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Ay Carumba, Dudes! It's Irish Aviation 4/07. D'oh!  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

Okely, dokely folks and welcome to the Irish quarter of Springfield for the fourth Irish aviation thread, where you find us at Moe's Irish Bar for a trad session with Poitin on the bodhran (and probably on the poitin too!), Kaitak on the Fiddle (that's a capital "F", thank you!), Shamrock350 on the harmonica and everyone joining in for an Irish jig; yee-ha, sleasceim trasna, cuig, se, seacht ... And there's more than a few in Irish aviation to lead us a merry dance.

Anyway, high on the hill is, C Montgomery O'Leary, watching the lives of the little people with contempt, particularly that guy in EI sector, Homer Mannion, as he tries vainly to develop a sense of direction ...

Excellent, excellent ...

Well, after a start like that, I'm tired out. Mmmm ... donuts!

Anyway, here we are, embarking on our fourth trek into the heart of Irish aviation; obviously caught in a forcefield, because we have full power (and we're clearly very warped), but we're not getting anywhere.

What's the wishlist for 2007? Well, it hardly matters; whatever it is will probably not happen before it's too late. But, here we go anyway.

- Number one: new long haul fleet. Please, preferably while the A330 is still in production;
- Number two: new transatlantic access rights;
- Number three: new Asian routes, particularly if No2 falls flat
- Number three: bring forward action on T3
- Number four: long haul parking stands, particularly next year
- Number five: airport competition
- Number six: runway extension for long haul routes
- Number seven: cargo capacity

In other words, the same old stuff, over and over again. I guess No8 would be leadership. That's the thing we really need; a combination of leadership and vision. Looking forward; moving ahead, being able to identify the potential, and the obstacles - whether situations, circumstances, or indeed people.

I've always thought aviation policy should be like the difference between an old, underpowered plane - say an old C-135, rolling along - seemingly forever - and only really getting airborne when the runway end comes into view, barely missing the boundary fence, whereas what we need is the 757 effect; back of the seat, full power, climbing away at 16 degrees and into the wild blue.

We can do that. There's nothing Singapore or Hong Kong or any of the tiger economies can do that we can't; the difference is vision and interest. The big question, I guess is, how many opportunities are we willing to let slip through our fingers, before we decide to change.

161 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
- Number one: new long haul fleet. Please, preferably while the A330 is still in production;

I don't see why EI don't lease in some 330s (hard in the current market) or 340s to expand for now and then place an order for 787s for future expansion. Makes more sense than buying 330s.

Also, if the new 330s are having lie flat in J and the rest of the fleet is not being upgraded to the same, it makes me think that an order is on the cards.

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
- Number two: new transatlantic access rights;

What rights does EI have at the moment (transatlantic and other) that they are not using? I woudn't mind seeing a list...

Also, what is going on with the Gold Circle Club Lounges? I heard somewhere they're planning to ditch them - just a rumour or what?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

I think they may end up having to get A340s as a short term fix; I think there are a few coming off lease, for example from AC and CI. I know there are two Air Madrid A332s with GE engines available now; probably not in great condition, but a good D check and a lick of paint should see it right.

One of the problems with long haul flights, to Asia in particular, is that as fine an aircraft as the 332 is, it doesn't have the legs of a 340 or a 777, BUT of course, it has the performance to get out of DUB - which the 340/777 don't. Another 1500' of runway at DUB would see the A340 right at DUB. The big problem for the 332 is coming back from BKK; that's a good thirteen hours to DUB, which is right on the edge of the 332's performance (the range in the Great Circle Mapper shows still air range, so it doesn't account for headwinds or Indian ATC, which can see an aircraft being stuck at a much lower FL than desirable. And there are some issues relating to flying twins over the Himalayas, which I confess I don't understand fully.

As for US rights, the airline has flown to MCO and BWI under special authority; it gave up BWI after 9/11 and MCO, because it didn't have much of a J Class or cargo market, although as a route, it was quite popular. It's all tied to the SNN stop and the limit of four destinations. If that could be changed, it would be great, but unfortunately, all of this is a hostage to the wider EU/US talks. Both sides could agree to give Ireland greater access without any effect on negotiations, but I don't see that happening. And with the Americans now aiming for a deal by June, I think the chances of EI getting increased access for the Summer are slight.

Incidentally, for those interested in the 787 and specific info about the various models, here's an interesting guide:

http://theaviationspecialist.com/787_family.gif


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6056 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
I know there are two Air Madrid A332s with GE engines available now; probably not in great condition, but a good D check and a lick of paint should see it right.

Both ex-Canada 3000 planes manufactured 1998, probably not due a D check for a while. I doubt EI will be taking any more A330s until 2008, they have enough on their plate with the two on their way.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
Another 1500' of runway at DUB would see the A340 right at DUB.

Its not even being considered, no point in keeping dragging it up, it wont happen!


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
Also, if the new 330s are having lie flat in J and the rest of the fleet is not being upgraded to the same, it makes me think that an order is on the cards.

I have been thinking the same. Aer Lingus are really only adding newish seats and power points on the current A330s so they are up to the same sort of standard as the new A330s. At least it shows that Aer Lingus know they can sometimes have an inconsistent service. I think an order in the next three months is likely but we haven't heard that EI is still talking to A and B have we?

Would Aer Lingus really consider the A340-600? I hope so it could be a great choice for short term needs seeing as the A330s is in such high demand. Am I right in thinking that an A346 could operate out of DUB to JFK, ORD and BOS without runway issues? If so than it would be great for EI! A few "old" CX A346s would be interesting and there would be no need to change much cabin wise, EI and CX cabin designs are similar, greens and blues.

