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Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back  
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4514 times:

There is a rumor floating around that United has come back to Air Wisconsin and asked for a proposal for flying that would bring Air Wisconsin back to the United family. This is interesting, considering the way United has treated Air Wisconsin in previous months. The only thing I could think of is that an existing express carrier (Probably Mesa), is not meeting performance targets in their contract, which is forcing United to possibly terminate the contract. As I said, this is just a rumor, but a very interesting one.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
The only thing I could think of is that an existing express carrier (Probably Mesa), is not meeting performance targets in their contract,

Mesa not meeting performance targets. So what else is new. Some people don't learn, United and Mesa. As for Air Whisky I won't believe it until United announces it.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

Your thread title is very misleading. Just because UA allegedly solicited an RFP from ZW does not mean they "Want" them back. Futhermore, I would wager to say that if they did solicit an RFP, ZW probably was not the only carrier who received said solicitation...

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
There is a rumor floating around that United has come back to Air Wisconsin and asked for a proposal for flying that would bring Air Wisconsin back to the United family. This is interesting, considering the way United has treated Air Wisconsin in previous months.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

I bet they miss the 146's. where are they btw?


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Sounds like United is learning the meaning of the phrase; "You get what you pay for...".


Delete this User
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Get rid of Hojets and MESA.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

About damn time. Mesa is a complete disaster. Bring back Air Wisconsin.


Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

Sounds like a bad soap opera...

Are UA and Air Wisconsin going to appear on Jerry Springer as well?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3988 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Your thread title is very misleading

I can't see how its mesleading since it says 'rumor' first


User currently offlineOrdramper98 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

I hope the rumor is true. It would be nice to see ZW back. If Mesa is on the outs, that would be cool too.

User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Question. Where/what did ZW do with the BAE-146's? Anyone have pix of where they are and wht the plan was to do with them?


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineCroCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Sounds like United is learning the meaning of the phrase; "You get what you pay for...".

They didnt get anything for what they paid. Mesa has always sucked. I think pressure in the industry to fly RJ's and save some coin was obvious, and they needed someone with a good size fleet. ZW would have made a great fit. I wish UA would never have gotten into bed with OO, I dont think they're all that great. I really liked ZW, they were a very good regional, and great relationships were built when they were flying for UAL.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Your thread title is very misleading

I can't see how its mesleading since it says 'rumor' first

Just for the record, I dont think it was misleading.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
They didnt get anything for what they paid

That is my point.

They dumped Air Whisky because Mesa came in with a *Better* offer.

"Cheaper" is not "Better", its just of lower quality. Some lessons are learned the hard way.



Delete this User
User currently offlineCroCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
They didnt get anything for what they paid

That is my point.

They dumped Air Whisky because Mesa came in with a *Better* offer.

"Cheaper" is not "Better", its just of lower quality. Some lessons are learned the hard way.

I re-read my first post, sorry my fault for not reading it right. I agree 100%


User currently offlineIAD51FL From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

I started reading this post.....and thought to myself....

This is the future of CO and CHQ..... they want cheap and they will get what they pay for....

When I worked at KAVL CHQ did KMCO flights for Delta... at least 1 flight a week was majorly delayed or canceled because of mechanicals.

Anyway....dont mean to hijack the topic.... back on track....

When will Majors realize that you have to look at more than just price when you have flying out for bid.

Chris



Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.9758015, -95.2695694
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2175 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

I would wonder if the stories about Skywest and the 70 seaters performance issues out of ski country may be related....though I think all the 146's were put down. Perhaps the E170's could handle that better than the CR7 can....isn't awacs getting those down the line via USAir?

User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

UA was forced by creditors under Ch. 11 to go with the low bidder, Mesa. The knew that it was going to be a problem, but they had no chioce. Now that they have exited bankruptcy, they can dump them for not meeting their goals.

User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Quoting Scorpy (Reply 7):
Are UA and Air Wisconsin going to appear on Jerry Springer as well?

They may as well considering their Jerry Springeresq relationship that they have had in the past. That being said, if this rumour is true, I wonder if ZW will go out and pick up some used Avro's to resume the ASE flying.

Speaking of Avero's didn't United ask ZW to keep 2 or 3 146's and continue doing the ASE flights after it was desided that OO and Mesa was going to replace ZW? To which ZW told UAL not only No but Hell No!



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Having come from that cluster, I can say with a straight face the problem with United's express division is United. Any airline could do a fine job if UA weren't in there screwing things up. Would it be nice to have 20 CRJ's leave the same terminal in the same 30-minute time slot? Sure. Realistic? Only to United.


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineIPFreely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 18):
Having come from that cluster, I can say with a straight face the problem with United's express division is United. Any airline could do a fine job if SA)">UA weren't in there screwing things up. Would it be nice to have 20 CRJ's leave the same terminal in the same 30-minute time slot?

