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NW Files Ch. 11 Emergence / Reorganization Plan  
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3330 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070112/20070112005388.html?.v=1

Nothing too earth-shatter contained in the press release as it doesn't reveal much detail.

At least they aren't wasting anytime to get out of Ch. 11.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

This is very interesting in that the timing does seem to coincide with the DL exit from Chapter 11.

Inquiring minds want to know!


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This is very interesting in that the timing does seem to coincide with the DL exit from Chapter 11.

Inquiring minds want to know!

They did file for bankruptcy on the very same day, so it makes sense that they are in a similar position in the bankruptcy process.

If anything this new filing suggests that NWA is moving ahead with it's plan to remain a standalone carrier.


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6729 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Now that NW has filed a plan with "some" financial aspect listed, will HP/US make a bid to purchase to drive up their bankruptcy cost as with DL?

Inquiring minds would like to know  Wink


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3276 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

US didn't filed the plan to drive up DL's costs. They did it because they feel that purchasing DL makes good business sense. DL has all but admitted that it cannot emege as a standalone carrier now that they are talking to NWA. US obviously saw that when the decided to take a run at DL assets. NWA went into CH11 with the goal of making it back out quickly. DL went in without a clue. By moving quickly to emerge, NWA is doing everything they can to control the process. DL management let the process get away from them. Had the industry been in better shape during UA's trip thru CH11, someone likely would've taken a run at them as well.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

To ponder another issue I'm been thinking about in NW & DL:

In DL's stand-alone emergence, they are heavily banking on International routes (primarily US-Europe) to drive their revenue stream. While times are good now, if we ever hit snag in the economy or a major world event (terrorism, war, etc.) then a lot that Trans-Atlantic demand could come to a halt. Then DL is still stunk either flying a lot of unprofitable routes, or with a ton of widebodies without homes.

NW, on the other hand, went into Ch. 11 and fired up the chainsaw. Their route structure has not fundimentally changed one way or another. They are banking on their improved cost structure and focus on core markets for their emergence. If a major world event to occur, they would not be hit as drastically since domestic travel isn't as likely to fall off. People still need to get from point A - B domestically to see family, friends, and business needs to continue.

There is almost going to be demand from the US to top tier international destinations no matter what, but some of the second & third tier markets that DL is focusing on are significantly more risky and subject to demand flunctations. Time will tell whether is is a smart or risky move.


User currently offline5mileBob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
NW, on the other hand, went into Ch. 11 and fired up the chainsaw. Their route structure has not fundimentally changed one way or another. They are banking on their improved cost structure and focus on core markets for their emergence. If a major world event to occur, they would not be hit as drastically since domestic travel isn't as likely to fall off. People still need to get from point A - B domestically to see family, friends, and business needs to continue.

Good point. When things were good, NWA had basically filled up slow times in their schedule by adding extra banks of flight. When BK hit, they eliminated those extra banks, but still maintained point to point service.



Still looks like a Ramp Rat
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This is very interesting in that the timing does seem to coincide with the DL exit from Chapter 11.

Very interesting. Up until this very moment I was hearing that NW would be filing in April.

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 2):
They did file for bankruptcy on the very same day, so it makes sense that they are in a similar position in the bankruptcy process.

Only kinda. Every company's situation is different. Northwest had a much tougher time dealing with their unions, and it's pretty impressive that they have been able to put the plan together this fast.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
DL has all but admitted that it cannot emege as a standalone carrier now that they are talking to NWA

I think you came to that conclusion without any facts to back it up!!!


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

A second PR. NW shareholders will get nothing for heir shares.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...4-54_WEN2140&type=comktNews&rpc=44


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Courtesy: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Northwest Airlines Files Bankruptcy Reorganization

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/932779.html


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 7):
Only kinda. Every company's situation is different. Northwest had a much tougher time dealing with their unions, and it's pretty impressive that they have been able to put the plan together this fast.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. My remark was to the person intimating that there was something of interest or collusion going on regarding how "suspect" the timings of the b/k exit were of both Delta and NWA. My point was to simply say they went into b/k on the same day, it means they will probably exit close to one another whether that is within a few days, weeks, or months, it is yet to be seen.


User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Wow, nothing for shares, thats bad......


"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quote:
Northwest filed a bare-bones Chapter 11 reorganization plan, leaving out most details about how it intends to fund its emergence and how much its unsecured creditors will receive in new stock for their claims, and its business assumptions for the next five years, including whether a merger could be in the works.

That information and more may not be disclosed until Feb. 15 -- or even later -- since the bankruptcy judge on Friday granted a request by Northwest and its creditors to put off filing the so-called disclosure statement until then.

