & fees are a total of $143.31 CDN. For American readers, current exchange rate is about $1 CDN = $0.85 US.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

I have to agree with the thread starter on this one, the "advertising" practices by airlines in Canada are beyond ridiculous.

One of my favourites are YVR-FRA for $365 as an example. Read the fine print, not only do you have to add all the taxes, fees, surcharges and such, but it is also advertised as a "one-way" fare, however, you must purchase a return ticket. Yet, they advertise a one-way fare for $365.

Some airlines, such as LH or LT, advertise the price you have to pay, including everything, then in the fine print they list all the fees, taxes and surcharges. Much smarter advertising in my opinion.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 9):
but if they refuse, then what can happen?

A company is obligated to respect the laws of the country there operating in. Refusing to charge the taxes would result in them not operating in the country, I dont rlly understand what your point is on this. I'm just saying that they should advertise the full price and not a price that is between 50 to 200% cheaper then the true price, and that taxes, fees, airport rents etc. are too high.


User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1042 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

Quoting AC787 (Thread starter):
TOTAL PRICING Amount PST Departure
Taxes, Fees & Fuel Surcharges

$198.00 $320.60
Amount Paid to Date $0.00

Final Amount $518.60

You are complaining about this price?! This is still pretty damn good in comparison to other airlines, but I do agree taxes are pretty much up there.


User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 13):
You are complaining about this price?! This is still pretty damn good in comparison to other airlines, but I do agree taxes are pretty much up there.

No, I'm complaining that the far was advertised as being a deal at 200 dollars return, when the true cose is 2 and a half times this approximatly. I am also complaining at the amount of taxes/fees there are, 320$ on a 200 dollar ticket does not make sense.


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3831 times:

Qantas is currently being sued by a group of travel agents who are claiming that fuel surcharges are really part of the fare, and not a surcharge.

In a normal business, when costs rise, prices do too. To disguise a price rise as a fuel surcharge is to avoid paying commissions on it, as agencies only get a fraction of the fare, not the charges. Maybe there is something similar going on in Canada?



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 10):
and, finally, a US 'agriculture fee'. WTF ? I did not know air travel had an agricultural component.

You are subject to an agricultural inspection as part of the entry process, the fee pays for the inspection.

Back to the topic, some fees are dependant on the routing, such as AIF/PFC charges at connecting cities. Those would be hard to include in advertisements. But fuel charges and inspection fees are fixed, and probably should be included in the advertised price.


User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

I have to agree with the thread starter on this one, the "advertising" practices by airlines in Canada are beyond ridiculous.

Look at it from the airline's perspective. The price that they are charging is low but becomes significantly higher due to government taxes over which they have no control. To go the other way and just advertise the final amount would make it look to the passenger as if all that money is going to the air carrier

Were I an executive changed with making a decision on this, I'd certainly want the travelling public to know where their money is going, and where it isn't going.

In fact, I'd have it in big bold letters on the boarding pass: "You paid the federal government $XXX today in fees and taxes," along with a pre-paid feedback form so that the passenger can tell their MP what they think.

But that's just me.

Doogie


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 17):
To go the other way and just advertise the final amount would make it look to the passenger as if all that money is going to the air carrier

It works in other countries where the airline advertises the final price and breaks it down in the fine print.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 17):
Were I an executive changed with making a decision on this, I'd certainly want the travelling public to know where their money is going, and where it isn't going.

The advertising practice used by companies in Canada (not just airline, but mobile phone providers among others) is not only very consumer unfriendly, but is also borderline false advertising.

You'll get more irate customers by advertising the price your company charges for their service and putting on restrictions (such as advertising one-way fares but having to purchase a return ticket) and adding all the fees (which some are from the airline itself such as reservation fees), taxes and surcharges which, in many cases, double the price of what you are advertising.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 17):
In fact, I'd have it in big bold letters on the boarding pass: "You paid the federal government $XXX today in fees and taxes," along with a pre-paid feedback form so that the passenger can tell their MP what they think.

The majority of customers don't care where the money goes and won't take any action against it other then complain to the airline representitive, ticket agent, reservation agent or travel agent.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Don't blame the airlines; they are doing nothing illegal.

The tax regime is imposed the Federal Govt. Blame them.

Anyone who ever voted for a socialist party (Liberal or worse NDP) has voted directly for a high tax-and-spend regime that includes indiscriminate taxes on airlines and airports that fall into general government coffers, with no accountability or direct allocation to the air travel infrastructure.

If you want more reasonable (i.e. lower) taxes, you need to vote on the right (Tory, or Libertarian).

It's that simple.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

It works in other countries where the airline advertises the final price and breaks it down in the fine print.

Other countries don't have as high a level of taxes as Canada does.

The majority of customers don't care where the money goes and won't take any action against it other then complain to the airline representitive, ticket agent, reservation agent or travel agent.

That's absolutely what the federal government is counting on, which is why the industry needs to do a better job of educating the public and highlighting the issue. I don't agree that people don't care where the money goes. Canadians absolutely care about taxes, but they have too see them to know the difference.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 20):
Other countries don't have as high a level of taxes as Canada does.

 Confused I wouldn't bet on that one.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 20):
That's absolutely what the federal government is counting on, which is why the industry needs to do a better job of educating the public and highlighting the issue.

It won't matter if you include all the taxes and fees in the price up front or if you only advertise the base fare and advertise all the other charges in the fine print, customers will let their frustrations be known to whoever it is they are talking to while booking. However, less people would complain if they were not lead on by these advertising practices.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 18):
The advertising practice used by companies in Canada (not just airline, but mobile phone providers among others) is not only very consumer unfriendly, but is also borderline false advertising.