Here's a image of the current Aer Lingus Premier class on EI-EWR.

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=430565

Heres an image of what could be the new lie flat seats form Simca Aero Seat.


Nice update isn't it!


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 4):
A few "old" CX A346s would be interesting and there would be no need to change much cabin wise, EI and CX cabin designs are similar, greens and blues.

I was thinking about these aircraft myself; indeed, there's a thread running on them at the moment (started by yours truly) and it appears that CX has actually extended the lease on these, so they won't be homeless for quite a while.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Its not even being considered, no point in keeping dragging it up, it wont happen!

Fine; you may well be right, but it is SYMPTOMATIC of what is wrong with aviation policy in this country - bad decisions, bad oversight, bad planning and people who should be speaking up not doing so. We've already seen SQ, the bluest of blue chip airlines, expressing a wish to operate here, but saying, effectively, that without a runway extension, it's a no go. We know that the new runway is unlikely to be operational until 2013 (it was 2012), so it's six years we have to go with a short runway. You know, we're not talking about 747s at MTOW here; we're talking about a runway sufficient to allow long haul nonstops by medium sized aircraft - A340s and 777s. We know what the problem is NOW, but the key issue is, we should not be having this discussion at all. This should have been acted upon years ago, but again - no vision on the DAA's part, no interest at govt level and so, we lose out and then, people wonder why Ireland is losing its competitiveness.

OK, rant over. We'll let it go for now, but it has to be done. I don't mean to be a pain in the backside, because I know it's getting a bit annoying, but I'm going to do my damndest to get it done.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 4):
Would Aer Lingus really consider the A340-600? I hope so it could be a great choice for short term needs seeing as the A330s is in such high demand

Highly unlikely, Rolls Royce engines, etc and very large. Would only be useful on the JFK route. And there are none availible currently.


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
Highly unlikely, Rolls Royce engines, etc and very large. Would only be useful on the JFK route. And there are none availible currently.

I thought CX was getting rid of some in 2008. They are quite young A340s too but I can see the problem with a new engine type and it is a very large aircraft. Even with a three class config.

EDIT:
sorry just saw Kaitak's post about the A340s. They would look nice in EI colours but thats not enough for EI to order them  

[Edited 2007-01-14 20:48:19]

User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3916 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

I think both the 340 and long haul expansion are unlikely for the moment. The US accounts for a large chunk of EIs profits, usually ~30% IIRC. Now if I had falling year on year loads on t/a ops, more competition and oppertunities to the east would I have assigned the two new 330s to the US, eh No.

Fathermore I dont see why the services to SIN and BKK, etc have to be direct. Surely they could be routed through somewhere in the mid-east or somewhere like ATH or ROM? If and when these services were shown to be a success they runway would be expanded. I think were in a chickena and egg situation here. Just out of interest, how long do SQs aircraft typically stay on the ground for at its european destinations? I really think that the services will have to be launched via somewhere like DXB, ROM, ATH, mabye even Cairo, before the extra 1500 feet is added.

Actually, Ive had a thought, Im corrrect in thinking that SNNs runways are long enough. So maybe they could be routed through there. PPL from DUB to the US dont seem to mind the stop too much, and most would much prefer to have the option of sitting in a seat or looking around a duty free shop for an hout than taking a flight to LHR, doing the terminal change thing and connecting there, right? Or am I totally wrong? Perhaps a routing like DUB-SNN-BKK-DUB. At least its direct in one direction.

Brian.

[Edited 2007-01-14 21:04:27]


Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

I think Aer Lingus really should have put the new A330s on routes to CPT or new routes to Asia. I dont think saying "we had to wait for OS" is good enough because they must have known that OS was unlikely this year because all they did with the new A330s was use them to boost current routes, which seems a waste if load factor is dropping.

Although, Aer Lingus must have something planned for 2008 if they have a further two A330s ready but it seems strange that DM would say they have 2 more A330s ready when we have heard nothing from Airbus or Aer Lingus. Maybe it will be announced with the "big" order?


User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5958 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Reading The Taoiseach's itinerary for his Middle East Trip, I noticed that he is due to visit Sama Airlines ( http://www.flysama.com ) at 12.30pm tomorrow.

Why is he visiting them?

http://www.taoiseach.ie/index.asp?locID=404&docID=3140

[Edited 2007-01-14 21:23:36]

User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5951 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
ATH or ROM

First of all I assume that when you say 'ROM' you really mean 'FCO.' Secondly, let's face it, EI's product is nothing compared to the majors so the only advantage they would have on the route would be a non stop flight if it did go ahead. Why would you want to stop in ATH, FCO or any other airport for that matter and go head to head with SQ and TG?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
Fathermore I dont see why the services to SIN and BKK, etc have to be direct.

It defeats the purpose of EI going to Asia in the first place. I and I am sure I can speak for most people on hear who travel from the East to Ireland regularly, we want a NON STOP flight to Dublin from the Far East. We already have to chop and change in LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG, DXB e.t.c. Aswell as this, it is common sense to know that if you have an inferior product and your route is in direct then you will drive away the high yeilding Business Class passengers unless the service is Daily. Remember, we are talking about the far east here (NRT, HKG, SIN, BKK, KUL) NOT the middle east (BAH, DOH, DXB, AUH.)

I also find it hard to believe that Air Asia would ever fly to Dublin from Kuala Lumpur. If the route goes ahead the DUB traffic I assume would all be O&D Traffic with either DXB or AUH. Nonetheless, very good news indeed.

