Pilotaydin From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 2192 posts, RR: 45 Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23509 times:
well here is another one of my famous cell phone stories, this time it got bad....
Flight TK 459 from ADA-IST - Captain's leg for flight.
The weather at ADA was CAVOK we were using runway 5 for departure and we got to rolling, all systems normal and take off thrust set itself just fine on autothrottle....
then after my V1 call and rotate we took to the air and everything was good too, then the drama starts...
at 400 AGL we are required to select a ROLL mode, i selected Heading for the captain, as we were cleared on runway heading, however it didn't engage, the mcp didn't light up or the FMA or the F/D bars...nothing....so i tried putting on LNAV, same thing.....we continued manual...then at 1000 i tried to engage the A autopilot...that did nothing...B, that did nothing...then at 1500 I tried to reduce to climb power by pressing the N1 button...nothing, tried changing the MCP speed, didn't budge....at this point departure cleared us to MUT vor after 3000, so the captain was flying full manual turning the a/c while the F/D were telling him to continue his heading, started getting confusing....
then passing 7600 feet while climbing to level 260, we asked the Chief F/A to do a cell phone check in the back...she came back with no results....we were slightly shocked....then we were able to put in autopilot A but when it engaged, the VNAV AND LNAV came on all by them selves and the plane dove downwards a little, and then autopilot kicked off.....she started going insane, level change came on by itself, and it pulled the speed back to 171 knots with the flaps up while we were doing 284 so she started climbing at 4500 feet per min, im sure people noticed at the back that something was kinda wrong....i didn't enjoy it....then both EADI flight directors disappeared completely, and the FMA locked on VNAV and LNAV, and the aircraft was telling us to turn in a completely useless direction, the captain kept her in manual, now passing 22,000 feet we were utterly confused, the checklist had nothing, we couldnt use our FMS LNAV and the aircraft was being crazy, then several seconds later i was cross checking the 3 airspeed indicators like MAD because i had no idea which FCC was engaged versus which was we selected and what the damn plane would command us to do....i tried autopilot A again (to reduce the workload so we could problem solve together) it engaged! however, 10 seconds later it kicked off...because...and im glad this didn't happen in IMC...the Captain's EADI flight director was asking for a 20 degree nose dive, and my EADI F/D was commanding a 20 degree nose UP attitude....we just looked at each other....., the altitude warning horn went off at random intervals...and the stress level was a lil higher than usual because we know VERY well flying the -400 that someone's friggin cell phone is on back there, that's the ONLY thing in almost 10 years of TK history that messes up the MCP panel, coming from experienced captains...
so the pre recorded cell phone announcement was played FOUR times, and nothing, then we asked each one of our cabin staff to basically violate people and find the phones.....
guess what.....5 cell phones were on, 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not....pax were furious, because we were heading to CAT II airport at the time and we needed these damn instruments for the approach into IST....
once those 5 cell phones were switched off....everything came back to normal, both autopilots came on when we selected each one, all F/D indications came back, the FMS was usuable and nothing went wrong again....
i can't tell you how friggin upset i get, people always pray that we fly safe etc and oh i hope god watches out for you etc...but then they try to use their cell phones...can you believe someone was trying to text message that they were in the plane right as we rotated? don't you just wanna beat these people up?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
113312 From United States, joined Apr 2005, 391 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23513 times:
Was this an Airbus 320 or a B737? Have you reported it to regulatory authorities? I am a safety volunteer with ALPA in USA and we are very interested in these events. Have you contacted IFALPA?
Yeah. a few years back enroute DXB-ZRH, about 2 hours out of ZRH, some guy's mobile phone wakeup function started to ring loudly and basically woke everybody up in the whole Business class section. The purser got well pissed and told the guy off, who was so embarassed
Pilotaydin From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 2192 posts, RR: 45 Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23470 times:
Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1): What happened to the cell phone users? I would of had the police waiting for them
sigh my friend...i wish, some things are unfortunately left alone here...there is no law or procedure in force yet for these things....sad how cheap life can be huh?
Quoting 113312 (Reply 2): Was this an Airbus 320 or a B737?
this was a 737-400
Quoting 113312 (Reply 2): Have you contacted IFALPA?