What the document did confirm is that Northwest will cancel its existing preferred and common stock without compensating those holders. The plan also calls for unsecured creditors to receive an undisclosed amount of new stock and the ability to purchase additional common stock in a rights offering, but gave no details.

The company's bankruptcy lawyers have said $129 billion in claims have been filed against Northwest and several subsidiaries in the case. But they anticipate that the final amount of allowed claims will be closer to $8 billion.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1168...075255.html?mod=home_whats_news_us


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2309 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 13):
That information and more may not be disclosed until Feb. 15 -- or even later -- since the bankruptcy judge on Friday granted a request by Northwest and its creditors to put off filing the so-called disclosure statement until then.

Leaves them room to merge (buy) Delta.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 12):
Wow, nothing for shares, thats bad......

No, that was expected. The same is true for Delta, and the same was true for US Airways and United.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
US didn't filed the plan to drive up DL's costs. They did it because they feel that purchasing DL makes good business sense. DL has all but admitted that it cannot emege as a standalone carrier now that they are talking to NWA. US obviously saw that when the decided to take a run at DL assets. NWA went into CH11 with the goal of making it back out quickly. DL went in without a clue. By moving quickly to emerge, NWA is doing everything they can to control the process. DL management let the process get away from them.

Welcome to my un-respected users list. So many wildstatements and suppositions in a single post can only lead me to assume that you graduated from Macomber.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 2):
If anything this new filing suggests that NWA is moving ahead with it's plan to remain a standalone carrier.

I have no doubt that both carriers will exit as stand alone carriers, but they could well be grooming for a post exit merger that would save the Chapter 11 tax benefits that both have been accumulating.

It is just too coincidental that the exits are this close together, the pilots unions for both have been reported talking together, and the managements of both companies have been reported talking together, and their is a large overlap in their creditors who will soon become both their shareholders.


User currently offlineTL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2524 times:

The big news here is that the NW shares will be worthless....that was never stated before now...WOW there is something going on behind the scenes here ...very similar to the filings.....My guess is whatever NW and DL have planned will be released when every T is crossed and every I is dotted...

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting TL8490 (Reply 18):
The big news here is that the NW shares will be worthless....that was never stated before now...WOW there is something going on behind the scenes here ...very similar to the filings.....My guess is whatever NW and DL have planned will be released when every T is crossed and every I is dotted...

What's the big news, every bankruptcy in recent history has resulted in the previous shares being worthless ie: UA,CO,HP,TW,US,DL. Maybe you didn't know it was coming but I will wager it was not a surprise to the shareholders


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2467 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
US didn't filed the plan to drive up DL's costs.

That may be the only reason US is making their hostile takeover attempt for DL.

Doug Parker is a smart guy (or so some people say), and he must know any second merger before the first is complete will cause operational and personnel issues. He must know the added debt...and there will be plenty...will expose the "new Delta" to serious financial losses and attacks by healthier competition. And, no matter how much he feigns ignorance on the matter, he must know very clearly that the DOJ will request carve outs at DCA and LGA that are so onerous that the "synergies" he is touting will evaporate into thin air.

He loses nothing by making a run at Delta, and gains much because Delta now has to increase their counter-offer to the unsecured creditors, thus increasing their post-CH11 cost per available seat mile.

If you can't stand on your own two feet, smack the other guy in the knees. Just ask Tonya Harding...

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
DL has all but admitted that it cannot emege as a standalone carrier now that they are talking to NWA.

First of all, the press reports that I've read had "no comment" from either DL or NW. Second, DL has stated their desire to emerge from CH11 as a standalone carrier, and if US goes away, I'm sure that's what they will do.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
DL went in without a clue...DL management let the process get away from them.

Would you please give a couple of examples of how DL went in without a clue, and how DL management let the process get away?

The management team at Delta went in with a very clearly defined set of goals, and appears to have accomplished most of what they said they would. They have taken the remains of what was left of the old Delta, and are in the process of transforming it into an extremely viable, potentially profitable airline. They have quietly renegotiated with their creditors, without (apparently) much histrionics from either the creditors or the workforce (except the pilots), and they have met many of the goals that were clearly laid out when they originally filed under Chapter 11 over one year ago.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
In DL's stand-alone emergence, they are heavily banking on International routes (primarily US-Europe) to drive their revenue stream. (edit) NW, on the other hand, went into Ch. 11 and fired up the chainsaw. Their route structure has not fundimentally changed one way or another (edit) There is always going to be demand from the US to top tier international destinations no matter what, but some of the second & third tier markets that DL is focusing on are significantly more risky and subject to demand flunctations.

Question...two years ago, how much of their total revenue did Delta derive from international services, and how much did Northwest? Today, how much of Delta's total revenue is derived from international services, and how much of Northwest's is?