What are the chances of EY coming to DUB in the near future does everyone think?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
mabye even Cairo

Oh my god no! Cairo is a route which is 320 size. SQ already fill the gap left for long haul nicely but it is only a small gap and this is reflected in SQ's decision to fly to CAI via DXB.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
somewhere like DXB

Again a big no/no. Going head to head with the likes of EK and SQ on the route is a stupid idea. Their frequencies, service and products will always rule out EI as an option (for Business Class and some Economy Class PAX that is.)

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 4):
Would Aer Lingus really consider the A340-600? I

No. Too long and awkward for them. If an A340 was to be considered I should think it would be the 300 series, however, I think at the moment 777's or 330's are the only options EI would seriously consider.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
Actually, Ive had a thought, Im corrrect in thinking that SNNs runways are long enough. So maybe they could be routed through there.

No. As Kaitak said earlier in the thread, the issue here is not runway length for BKK, it is range of the 330.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26848 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5933 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 4):
Here's a image of the current Aer Lingus Premier class on EI-EWR.

Nice photo, glad they kept the unusual carpet but i guess this will go with the any new interior.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
PPL from DUB to the US dont seem to mind the stop too much

Alot of people hate the SNN stop especially on the return after an overnight flight , you just wanna get home !!!And some stops are 2 hours long.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
Surely they could be routed through somewhere in the mid-east or somewhere like ATH

Yes that would be great ...well for me anyway LOL. Id love to fly DUB-ATH on a A330. If the flight was just a 45 min refuelling stop and you remained on the A/C then I dont think people would mind that much. Its not as if you have to change A/C or terminals etc.. As above JFK to DUB is not that long so people want a non stop but to BKK its 12-13 hours so it would need one.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
Why would you want to stop in ATH, FCO or any other airport for that matter and go head to head with SQ and TG?

Reasons above....it would be a refuel stop only so would not be competing or taking on passengers at ATH.

Re: Air Asia I havnt heard about this !!! Is there talk of a DUB to KUL??? Also any news on the Air Gibraltar flight ???


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5919 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 7):
I thought CX was getting rid of some in 2008. They are quite young A340s too but I can see the problem with a new engine type and it is a very large aircraft. Even with a three class config.

The three A346 at CX were due to be returned to ILFC in on these dates:
B-HQA: Lease expiry 12/07
B-HQB: Lease expiry 11/08
B-HQC: Lease expiry 9/08

but CX have recently extended the leases for a few more yrs.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3916 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
First of all I assume that when you say 'ROM' you really mean 'FCO.'

I regard ROM to mean teh Rome area in general, just like LON and NCY do for their miltiple airfield cities. Weather you consider CIA a "Rome" airport in teh true sense of the word is up to you. PLus FCO is a bit nondescript.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
It defeats the purpose of EI going to Asia in the first place. I and I am sure I can speak for most people on hear who travel from the East to Ireland regularly, we want a NON STOP flight to Dublin from the Far East. We already have to chop and change in LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG, DXB e.t.c.

Ya, and I want a friday afternoon/evening NON-STOP service LBA-ORK, but theres no such thing, so I "chop and change" at LHR too. That tripples the length of the journey. But we make do.

As the current mess that is DUB stands there are not a whole heap of options for EI. We can have a DIRECT service from DUB(but not "non-stop"), or a change in LHR, FRA, etc. Changes that add at least 3 hrs to a journey, but likely more.

I only suggested those cities because of their geographic locations, not because I believe there is a market there for travel father east.

Finally, it is my experience that EIs crews are up there with the best of them. Certainly BA and EK. OK the IFE in Y and the J class in general need to be addressed, but there are indications that this is about to happen. Many of the so called "five-star" airlines hype their service and quality, when they dont deliver it makes them look all the worse. With EI you get hospitality and caring, there are not too many frills, and the entertainment systems may not be the most advanced, but there is comfort safety and a decent fare.

Realistically how many people would choose a DUB-LHR-HGK/BKK/SIN over a direct service which made a 40 min stop in SNN or somewhere in the mid east? Yes fighting through AMS/FRA/LHR is naturally mcuh mre appealing than a short stop in the outward leg of the journey and a non-stop retrurn flight.

Just my  twocents . Realistically until passengers and airlines are SCREAMING for it the runway wont be extended.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

I'm sorry Brian, but it just doesn't make sense to fly 120 miles west in order to fly east. I'd certainly choose AMS over a flight that went in the wrong direction. Why should EI have to do this, when all that it takes is a few hundred feet of runway; it's not a question of "suggesting to" or "asking" the DAA now; it's a question of "informing them of their decision to do so". Or else.

Either we have an airport which is a catalyst for growth or we don't; Dublin can be that, but it needs "pitchfork mode" to achieve it. I don't see why we should settle for anything less than we should have. Does Holland? Does Germany, Denmark, Finland or anywhere else in Europe. No; why should we? WHO THE HELL are the DAA to tell us that our ambitions to develop links to Asia should be trimmed back because of their lack of vision or lack of willingness to put the appropriate facilities in place. That's why I say that we need the interest and determination at govt level. And we don't have it yet.

We can have our cake, if we had the vision to do so; yes, I know I promised not to say another word about the runway, but that's what we have to do. We could have a direct flight to a major Asian hub. When you consider the numbers that are going through LHR, AMS and even DXB, that really is not unreasonable.

And yes, EI is well capable of raising its game to the necessary level; a bit of IFE, a bit of "pizazz" and it can be a very popular carrier on the route.