No i don't know where to go or what to do...i tried reporting it here once, i was kinda made fun of and people said how do you know it was the cell phone....i just friggin know i fly like 5 legs a day, all the commanders say the same thing
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
TK787 From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1984 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23375 times:
It sounds scary. I am glad it all worked out.
Pilotaydin,
What can be done to make sure people get how serious this is?
Could this be a page in the "Safety Cards", in big letters?
How about a similar punishment just like tempering with the smoke detectors?
Did you or your Chief F/A made an announcement after you solved the problem, with a simple explanation, to tell the pax what kind of mess could this create?
Thanks for sharing.
David L From Switzerland, joined May 1999, 8109 posts, RR: 41 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23336 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): we asked the Chief F/A to do a cell phone check in the back...she came back with no results
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): the pre recorded cell phone announcement was played FOUR times, and nothing,
OK, I can live with people thinking their phones are off but...
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not
Qslinger From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23263 times:
Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
Specially in this day and age of terrorism, whats to keep 10 terrorist from boarding a plane to disrupt its systems.
Aerobalance From United States, joined Sep 2000, 4387 posts, RR: 53 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23241 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
Sure, but most legs flown are VOR which is based on radio-signal, yes it is to a certain bandwith, but you can get crosstalk.
Airfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23199 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
What do think is easier, spending millions on reconfiguring airplane antennas, or just banning cell phones on planes? If they can do it with liquids they can do it with anything.
9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 1639 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23173 times:
I will print this thread and show it to anyone who do this uncivilised act onboard. Being on MH's 734s a lot of times, I can say that sometimes there are still a few violators although MH's FAs are very strict about cellphone usage while onboard.
Being living in Indonesia, the situation here is well... just ask mandala499 or HB-IWC. And the FAs just don't bother to stop them. I guess the FAs know their fellow countrymen very well.
But, one must not forget of how the usage of cellphone while onboard can help in certain conditions, as proven by the cases of airplane highjacking of 9/11 tragedy (where passengers and FAs used it to inform autorities and their families of what was happening to them). RIP.
ForgotMyNick From Poland, joined Jan 2007, 26 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23144 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I believe a few airlines (AF, FR, ...) already announced that this year they will start allowing cell phones usage onboard.
Also, read some articles about studies that were performed and they seem to confirm that there were virtually no interference, not in a dangerous sense at least.
So it must be somehow possible. How come?
Ssides From United States, joined Feb 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 29 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 23073 times:
Quoting ForgotMyNick (Reply 11):
I believe a few airlines (AF, FR, ...) already announced that this year they will start allowing cell phones usage onboard.
Also, read some articles about studies that were performed and they seem to confirm that there were virtually no interference, not in a dangerous sense at least.
So it must be somehow possible. How come?
The airlines that plan on allowing cell phone use (and I believe EK is the only one thus far) will have a special transmitter on the plane for cell signals, much like the Connexion wireless internet service. It is my hope that, to avoid annoyances, airlines adopt policies where such devices are used for texting only -- no voice calls unless an emergency occurs.
With respect to the studies on cell phone signals, some have been inconclusive, but there are plenty of instances where the signals have interfered. And, the more cell phones that are being used in-flight, the more radio bandwidth is being used -- hence increasing the chance of interference. If they were not banned, more would be in use, and there would be a greater threat.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 17693 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22993 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on.
A phone uses far more transmitting power when actively being used for data or voice. Leaving it on by mistake won't cause much interference (though 150 left on might...). The difference in power is why a phone can last 14 days in standby but 5 hours when talking.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
ForgotMyNick From Poland, joined Jan 2007, 26 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22952 times:
Quoting Ssides (Reply 12): The airlines that plan on allowing cell phone use (and I believe EK is the only one thus far) will have a special transmitter on the plane for cell signals,
Alright, but its purpose is to make cells work and not to prevent them from interfering with cockpit's navigation and radio devices.
Quote: It is my hope that, to avoid annoyances, airlines adopt policies where such devices are used for texting only -- no voice calls unless an emergency occurs.