Answer - Delta was a laggard in the U.S. airline industry as far as the ratio of international to domestic revenue generation was concerned two years ago, and today they have almost caught up to the industry standard.

Also, many of the major international destinations are very competitive, whereas the Accras and Kievs of the world...not so much. Also, third tier destinations are often heavily reliant on business and VFR traffic, rather than tourist traffic (higher yield).

Sorry I diverted this thread...ok, back to NW filing their reorganization plan!


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3276 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2433 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):

I think you came to that conclusion without any facts to back it up!!!

Well the business community agrees more with me than the "Keep Delta My Delta" crowd....

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...e=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

"With each passing day, it becomes increasingly likely that Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, will soon be no more."

From today Planebusiness.com Banter (subscription site)

"Interestingly, Wednesday afternoon, before the news broke concerning the decision of Delta's creditors committee, the Wall Street Journal broke a story online that said Delta and Northwest had been "talking" about a potential deal -- possibly one that would take place after both airlines had cleared bankruptcy.

You know, for something that was really a "no news" item, this one certainly caused a lot of commotion in certain quarters.

Look folks, trust me on this one. This is not news. This was a clearly orchestrated "leak" of information that should come as no surprise to anyone. So then you have to ask yourself, who would leak this? The timing is just too suspect.

Hard to say, but I can think of a few suspects. Interestingly, you would immediately think Delta might be the guilty party-- as they might think this would "make the airline seem more attractive." Yes, but doesn't the "news" also make management at Delta look like they have been misleading their own employees about their desire to come out as a "stand-alone" entity?"

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
Welcome to my un-respected users list.

Based upon what? What specifically did I say that you can refute?

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 20):
That may be the only reason US is making their hostile takeover attempt for DL.

Perhaps, or they may want to actually buy the airline. Time will tell.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 20):
Would you please give a couple of examples of how DL went in without a clue, and how DL management let the process get away?

Well here's a start.... In the months leading up to DL's CH11 filing they were so leveraged that the only thing they could do to raise money was enter into an agreement with AMEX to sell SkyMiles into the future. DL was clearly out od cash, and out of assets to use to stay afloat. IMO they should have filed sooner, and not burned up everything trying to stay out of CH11. NWA on the other hand went into CH11 with well over $1Billion in cash, making it much harder to be an acquisition target. NWA's trip was designed more to be an organized restructuring, DL's was a move when all other options failed.


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 21):
DL was clearly out of cash, and out of assets to use to stay afloat.

It's as easy as logging on to Delta.com, Investor Relations, Annual Report and Proxy Statement, Quarterly Report for the period ended September 30, 2005 (DL filed Chapter 11 9/14/05) to prove this statement false...

As of September 30, 2005
Cash and cash equivalents: 1.361 biiiillllllion dollllllars as Dr. Evil would say...


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
DL has all but admitted that it cannot emege as a standalone carrier now that they are talking to NWA

See below:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):
I think you came to that conclusion without any facts to back it up!!!

And your evidence provided later, to me,doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It doesn't matter what the business community thinks, it is up to DL creditors and the B/K judge. If DL creditors thought that there was no question as to whether merging with US/HP, then they would have done something about it by now, which they haven't. So they must know something that the rest of us don't.

IMHO, Doug Parker needs to finish one merger and make sure that all works out before he goes after someone else. He might be very smart, but there are still many issues that need to be worked out at HP/US for they take on a huge carrier like DL.

Just my .02

[Edited 2007-01-13 03:35:48]


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 23):
IMHO, Doug Parker needs to finish one merger and make sure that all works out before he goes after someone else. He might be very smart, but there are still many issues that need to be worked out at HP/US for they take on a huge carrier like DL.

These aren't "normal" times. With two major potential airline targets in bankruptcy Mr. Parker would be remiss to not use this opportunity to try and swallow the bigger fish. Restructuring Delta in bankruptcy allows Mr. Parker if he were to buy it a HUGE advantage. He can ditch planes, gates, hubs, and facilities he doesn't need. If he waited for another year or so until all the US/HP merger issues were solved, it would cost hundreds of millions more to do so, if not a billion or more.


25 TL8490 : Management had been doing their best to keep the stock intact.
26 MasseyBrown : Because they own so much. To make this medicine go down, they must plan to grant themselves a ton of new options.[Edited 2007-01-13 17:15:30]
27 MPDPilot : First off I thought that bankrupcy was a bad thing and that you should stay away from it if poosible. Also right around the time of DL filling for Ch
28 NW748i : Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you figure that?
29 Sllevin : Given the vast debt NW had, it was a virtual certainty that existing investors would not get any equity. The only cases where existing stakeholders m
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