As for aircraft; sure, the A340 is not ideal and pound for pound, the 777 is a better machine, but the EI crews are Airbus trained and EI already has CFM56s on its short haul fleet, so the A340 is the right machine. Sure, the 777 might just stretch to DUB-BKK - and I certainly wouldn't object to 777s, but what bothers me is the "comfort" or even "resignation" people have towards issues which can be quite easily changed, if the interest is there.

This is why Dublin Airport needs new management very quickly; my personal view is that the DAA should be given a list of objectives which it is to achieve over an 18-24 month period; if it succeeds, it may be permitted to retain control of the existing terminals. If not, it will be confined to airfield management and the management of terminals will be put out to tender.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 14):
Finally, it is my experience that EIs crews are up there with the best of them. Certainly BA and EK. Many of the so called "five-star" airlines hype their service and quality, when they dont deliver it makes them look all the worse. With EI you get hospitality and caring, there are not too many frills, and the entertainment systems may not be the most advanced, but there is comfort safety and a decent fare.

Without meaning any disrespect - in the last 12 months, I have flown on QF, BA, CX, AY, FR, EI, AA, SAS and Icelandair in both Business and Economy.

The crews on EI aren't bad, but they are not in the same league as QF, BA, CX and AY. On EI, they do their job, not more, not less. They range from somewhat interested, to completely disinterested. On the other airlines, they are attentive, chatty, happy to have a laugh, and just overall seem to have a better attitude.

Also, the check-in staff at DUB range from superb, to unbelievably stupid - "No, we can't check your bags on your next sector with BA - we don't do that"... erm hello, same alliance! Contrasting with another time when I didn't ask and she offered to check them through for me. Big difference in service standards, and it shouldn't happen.

I will agree - EI are comfortable, safe and the fares are very reasonable - but the "5 star" airlines have those reputations for the very reason that they are head and shoulders above the rest.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26848 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5882 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 15):
I'm sorry Brian, but it just doesn't make sense to fly 120 miles west in order to fly east. I'd certainly choose AMS over a flight that went in the wrong direction. Why should EI have to do this, when all that it takes is a few hundred feet of runway

I agree Kaitak its totally crazy to do that but with DAA I wouldnt put anything past them. Someone needs a kick up the arse . Its like a dictatorship they are hijacking the whole countries development and prosperity because they wont get the tarmac machines out!!!

I think its a Irish kind of thing. No offence but its like the Broadband here which I still cant get because Eircom have been saying for the last 3 years that they are going to lay new cable. Ive been waiting since August for a telephone line !!!


User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

We always seem to blame the DAA for everything... I think the fault for most of the problems is the dithering by various governments over the years.

Runway extension is not going to happen. It simply is not justifiable for a few flights a week, especially with a new runway on the way anyway.

Making a technical stop on the way really wouldn't be a big deal. It's NOT the same as having to connect in LHR, AMS, FRA etc.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5850 times:

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 18):
Making a technical stop on the way really wouldn't be a big deal. It's NOT the same as having to connect in LHR, AMS, FRA etc.

No, it's quite different... AC started having a tech stop after 9/11 in HNL on the way to YVR from SYD. It was one hour all up. They did it as pax didn't like having to go through US security for a transit stop. One hour. Not so bad.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26848 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 19):
No, it's quite different... AC started having a tech stop after 9/11 in HNL on the way to YVR from SYD. It was one hour all up. They did it as pax didn't like having to go through US security for a transit stop. One hour. Not so bad.

Yeah I agree with that also but DUB is the capital of the nation not SNN so they should both be equal length and when this SNN stopover finally dies DUB will be the only long haul airport in the Republic!!! Why wait til the last minute , do it NOW


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5840 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
Yeah I agree with that also but DUB is the capital of the nation not SNN so they should both be equal length and when this SNN stopover finally dies DUB will be the only long haul airport in the Republic!!! Why wait til the last minute , do it NOW

I agree with you 100% of course - a tech stop or whatever is hardly an efficient use of resources. It's only extending a runway - you'd think it was rocket science the way people carry on about it.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3916 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5814 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 15):
I'm sorry Brian, but it just doesn't make sense to fly 120 miles west in order to fly east. I'd certainly choose AMS over a flight that went in the wrong direction. Why should EI have to do this, when all that it takes is a few hundred feet of runway; it's not a question of "suggesting to" or "asking" the DAA now; it's a question of "informing them of their decision to do so". Or else.

I fully realise that its bonkers and off the wall, and I also realise that the 330 wouldn't really have the legs for BKK/HKG, etc. So this is a largely academic discussion here. What I Will say is this. There are many people who connect through CDG/LHR/AMS to go to the states. Now there are various reasons for this, but it does happen, so going west before going east is merely a reversal of what we've already been doing for years!

Im sure Ill be slated for this but anyways, Im curious so I had a dig around to see what the performance of the 777/340 might be like out of DUB. Boeing have a nice few graphs and such for 777 performance. So I got out my ruler and off I went. (Plus Im basing assumptions on 0/28: 2,637m, Im making the dangerous assumption that they actually know the length of their runways! boggled  Wink

My other assumption is that the 777-200 "High Gross Weight Model" Is the 777-200ER? and that DUB is at sea level, pretty close, theres no wind either and temp at STD+15 C)

Were talking somewhere in the region of about 520,000 pounds gross weight
which translates into ~7750 nautical miles.
SIN ~6968 nautical Miles
BKK ~6144 Nautical Miles
HKG ~6120 Nautical Miles

Im not too sure about payload but it appears to be in the 300000 pounds range. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the 777 could do a better job than I have, but I think its more likely to be optimistic than realistic, but we'll see. Interestingly the 7772LR would ahve about 100,000 pounds extra of payload under the same condtions and distances.