I wouldn't count on that... Once they allow a small tiny sth, they have to un-ban it all. Do you imagine pax texting but not receiving calls, not using internet etc? And RyanAir's CEO specifically commented that he doesn't mind the noise in the cabins of his a/c's (because suddenly everyone is shouting over the phone), he said sth like "you want piece&quiet, you don't fly Ryan".
Quote: With respect to the studies on cell phone signals, some have been inconclusive, but there are plenty of instances where the signals have interfered.
My point is that there must already exist something (a new technology?) that makes mobile devices onboard both feasible and safe. And it probably isn't a X-million $$ replacing of all comm systems/antennas in the airplanes.
Otherwise, are they all (AF, FR, EK, ...) a bunch of suiciders?
LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8997 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22908 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): then we asked each one of our cabin staff to basically violate people and find the phones.....
While not playing down the seriousness of the situation and recognizing that English is not your primary language (although it is very good), I find the term you used in the above quote to be quite funny in a way. In English, to 'violate' people would suggest that you wanted them to be assaulted and in the USA the way that term would may used in that situation, that could suggest sexual assault. I am quite sure you didn't mean that, although I could understand under the problems you had in the cockpit, and you wanted the cabin staff to be direct with the passengers and help them locate the offending phones.
Then again, you probably wouldn't have minded the cell phone offenders get a good beating for their stupidity and putting you and others on the a/c at serious risk.
hehe you're right, i meant violate their personal space, as in dive into their bags and look around. You would be amazed at the number of people who say ive turned it off, but get semi violent when you want them to show you...they take it personal lol
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Analog From United States, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22821 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): t
Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
Specially in this day and age of terrorism, whats to keep 10 terrorist from boarding a plane to disrupt its systems.
I agree... quite frankly, IMHO no airline/pilot should ever fly an aircraft that they believe to be vulnerable to interference by cell phones.
Given that there is no way of guaranteeing that all cell phones are off/not x-mitting, the only safe course of action is to assume that cell phones will be used on every flight, irrespective of any ban. If a pilot operates an aircraft that he/she believes to be vulnerable to such devices, he/she should rethink his/her commitment to passenger safety.
BTW: I'm not defending the use of cell phones on aircraft.
TheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 22726 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): 5 cell phones were on, 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not
They must be the most ridiculous crock of passengers I have ever seen or heard about. Kudos to you and your crew for handling it so well. I couldn't imagine myself NOT screaming at those dumbasses over the horn, or laying the smack down on every one of them.
I guess it's a good thing I'm not an airline pilot.
Quoting Analog (Reply 17): I agree... quite frankly, IMHO no airline pilot should ever fly an aircraft that they believe to be vulnerable to interference by cell phones.
There are countless risks involved while flying a plane, cellphone interference is just one of them. It's just like saying pilots should refuse to fly commercial aircraft in or out of an airport with lots of birds flying around, in fear of a bird strike.
Analog From United States, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 22670 times:
Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
There are countless risks involved while flying a plane, cellphone interference is just one of them. It's just like saying pilots should refuse to fly commercial aircraft in or out of an airport with lots of birds flying around, in fear of a bird strike.
You are correct. I was thinking about interference to the degree pointed out by the OP, which seemed pretty serious.
In response to your example, if there were a flock of large birds on the runway, I would think that a safety conscious pilot would refuse to takeoff until the birds were gone.
ULMFlyer From Brazil, joined Sep 2006, 235 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 22642 times:
Dear Pilotaydin,
thanks for the interesting (albeit unnerving) personal account. I was wondering if you or your peers have experienced similar interference with notebooks, especially recently with more wireless features being incorporated into them.
SirOmega From United States, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 22644 times:
Faraday screen between the cockpit and the pax? Or perhaps on the floor of the pax area? All the antennas and such are on the outside of the plane (right?) so I'd assume a faraday screen isolating the pax wouldn't interfere with proper communications.