You'll get more irate customers by advertising the price your company charges for their service and putting on restrictions (such as advertising one-way fares but having to purchase a return ticket) and adding all the fees (which some are from the airline itself such as reservation fees), taxes and surcharges which, in many cases, double the price of what you are advertising.

Exactly.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 19):
If you want more reasonable (i.e. lower) taxes, you need to vote on the right (Tory, or Libertarian).

It's that simple.

Well, I'm waiting for the tories to do something on this...

AC787


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4204 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

In Canada the airlines can advertise at any amount they feel like but the Nav Canada fee and other additional taxes and surcharges are usually a set price and not a percentage like sales tax. This should be included in the price as advertised.

Consumer advocate groups in Canada have been fighting this very issue to show the actual cost of a ticket.

I am lucky I have a choice to use Canadian airports or I am only a two hour drive from three airports in the US. The fares are usually about $400 to $500 less expensive then the Canadian airports just based on landing fees and other added taxes.

As for we Canadians not being the highest taxed population in the western hemisphere that's right. We are second highest. Only Sweden has a higher taxed population.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 23):
As for we Canadians not being the highest taxed population in the western hemisphere that's right. We are second highest. Only Sweden has a higher taxed population.

Sweden, along with most other European countries are taxed much more then us in Canada.

Also, this is not just on how much we have to pay in taxes, fees and surcharges, but more on how the airline advertises their product.

[Edited 2007-01-11 21:11:15]


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
25 VonRichtofen : Does this ruling apply to KLM as well? Not true, much of western Europe is taxed higher than Canada. At least with income tax. Flight taxes in Canada
26 Post contains images JAL777 : Once again, airlines fool unsuspecting consumers into paying for "taxes" that are nothing more than fuel surcharges going straight to the pockets of t
27 Drgmobile : Flight taxes in Canada are not as bad as they are in Europe despite some claims to the contrary in the this thread. Book a flight departing Germany an
28 AC787 : Do you have any examples of the amount of tax on german ticket? Generally in europe is the price advertised not the price thats payed or at least rea
29 ACDC8 : LH for example right now is advertising Germany to Rome for €99, I found a roundtrip for €87.62 plus €13 equals €100.62 total owing by the cu
30 Australia1 : It something is not right, you don't just put up with it, you do something about it. If airlines think it's effecting sales, then they should tell th
31 Accargo : For the OP, just as you know that the Bay will add 14% to the price of the jeans, you now know that the price of a ticket to LHR will be $320 more tha
32 ACDC8 : The airlines in Canada are doing this by choice, there is no Federal legislation requiring the airlines to advertise only the "base" fare. Government
33 Connies4ever : TOL -- Thank you for the clarification, I did not know that !
34 AC787 : Noone is saying the airlines are doing anything wrong, they generally seem to be law-abiding companies, but the kind of advertising thats going on is
35 ACDC8 : Adding 14% tax is one thing, but when an advertised prices end up being close to or more than double then what they are printed, that is beyond misle
36 Strathpeffer : This is a marvellous idea, and should be applied to everything, not just airfares and not just in Canada. I don't think people in the UK have the fai
37 808TWA : Just for discusion purposes, the following ticket price is from YYZ-GLA-YYZ. Great base price of C$448.00 but a total of C$388.17 in additional fees!
38 Drgmobile : If airlines think it's effecting sales, then they should tell the govt's we're not going to collect these ridiculous charges anymore. Perhaps, airline
39 PanAmOldDC8 : Why don't we in Canada follow other countries where the price you see is the price you pay. It is false advertising at it's best. I know that some wi
40 808TWA : In the UK, where I'm originally from, the final price to be paid on most products is shown, especially in stores. I've been in Canada for 15 years no
41 PanAmOldDC8 : In the businees world of North America it is called suckering people in and only when they get to the cash do they realise what has happened. Remembe
42 EnviroTO : I have to agree with the thread starter. FIrst of all they advertise one-way fares that often can't be bought as one-way. Secondly surcharges are stup
43 808TWA : In the UK, it is common knowledge that the VAT which applies to most products is included in the off-the-shelf price is 17.5% It's not hidden but it
44 Viscount724 : Example of the fees/charges (other than fuel surcharges) not included in the fare on a sample YVR-GVA round trip fare on NW with connection at SEA and
45 Post contains links and images Brilondon : Quoting Australia1 (Reply 30): It something is not right, you don't just put up with it, you do something about it. In Canada we put up with "it". Jus
46 Brilondon : A-Netters excluded.
47 9252fly : As much as I'm inclined to having fuel surcharges added into the fare,I am totally opposed to any taxes being added to the advertised fare. If these t
48 Aerokiwi : Air New Zealand and Qantas recently got taken to Court in New Zealand and were fined for misleading advertising - the exact same type of fare advertis
49 N1120A : Yes, the feds collect it to fund the TSA Agricultural inspection is done by the USDA, not by the USCIS. Since the USDA supposedly inspects travellers
50 ACDC8 : Exactly. Exactly. I'm not arguing the fact that the airlines must or choose to charge these taxes, fees, surcharges or whatever one would like to cal
51 808TWA : I agree completely
52 Brilondon : I agree that the way gas prices are advertised and the GST is broken down on your receipt. I wish though that all the taxes on gasoline were printed
53 Jamincan : Everyone here is complaining about the industry's practices and it seems only one person has pointed out the obvious here: If AC starts advertising th
54 Yyz717 : The 7% GST was introduced in 1991 to replace a hidden 9% manufacturers sales tax. The GST was not an additional tax, but a more fair across-the-board
55 AC787 : Most gas stations post those stickers with a breakdown of the way gas is taxed, even on the thousandth time that sticker makes me angry at the level
56 ACDC8 : Not necessarily, if either one of the airlines started to practice this and the other did not, they could get a much stronger customer base simply be
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