Plus there are winds, air traffic control and a whole load of other variables to be taken into account, most of whih I havent the slightest idea of!

Unfortunately Airbus does not have such info on its website that I can see.

In short if EI wanted to go seriously east from DUB they could,but they would need the -200LR for relaible operations, IFE, and most importantly a decent payload. I suppose it could work though, 777-200ERs for the t/a ops and LR's for farther afield.

Brian
__________________________________________________________________
Data from: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/777.htm
http://gc.kls2.com/
http://www.dublinairport.com/about-us/media-centre/facts-figures.html



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineRineanna From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
and when this SNN stopover finally dies DUB will be the only long haul airport in the Republic!!!

Not if Ulrick McEvaddy has his way at Knock: http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0114/knock.html

Plus, I do believe EI promised that they'd keep one daily flight to JFK and Boston at SNN regardless of the state of the o/s.

On another note, no wonder we're flying through the threads; This one's been open an hour or so and were already up to 23 posts!!!!!!Not that I'm complaining  biggrin   bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26848 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting Rineanna (Reply 23):
Plus, I do believe EI promised that they'd keep one daily flight to JFK and Boston at SNN regardless of the state of the o/s.

Ok but what happens when eveyone wants the direct flight and because of it the one that stops in SNN doesnt fill up ?? They will be forced to drop the SNN stop. It may not be a problem in high season but in low season it may become an issue. SNN may become a summer route only. I know it sounds a bit off the wall but if we went back 10 years and talked about whats happening today no one would believe us either. I see SNN as a LCC airport in future and charters for Irish tourists to the Canaries etc....