Mikebg From Israel, joined Jan 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 22493 times:
I made a skeptical remark to a friend about cellphones not really interfering with aircraft systems, but didn't realise that he worked for British Airways as a senior electronics engineer. He proceeded to explain as follows:
When a cellphone is switched on it will always look for a signal. It starts at a low power and gradually increases the power until it finds a signal. If it fails to find a signal at the highest power level it will pause a while and retry. Now imagine such a thing happening on an aircraft, with multiple cellphones all broadcasting at their highest power levels and never finding a signal, and it is clear that some interference may (and does) happen. What the airlines who plan to allow cellphones are doing is to have a small, low-power transmitter aboard the aircraft. That way the cellphones will find their signal even at their lowest power, and not cause interference.
I wonder whether the same technology could be used to 'neutralise' cellphones, by having a low-power transmitter aboard the aircraft which did not allow any further connections. It would prevent cellphones from going to their highest power levels and thus eliminate the risk of their interfering with the aircraft's electronic systems.
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2422 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 22463 times:
Quoting Mikebg (Reply 23): I wonder whether the same technology could be used to 'neutralise' cellphones, by having a low-power transmitter aboard the aircraft which did not allow any further connections. It would prevent cellphones from going to their highest power levels and thus eliminate the risk of their interfering with the aircraft's electronic systems
Great idea. How much would it cost? (Honest question!)
Albird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 22456 times:
god dam i hate cell phones!!!
Was on a KX flight in december and it was full of cubans from MIA and the couple beside me, the woman was chatting as we were at the gate, which as much as i dont mind, was bloody loud and just spanish mumbo jumbo!! she then was told once to turn it off my a flight stewardess and she said ok and then continued on chating!! Then they came around again and told her to get off the phone now as we were no 3 for takeoff and then she waited for them to leave then still chatting to the person!! I mean i wanted to rip that phone off her and go and chuck it out the door!!
It just amazes me how rude and ignorant she was to the staff and the saftey of all of us and this was on a 732 so she was more likely to effect the controls!!
she finally finished her call but then kept the phone on!!
I was at the end of my fuse with her and i think i could of made the local news for being disruptive but kept my head on!! (just )
26 OA260: People are very stupid and selfish these days!! When the A/C doors close then switch the phone off and when the A/C doors open turn it on. Anyone abus
27 Analog: The 732 is not fly-by-wire, so its controls are less likely to be affected by cell phones than other (FBW) aircraft (right?). That being said, I hate
28 Prebennorholm: What scares me most is in fact that the flight crew chose to continue a flight on such a malfunctioning plane, and didn't get back to terra firma asap
29 Tod: And even better, send back a text message: TURN OFF YOUR DAMN PHONE Tod
30 ULMFlyer: I'm not sure anybody can prove you wrong, but if you do some research on NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System Database, I believe you will find co
31 TrojanAE: Airlines I, and I am sure a few others, shall from that point try to avoid. Nothing bothers me more than a loud, obnoxious person in the cabin, babbl
32 Prebennorholm: Dear Mikebg, that is entirely correct. You will even notice it when making long car drives in rural, hilly areas. The cell phone battery will fade ou
33 FedExFalcon: Well I've decided to break down and finally write my first post on A.net after being only a reader for a while! Cell phones and MP3 players are probab
34 Tomascubero: Very interesting, what I always do is during a flight, is switch my phone to "Flight Mode" where it simply blocks off any comms and allows me to keep
35 COERJ: I can admit that sometimes I forget to turn off my mobile during take off, but usually when the anouncement is made during mid-flight or approach, I c
36 Prebennorholm: If that is the case, then aircraft designers have something to learn. My cell phone and my cheap $500 GPS navigator are spaced by about five inches i
37 XXXX10: [quote=Analog,reply=27]The 732 is not fly-by-wire, so its controls are less likely to be affected by cell phones than other (FBW) aircraft (right?). [
38 Wing: So we should stop all the airline airplanes to ever fly again and also we should stop riding buses,trains,new generation cars and every other technol
39 Electech6299: I guess you think every in-flight incident means a pilot should land- which is a very bad procedure. The appropriate response is to run checklists an
40 Analog: I sounded a bit more extreme than I meant to, but in respect to the OP, if the pilot of an aircraft specifically believes that safety of flight relat
41 Gh123: Do you know for sure that the phones were the reasons for the trouble? I fly private often and I am able to use my phone all the time - in a much clos
42 Prebennorholm: Those systems exist. Many thousand such systems are in use every day these days. And, dear COERJ, you paid for most of them on your very own tax rece
43 Electech6299: Your extremely limited example is riddled with flaws. You are making a comparison of one cell phone in one mode of operation in one orientation to on
44 Cjbmibe: It depends on how you access the MP3 player, on Sony Ericsson phones there is an option at startup to use the full phone or the walkman feature, and
45 YYZatcboy: because they want you to be paying attention to what is going on around you, so if you crash they can get you out (A La AF A340 overrun in YYZ)
46 Prebennorholm: Dear Wing, I appreciate your very detailed reply #38. And I should of course not give you advice about how to handle fault procedures in your front of
47 Analog: If the PIC believes they were, then it's his/her job to address the problem so that the safety-of-flight related issue is resolved to his/her satisfa
48 Dampfnudel: That's one reason. Another reason is they also don't want your gadgets flying through the cabin if the "you know what" hits the fan.