It's more than 20 at ORD. I've been in the F concourses where 3 planes were scheduled to leave within 5 minutes of each other....9:55pm, 10:00pm, and 10:05pm....from the SAME gate! Granted Air Wisconsin was better than Mesa, but there's only so much they can do given the nonsensical scheduling of United Express operations at ORD.

In any event, I assume Air Wisconsin still has contract obligations with USAirways, and wouldn't have planes or crews to commit to United. How is Air Wisconsin doing with the USAirways Express flying?


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

The old BAe-146s have been sold off and some have been scrapped. They are not coming back. The last Coke can you drank was probably a 146.

I have also heard the UAL/ZW rumor. But I'll believe it when I see it.

If ZW is smart they will do whatever it takes to get that flying, if it is indeed available. Whatever it takes, be that buying CR7s or whatever they want.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
I wish UA would never have gotten into bed with OO, I dont think they're all that great. I really liked ZW, they were a very good regional, and great relationships were built when they were flying for UAL.

What other airlines held “Mainland Number One On-Time” for three consecutive years? 2003, 2004, and 2005 in which they carried over 10millions passengers annually. You know of any other major or regional (other than HA) that have this title?


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
I would wonder if the stories about Skywest and the 70 seaters performance issues out of ski country may be related....though I think all the 146's were put down. Perhaps the E170's could handle that better than the CR7 can....isn't awacs getting those down the line via USAir?

The performance of the CRJ-700's out of ASE are no surprise to UA. This was what was planned from the start. I agree that the EMB170 would have probably has been the better choice. I would say that UA wanted an express carrier that serviced all the hubs it wanted to fly to ASE from (LAX/DEN/ORD/SFO). The only express carrier out of LAX and SFO is OO. It makes logical since for UA to choose OO for the ASE ops. Would UA choose to have some newer Avro's fly the routes for them? Probably, but what express carrier would take on such a small operation and still be competitive with price? Don't be fooled. I am sure UA is making plenty of money to ASE with OO. You don't expand operations to an unprofitable city.

Anyhow back to the subject. I do not think that UA would go back to ZW for 50 seat RJ's. I am sure that AX, OO or some RP carrier would be more then happy to fill the gap for them with some 50 seater's. God knows there are plenty around that need good homes. The only way that they would bring ZW back is if they bought some 70+ seater's for some ExPlus ops. From what I hear ZW was unwilling (and more like unable with out a bankruptcy process) to dump the leases on the 50 seat aircraft for 70 seater's. If you look at what ZW was replaced with...it was mostly ExPlus.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6072 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 22):
I agree that the EMB170 would have probably has been the better choice.

The E170's wingspan is about 10 feet longer than allowed by the FAA. Of course, regardless of this issue, the E170 would have the same exact issues that the CRJ-700 would. The ARJ series was a perfect match for ASE due to it's STOL capabilities, and becuase of those STOL capabilities, it could pretty much land in any weather. However, becuase the CRJ-700 is not STOL certified aircraft, it are hit hard when the weather moves in, and the E170 would be no different.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

First, AWAC has very deep pockets. If they wanted to, they could probably do what they need without some sort of bankruptcy.

But for reasons unknown, they did not want to get into the 70-seat jet business yet. I personally think they missed the boat in a huge way, but time may yet decide.

Personally, I would like to see AWAC get a fleet of Avros and operate their old routes as Air Wisconsin. They could sell some of the lift to a bidder like United, but since AWAC owns some of the departure and arrival procedures at ASE they could get the most weight in and out. I would not be surprised if they looked at just this scenario at one point.

Question: how many seats can OO fill on their CR7s to ASE? Just curious. I have heard that they are severely weight restricted, but the reality is often very different than hearsay. What's the truth?



smrtrthnu
25 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Good call...forgot about that restriction! -m
26 Goldenshield : Weight restricted to ASE, no. From ASE, yes, but the number depends on the city and weather, and can be a little as 0 people lost.
27 BrianDromey : Gooldenshield, the E170 would be VERY different situation to the CRJ-700. Although perhaps not relevant here, the E170 is certified for steep approac
28 Goldenshield : Steeps approaches near sea level are not aborted landings and contaminated runways at high altitude.
29 CroCop : No, figure wise I cant give you those numbers. I dont swear by the numbers, I go straight off the experience not the numbers. I bet OO is far better
30 Mke717spotter : I think it'd be pretty cool if it were to happen, but like stated above, I'll believe it when it happens. ZW still has a hanger here in MKE and I'm pr
31 We're Nuts : Ha! Obviously you've never met the ZW team at IAD. They do all the ground work there, you know. Not a word of English between the lot of them. Makes
32 CroCop : I have not had the pleasure to talk with them in IAD. I try to travel through ORD,DEN,LAX,SFO and IAD being my last choice. I know for a short time O
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