25 Kaitak : You may well be right (about its likelihood), but those "few flights a week" are to very important new markets - markets which the govt is apparently
26 Planemanofnz : Look, I hardly think it is worth mentioning CIA for EI. That is just ridiculous. Two things : 1.) This is a SHORT haul flight. Not a LONG haul flight
27 JWMD123 : DAA looks at Birmingham stake sale January 15, 2007 11:31 The Dublin Airport Authority is to look at selling its stake in Birmingham International Air
28 Post contains images EIBoston : What would the DAA do with proceeds of such a deal? ( extend a certain runway maybe) What became of the Cork Airport debt issue? Last thing I remembe
29 Poitin : I agree the root issue is the government is run by a bunch of fools. The DAA is a product of that. Kaitak has the reply NAILED below. You cannot just
30 Al2637 : Well, a technical stop prob wouldn't even show on a schedules as being so. PAX would prob not even know the difference. I do agree, in an ideal world
31 BrianDromey : Fine, EI current aircraft are not at the races. I accecpt that. But they are taking step in that direction to improve them and re-fit them. Remember
32 Smokeyrosco : I travel to the US at least twice a year and I pay extra or change my dates just to make sure I don't have to stop at SNN going over and coming back,
33 Smokeyrosco : I pick no. 3, but somehow I think your numbers may be off, I know DL operated a restricted payload on a T7 out of DUB to ATL and that is 3938 miles.
34 Poitin : They will notice, trust me. Cargo would not, but the pax tend to look out the windows and would notice. True, it should have been done 10 years ago.
35 Post contains links Danny : Brian, According to: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/777.htm Even 772LR needs over 10,000 for take of a MTOW. To take off from DUB you would
36 Smokeyrosco : Actually we did pretty well last year
37 BrianDromey : I know that, and it is stated in the above posts.... So unfortunatley the 777 is restricted from DUB: Atlhough Smokeyrosco has stated that DL's 777s
38 Post contains links Kaitak : Delta used MD11s out of DUB a few years back, before they used 777s. I do recall DL saying, around the time the runway length was first announced, bac
39 Post contains links OA260 : ATH ??? It is the most cleanest and modern airport in Europe !!! Makes Dublin look like Kabul!!! www.aia.gr TLV and CAI however I will agree with you
40 Post contains images Shamrock350 : I really think Aer Lingus need to announce an aircraft order, sort out the long-haul product and then announce new routes. The first step in upgrading
41 Post contains images Al2637 : But isn't it the government which dithered for 2 years and then restricted the capacity of T2??? Can't blame the DAA for that!!! What I'd like to see
42 Shamrock350 : So isn't it better to start now than wait any longer? They better hurry up. I can see a lot of A330 orders and A350 orders running up to the Paris Ai
43 Smokeyrosco : Correct but on the other hand the people that are suppose to be experts in the field of aviation in Ireland never mind Dublin is the DAA (or you can
44 Post contains links Kaitak : Good point, Shamrock 350; I forgot about the Paris Air Show; that's going to a particularly important and interesting show this year and frankly, if
45 Planemanofnz : You said EI should operate the route and EI only have A330' for long haul. The A330 is the ONLY aircraft they have at the moment and have ordered for
46 Al2637 : Kaitak, the reality is, things are just not that simple. I don't believe the government can exert pressure like that without being accused of interfer
47 Kaitak : I agree it is a very blunt instrument; maybe we'll have to settle for "half throttle". It just feels so very wrong that we should be forced to do so b
48 ClassicLover : I am still picking up my jaw off the floor... patriotism is all well and good, and I certainly applaud it - but what? EI is nowhere near the standard
49 BrianDromey : I stated that the 330 might struggle with Asia from DUB, I never precluded EI from operating another type. Just becasue they dont have suitable a/c at
50 Aerarann : Aer Arann Fly LBA - ORK , 4 Times Weekly, Including Friday Evening At 1610
51 BrianDromey : Yeup, and It would be great if I wasn't in lectures till 5 on a Friday! I really need a 19:00 departure! If people are visiting me they usually use t
52 Post contains images Smokeyrosco : I think we heard you the first time Anyway you did say to be fair.
53 Rineanna : Were BMI regional's timings any bit better before they pulled the route? How is the route performing for RE, from your experience on the route?[Edite
54 Tonymctigue : Explain to me why that is a good thing? I am a strong supporter of SNN but I admit that the SNN stopover is unfair to both DUB & ORK & it was always
55 BrianDromey : Sorry, I should ahve said evening/night. It used to be much earlier, things are getting better! To answer your question BMI used to fly it as the fir
56 Post contains images Rineanna : With or without the o/s, SNN will, I'm sure, keep at least one daily service to both BOS and JFK. A couple of posts ago, I mentioned the promise EI m
57 Post contains images Planemanofnz : Don't get me wrong Kaitak, EI are good. They are fantastic compared to the likes of airlines like FR and U2 but they just aren't in the same field as
58 OA260 : Yes and the SNN stopover is annoying alot of people on the East coast. SNN was a ''Free trade zone'' tax right offs to US companies, alot of whom now
59 Tonymctigue : This is exactly my point. As much of a benefit the stopover has been to SNN, it was obvious it could never last & people in the West knew that from w
60 Toulouse : Planemanofnz, may I ask how often you fly intra European flights? I do agree that EI are fantastic compared to FR and U2, no comparison whatsoever in
61 Bx737 : You certainly won't get flamed by me Toulouse, I agree with you, especially for short haul. IFE is expensive to install and operate. IIRC FR had hand
62 Pilot21 : 1 much cheaper and simple option for DUB to get a better runway length for those 'few' flights that need them would be a displaced threshold, probably
63 Toulouse : Phew, thanks Bx737! Glad to see I'm not alone! Exactly what I think as well Pilot21. As far as I'm concerned (and I know a lot of this is down to per
64 OA260 : Well I dont know where your sources where flying to but I have done 6 LX flights from DUB in the last 10 months and I have to say they are now one of
65 Toulouse : Just from things I've heard over the internet, I think the main reason is that people who were used to the old SR miss it, and to be honest everythin
66 Kaitak : Personally, I think EI is a better airline than it has ever been since it went low cost on short haul. I've only ever flown the A330s on domestic flig
67 EIBoston : I left the Gold Circle. Like you Toulouse, I had too many problems with trips not being recorded. I tried to sort it out with them but to no avail. I
68 OA260 : No I didnt , whats it all about ??? I too have fallen in love with Switzerland and its people. They are very nice and Zurich is an amazing city. I ca
69 Post contains links Toulouse : Very sad... wow the way things have changes in such a short time. Oh I'm sure I will. I can't wait. Will be doing some business in Basle (which I've
70 Smokeyrosco : My position on SNN is much the same, I think the government should implement proper infrastructure between sligo/Mayo all the way down to Cork and Ke
71 Dstc47 : EI have a problem with their service culture. Their past image, particularly overseas, was a caring and friendly one, rather damaged recently by contr