49 Analog: That's why books and babies must be put away during takeoff and landing, right?
50 CroCop: no, what good would that do? They will always be idiots. why? what does that solve? they will always be morons, that wont faze them. PilotAydin, With
51 ThereAndBack: One of my last flights with TK from JFK - IST the F/A's were very agressive about getting the passengers to shut their phones off. You all handled it
52 Buck3y3nut: sounds pretty bad. I took some domestic flights in India and guess what, the people there turn their phones off when the announcement goes. But as soo
53 Jafa39: In that case I am glad I did this: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/58441 I would be tempted to put the a/c in a full dive
54 MaidensGator: Are there cell phone detectors on commercial aircraft? I ask because a couple years ago I was flying MCO-LAS on a Delta/Song 757, due to arrive at 11
55 COERJ: Considering that most airlines ask for a cell number during booking I'm sure that moments after the cabin door is closed and everyone has been reminde
56 Malaysia: I was even told to turn off my hearing aid.... that wasnt funny though. they thought it was a bluetooth.
57 ForgotMyNick: Yeah, right... And who's gonna pay the bill for the numerous calls (incl. international) assuming they hit the "right" group of pax? (just in a funny
58 COERJ: They could use that as an incentive- if your phone's off you won't be charged for the air time. jk
59 TheCol: They got lucky, it could have been much worse.[Edited 2007-01-12 05:11:46]
60 MD80fanatic: I hate cell phones as much as the next guy....probably more actually. I use less than 60 minutes a month on mine. I have to say though, the power outp
61 Electech6299: Because they do- anything with a spinning disk or hard drive. CD and DVD drives are the worst, if they are not clean they can crash a wireless 802.11
62 MaidensGator: Here's a link to an in depth discussion: http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm At the bottom of that page is a link to a list of airlines that
63 BandA: wow, after reading this I will never doubt the airlines (or other authorities) decision for not allowing cellphones switched on. It just makes sense s
64 Jasond: Don't blame you one bit!!! Of all the studies and conflicting information about what phones can do to systems this is the first real life example I h
65 Electech6299: Elevators are built inside a shaft- it's not just the metal box, but the 8" of cinder block and concrete surrounding you that cause problems. Ever be
66 Jasond: As a side note, you were operating a 737-400. Are certain aircraft types susceptible to this more than others in modern operations?
67 JetJeanes: On a cross country flight i had three differnt carrier cell phones, i could not get any of them to get a signal. I guess going 400 miles and hour and
68 DeltaJet757: People can be such knuckleheads when it comes to flying. It pays to listen to the safety instruction video no matter how annoying it can be. You jeopa
69 DeltaJet757: Just to add one more thing... Like my dad always used to say to me when I was young... HAVE A CLUE!!!! It all comes down to common sense. People who d
70 Javibi: I guess so. I've been flying the A340 for over 6 years and never had an incident that we could clearly relate to cell phones. However the A300 that I
71 XXXX10: Yes the phone mode was dis-abled sony call this flight mode I once read in my user guide that the Mobile service provider has the right to ban you fr
72 Strathpeffer: The latest issue of Airliner World confirms MOL plans to have a system that will allow in-flight cellphone use installed across the whole Ryanair flee
73 Pilotaydin: Hey i woke up and i loved the discussion going on, this incident happens DAILY at TK yes DAILY. It's just most pilots don't come onto A.net and report
74 Traineepilot: They do, my phone for example has a flight mode, which turns off any tranciever in my phone when it is switched on, so I can use the camera or listen
75 Mrocktor: Seriously, quick disconnect, land. Continuing flight with a funky AP, reengaging the damn thing after it generated uncommanded control inputs - thats
76 Acabgd: There is a report on an Alitalia incident while landing in Milano. Same thing, a business class pax mobile was switched on and played havoc with NAV
77 Traineepilot: That may be going a bit too far, because the plane was flying perfectly manually, this gives them time to diagnose the fault, in this case they did.