72 Post contains images Pilot21 : Going back to our favourite topic - EI and their new fleet. Another thread on the board discussing the recent A330F orders mentions from 1 poster that
73 Bx737 : Believe it or not crew do actually do something while you are boarding. All boarding cards must be checked for security purposes, we are required to
74 ABC9 : Could someone either give me an explanation or direct me towards one about what is proposed to alleviate flight congestion in Dublin, and why FR have
75 ThrottleHold : Basically, the DAA wants to re-introduce slot control for departures and arrivals. Just like other major airports. This way it's not a free for all a
76 Pilot21 : In a nutshell, up until now, any airline with rights to serve DUB could basically submit a landing and take off time, and provided there was ground s
77 Abrelosojos : Ok, can someone tell me the details origin of the SNN rule and who it applies to? I know to fly to DUB you have to fly to SNN - is this only applicabl
78 Post contains links Poitin : Real big time, we are: 7.5 million visitors -- as estimated by ITIC, but where did they go? Dublin. The actual bednight counts for most of the countr
79 ABC9 : Thanks Throttlehold, but excuse my ignorance here - how does slot control work ? As the largest operators in DUB, I'd assume EI and FR would get the
80 Post contains images Shamrock350 : I dont think there is any point talking about the poor service Aer Lingus has on long-haul and even short-haul. Aer Lingus has a low cost rival which
81 BrianDromey : This is my experience as well. In fact I have had a few words with EI cabin crew on boarding at times, and as well while Im leaving. Ive certainly ne
82 Post contains images Kaitak : Just thinking about that again, Shamrock350, I thought I'd put a few thoughts together. I guess my thinking would be that EI will be the last major E
83 AerArann : Does anyone have any idea of loads on the WW flights from ORK - BHX/MAN WW fares seem quite high for the next few days, and im curious ever since RE d
84 Post contains images ClassicLover : EI are certainly good compared to FR - however the FR crews tend to be a lot nicer - just more annoying as they peddle crap up and down the aisle. Wi
85 Post contains links and images Bx737 : Thanks Pilot21 for that info about the slots. It was very informative and interesting. Poitin, I have to say that I found your post about the incoming
86 Shamrock350 : I can see what you're saying Kaitak and I was also unsure of LH-loco. I wasn't happy that Aer Lingus went loco on short-haul but it's proven itself an
87 Post contains images BrianDromey : Im guseeing you mean 2-3-2 in Y+! Otherwise its a pretty rotten config for most! Last time on runway here, I think that the 777-200ER can do Asia, bu
88 Poitin : There is no reason why you can't sell the tourist class pax meal upgrades as well as entertainment upgrades on LH loco if you do it right. You can ha
89 Toulouse : I know a few personnally and of course get on great with them. I have so far managed to avoid actually flying with FR, but from what family, friends
90 Planemanofnz : Agree with you 100% I think the SNN stopover has damaged the reputation of the greater SNN area as a tourist area. I say this because when travellers
91 Smokeyrosco : Ok I could be here all day going through this, my father is in the industry and has been one way or another all his life, but I'll break it down quic
92 OA260 : EI's best plan would be as follows :: 787's with J 2x2 lie flat config / Y+ 2 2 2 / Y 2 4 2 All with IFE on demand like the one on US. Pre pay in Y an
93 EI321 : Its hardly a major european airline. And what will they do thats different to the current govt? FG havd been in power before and I cant name anything
94 Tonymctigue : I agree totally with both these points. Let's face it, the catchement area of SNN needs to be increased. I would love to see statistics of the number
95 Planemanofnz : I believe the only two are DUB and LHR. Whilst FR have a big base at SNN, EI could use SNN as a connecting point for PAX travelling between Europe/UK
96 Kaitak : Many years ago, Aer Rianta had this idea called Atlantic Express, whereby SNN would become a transatlantic hub. I don't think they were serious about
97 Toulouse : Oh come on. I don't find it low cost, cheap or tacky. Since it's not plastered along the whole fuselage, which would be tacky, it's fine. A bit of go
98 Poitin : Well, maybe they realize their money is better spent in France. That may be the case, as the ITIC numbers suggest it. Glad to hear they are active so
99 Post contains links EI787 : A new hotel is to be built at Dublin Airport: And Cork is getting a new Control tower! http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=CWSNMHIDEYKF
100 Shamrock350 : Good news for both Cork and Dublin. I've heard that FR is to pull out of ORK-LGW this year so I looked around and saw it on PPRUNE also. If you check
101 Kaitak : Sounds interesting; talking through my anorak hat (maybe that should be "hood"!), a hotel close to the terminal could allow a good view across the air
102 Post contains links Poitin : No, I disagree. A tourist is a tourist is a tourist, no matter where he or she may go. They rent cars, hotel rooms and eat meals. The average tourist
103 BestWestern : If I visit a park five times in a week they have five visits - Cant compare park admission to tourists. Not a hope. All European 'mainland' countries
104 Post contains links and images Shamrock350 : I noticed while at Heathrow last week that a few if not all Aer Lingus A321s have been repainted and with the new aerlingus.com logo they also bolder
105 Post contains images Planemanofnz : If EI want to be 'up there' with the best, and sometimes not even the best, they need to get rid of it from the A330 fleet. Do CX, SQ or MH have '.co
106 Post contains links Kaitak : BA is now said to be a matter of weeks away from a pretty large order for (more than likely) Boeings - and you can be sure that the 787 will figure pr
107 Smokeyrosco : ok, the tourist to population ratio and I think those figures will look a lot different, Ireland is almost 2:1 while france is just a little over 1:1
108 Post contains images Rineanna : The website is the first point of contact between the airline and its customers, and it should leave a good impression on all those who visit it to b
109 Danny : I don't think there is any link between population and tourism and this ration is irrelevant.
110 Post contains links Poitin : Most tourists go to places like the Magic Kingdom from far away, visit for a day, maybe two and then move on to other points of interest. Damn few vi
111 Shamrock350 : I think putting aerlingus.com on A330s looks nasty but EI is a low cost airline and if it wants to become a LH-loco airline then having the aerlingus.
112 Post contains links Kaitak : OK, guys, third time lucky with this message! Most of us are expecting an A350 or 787 order from EI, largely because EI has said this is the case. How
113 BrianDromey : I also think that the 777 would be the ideal tool for EI. The could do quite a lot with it in terms of destinations, cargo and cabin configurations.
114 Post contains links Kaitak : Yes, but that's not until 2013! Who knows that changes there will be in economics by then; maybe the 787-10 (even an -11, if it can be accommodated),
115 Planemanofnz : I thought the whole point of doing the interior upgrade to include PTV's and lie flat seats was not to try and be low cost, but to get more higher ye