78 PHKLM: Now this is not entirely true; a phone will never transmit a signal when there is no base station available. This is to prevent European phones on th
79 Pilotaydin: no...look at the MEL, the autoflight system isnt even required to DISPATCH, let's be more academic here...if you don't need it to even dispatch, why
80 MarkHKG: Have you considered reporting it to this group: http://www.chirp.co.uk/main/default.asp They contact the carrier with your concerns anonymously and p
81 Traineepilot: 100% agree, it doesn't take much to fly manually if needed.
82 1stfl94: I just hope that when mobile phones do start being used on flight that airlines will still try and limit their use and hopeful still ban them on night
83 777KLM: I don't know for other countries, but in Japan, it is forbidden by law!
84 ChrisNH: Are the new-generation Boeings and Airbus' being built with electromagnetic or RF shielding so that this is no longer an issue? I know that trying to
85 MD80fanatic: Technically, no device emits "interference". Devices emit signals that can, under certain circumstances, interfere with other signals harmonically si
86 Malmoaviation: Even if I know that my cellphone is off, I check before every T/O that it's off. You can never check to many times..
87 BuyantUkhaa: What about camera's? Given the many photos I've seen here (from the cockpit too) they should be fine, shouldn't they? And it landed someone in jail s
88 Jasond: magnets around the HD drive motor, correct?? I have heard anecdotally that it does take a very strong magnet to scrub the data on a credit or ATM car
89 ULMFlyer: Dear MD80fanatic, I understand your skepticism, as I have shared it in the past. But as I said, NASA's ASRS reports changed my mind. Below, I quote f
90 Jerald01: Seems some enterprising person / organization could come up with a small, very inexpensive hand-held receiver that would scan the cell-phone frequenci
91 ULMFlyer: Moreover, the article above cites the following NASA research: A 2003 study of cellular telephones by NASA highlighted the problem. On the one hand, t
92 Flyorski: Thanks for the links and info from NASA. I used to doubt that cell phones had any effect, and this completely changed my mind.
93 PHLBOS: TOTALLY DIFFERENT situation there for 2 reasons: 1. Those planes were hijacked and the original pilots were already killed and the passengers, in all
94 Mrocktor: It is one thing to dispatch with the system inop, and quite another to have it actively malfunctioning. Had you simply switched off the system and pr
95 ANX4fishing: Sounds like Boeing should install better hardware in the cockpit... ANX
96 Tonioli: Just A question ... Why continue to flight, even manual, with a lot of things going wrong ? Appear to me a bit insane... fly manual till 22.000 (stop
97 AirTran717: I'm sorry to be a smart ass here... I'm sure he picked up the cockpit interphone to the crew and called the f/a. That's about as simple as it gets. H
98 AirTran717: What hog wash. Evidently, sir, you have never been a pilot and never flown a plane, or been in the cockpit during a flight. You fly the plane as much
99 BuyantUkhaa: If you have a plane behaving strangely (but not on fire or running out of fuel) you may actually prefer to stay away from the ground, much safer.
100 AirTran717: And to further elaborate... every plane made, by every maufacturer... is vulnerable to cell phone interference. So, to do as you say, and not fly any
101 AirTran717: Absolutely. Keep the plane away from populated areas in these cases. If you can't recover the problem... better to hit a mountian or ditch in the oce
102 Pilotaydin: i think some clarification is necessary here.... There was nothing physically WRONG with the a/c, the airplane did everything we told it to do with t
103 Tonioli: Well, its clear for me that the plane works fine in manual ... so with AP off you could land without problem ... instead od fly to 22.000 feets ... c,
104 Pilotaydin: i dont quite understand what you are trying to say my friend....you can fly a boeing FULLY manual from pushback to on block...which is what we do whe
105 FSPilot747: Took the words right out of my mouth. I was just about to suggest to Prebennorholm to join FOX news networks.