116 OA260 : Yeah EI never had any good features that other airlines have on its web sites. I would like to see a virtual view of J and Y class on all A/C types l
117 Post contains links Poitin : There is just one little problem with the 777, Kaitak, and that is a fully loaded 777-300 requires almost 11000 feet of runway, and the 777-300 ER ev
118 BrianDromey : I think it depends what type of time-frame EI have for going east. If they want to do it in the next 12-18+ months the A330 or 777 are the only reali
119 Post contains links Shamrock350 : Ryanair arent happy about Aer Lingus and it's surcharge. I think it should be lowered and FR mention that Aer Lingus is taking advantage of it's long-
120 Kaitak : That's why I was wondering if the GE90-115 would be of any use; the 773ER would need a longer runway at MTOW, but I had the 773 marked down as an eas
121 BestWestern : I had the pleasure of ei-jfk this week Flight 2 hours late Seat recline wonky Reading light broken IFE screen wonky (no watchable picture) IFE radio c
122 Shamrock350 : Can't say I'm surprised with EI-JFK. Such a shame to hear about it but Aer Lingus are doing something to fix the problems like the new PTVs that Bx737
123 Poitin : Hey, just where do you buy these things? They are in hot demand. Maybe for a couple years they are hard to find and then maybe you can buy some used.
124 BrianDromey : Sounds about right! Its an interesting concept! I think that the DAA do need a fire like this lit under them. Im sure EI could make use of the 773 on
125 Post contains links Kaitak : More competition for EI on M/E routes: Etihad is said to be looking at a DUB route and a decision will be made within the next few weeks. This is an I
126 Kaitak : Just to add to the above, here's an extract from the IT: "One of the world's fastest-growing airlines may decide within weeks to begin direct flights
127 Pe@rson : When's the (next) A.net Irish Pub opening (making 1,642)?
128 BestWestern : One solution - EI acquires 5x752's - and bases them in SNN SNN-JFK x2 SNN-BOS x2 (1 in winter) SNN-ORD x1 This allows them to rationalise the 330 flee
129 AC747 : Hi Folks. My first time responding to the Irish Aviation threads......it's taken me this long because you guys can certainly get into some very detail
130 BrianDromey : Welcome to the Irish Aviation Threads! If anybody will feel teh pressure I guess it might be GF, they certainly have nowhere like the amount of cash
131 AC747 : Thanks for the welcome ! With EI's lack of interlining with EK through DXB and GF's position as based in the weaker of the three hubs (BAH), would tha
132 Shamrock350 : It's great that Etihad is heading for DUB. They are a great airline but Aer Lingus wont just sit back, they are as we all know improving cabins, updat
133 BrianDromey : No Id say yo're spot on. Also consider here that EY would have the best premium product on the route by miles, and if they sent a 3 class A330 to DUB
134 Shamrock350 : I can understand them not updating the A333s if they are always going tech but I have no idea why EI will not be updating the A332s with new Premier
135 EIBoston : Doubt if they could get 5 757's these days. Very popular aircraft of late. (even though the 757 line is closed in Seatle) That is assuming they would
136 AC747 : Narrow bodies across the Atlantic. Who'd have thought it would be so popular. I remember flying an American TransAir 757 into DUB from JFK in the mid
137 Kaitak : Welcome on board, AC747! I agree EY will certainly make life interesting and those A330s ... wow! GF has F Class to BAH; a very good product and seat
138 Post contains links and images EI787 : Etihad's A330 fleet seems to be quite irregular. A lot are on lease and the interior varies from aircraft to aircraft. Could EY use a 777 to DUB? Are
139 AC747 : Thanks for that. Nice to be here. Indeed I remember the Loftleider Icelandic 767. Iceland used to have a nice variety of off shoot airlines, like Arn
140 Shamrock350 : I have noticed that some of EY's A330s have the same problem Aer Lingus A330s have, no PTVs but that could all change very soon if the rumours and var
141 Poitin : You clearly understand all the pros and cons. However, given a 12000 foot runway at DUB, perhaps EI could build the Asia business. Right now, as I un
142 EI787 : I was just looking at where the EI A330's have been in January. I notice that EI-ORD hasn't flown a route since Jan 5th. Could it be in for refitting?
143 COEI2007 : I dont think theres any 757's out there, that would be in a reasonable condition. Any good 757's, would be hard to acquire, as EI would have to fight
144 Shamrock350 : Hopefully but that's a very long time to be out. I hope it isn't a tech problem. How long would refitting take for an A330?
145 AC747 : I'm with you on that. My perceptions may have changed over the years, but my preferences haven't. Given a choice to, say EWR , on a CO 757 or 767 out
146 Humberside : B757 - the DUB/SNN flight will be done with a GLA based aircraft as things stand
147 COEI2007 : We had Skyservice A330 to YYZ last summer aswell. Will that return? The MON A330 to SFB returns in June, but I think the TOM to CUN is gone.
148 Mccormk : Potin, there is 3 SQ flights Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday about 11pm (this one comes in from LHR). The flights dont go direct back to SIN they go CP
149 Post contains links Al2637 : Could EI use an A321 on SNN-BOS/JFK? http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/a321/performance.html
150 EI787 : Jesus, that's so weird...I was looking at the exact same page earlier today and the first thing that came into my head was "I wonder if EI could do t
151 BestWestern : SNN to the US is a very short segment, and the 330's are wasted on such short routes.... if the 320 could operate these segments - we may have a solut
152 EIBoston : I doubt it to be honest. Any head winds would leave the A32X very close to max out. Jet Blue have often got to make fuel stops going across America a
153 Kaitak : I just don't see EI going ETOPS with A320s (or 321s); yes, they're a good size, but the A330 can do the job and it can shift the volume. As I said bef
154 Al2637 : Is there year round demand from SNN for that much TA capacity? I mean without really killing yields, high density A330s may be too much plane? That's
155 Al2637 : One more thing, from an interview I saw with WW once, he said that when open skies came in, EI with base aircraft in JFK and BOS which would then serv
156 Bx737 : Just a quick one, according to Skyliner magazine (Jan/Feb 07) Flightline have taken over the MD83s used by Mapjet and are putting them on their AOC. T
157 COEI2007 : I've done BOS-SNN in 5 hrs, and EWR-DUB in 5hr30mins, so thats something that could be played around with. The only thing is, six t/a crossings in 2
158 Post contains images Poitin : Thank you, sir. It would be nice to see a direct DUB to SIN freight service on a EI 777-300 ER as Kaitak suggests, particularly if it was daily. Oh,
159 Post contains links EI787 : Knock Airport have outlined their position on the proposed use of the airfield for military activities: http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0120/knock.html?rs
160 Al2637 : Yea, but not from SNN. By basing aircraft in BOS and JFK, I guess they might also consider serving BFS a couple of times a week. If the A321 could ac
161 Post contains links Kaitak : OK, guys, I think 4/07 has run its course, so I have started 5/07; boarding is now open, First, Business and Coach! Clear The Way For The Flying Irish
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