106 David L: It's advice from an armchair expert. You see the same tactics in the 3-engined BA 744 flight and, more recently, in the Qantas hole-in-a-bit-of-plast
107 Analog: It's worrying that you have to worry about your job when you decide whether it's worth declaring an emergency for an aircraft fault. You should be ab
108 Electech6299: You mean like tazers? The cockpit works just fine when people follow the rules. Just because pax are scared of authority and feel like they run the w
109 Flyorski: Unfortunately, it never works like that. Every thing that is done, especially in a aviation environment is gone through afterwords bye many groups. T
110 Pilotaydin: hey there, it's awesome you are putting forward your opinion, it doesn't matter how much flight time or experience you have, always entitled to an op
111 Analog: Of course every declaration of an emergency should be reviewed to death (no pun intended), but, just like an NTSB investigation, the goal should be i
114 ThereAndBack: This is off topic, but do you have anymore stories to tell like this or other incidents that have happened aboard flights you were on? I'd love to hea
115 Electech6299: Off topic? I thought that was the topic...
116 Bond007: Beautiful That's about it right there ...well, in the USA anyway! Jimbo
117 Brilondon: They (cell phone users) do not pay attention to the pre-flight briefing, which I find important, so how in the world are you going to get them to lis
118 Jasond: I don't think that's very fair. We aren't all pilots here or aviation professionals. What you speak of is the fundamental difference between those in
119 Swissy: Hi my friend Pilotaydin, hope weather is fine in TK and thanks for this very interesting topic... Lets try to get back to topic and as far as I can se
120 767Lover: On what grounds? Preventing a crash and ensuring you ended your journey safely? Poster meant how did they check the cellphones Passengers don't NEED
121 QFFlyer: To a certain extent I think this is fair.There are a number of people who are insisting on telling the pilots/aviation proffesionals how to do their
122 Jasond: Fair point about lines often crossed. Consider though that these forums are not the exclusive domain of pilots, in fact the backgrounds of people on
123 CroCop: But .30 per 100 people, and 2000+ flights a day means alot. I agree i agree 100% I seem to have ruffled your feathers, sorry. I was only asking a Q,
124 Airtechy: Having designed electronic equipment for a living the last 40 years, I find it very hard to imagine that any electronic equipment designed for the saf
125 DCrawley: IMO, I would be careful discussing this topic in this thread because this is an unrelated issue. I personally don't care to talk about it but I have
126 Pilotaydin: cro my bro, lol, sorry if i sounded harsh, when i translate from turkish to make things clear i type harshly, i wasn't upset at all by anything you w
127 Pilotaydin: Hey that's interesting that you did so much work with this kinda stuff, does Boeing or Airbus have a division devoted to this sort of thing? we reall
128 David L: It's those that I'm talking about. I think most of us can tell the difference between "debating" and "telling the professionals they're wrong", certa
129 Jasond: God man, read the thread for pity's sake!!! Where on earth did I say phones should be allowed to be used on aircraft, you are unbelievable.
130 CroCop: Thank You very much. You did make things clear, thanks for the story, glad it all worked out for you folks in the flight deck. Thanks again.
131 Argonaut: Quite likely. I've always imagined they use the "interference with electronics" reason because they don't want to say the real reason out loud and sc
132 David L: God man, read the thread for pity's sake!!! Where on earth did I say you did? [Edited 2007-01-14 00:23:43]
133 TrojanAE: Wow, I'm going to write a letter to the NTSB right now and tell them they I have a most qualified applicant for the position of lead investigator. Th
134 Tod: Your correct, laptops will not be banned, but it is common for the FAA to require EMI testing with the aircraft full of functioning laptops when you
135 Airtechy: Regardless of all the announcements to turn them off, I would almost guarantee you that there are lots of cell phones, I-pods, etc. still on during al
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