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FT De: Airbus Has 40% Market Share  
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10876 times:

Just hit the wire:

Fare use extract:


Airbus Market Share Slumped Last Year, FT Deutschland Reports

By Patrick Donahue

Jan. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS lost 5 percentage points of market share last year, to 40 percent, because of less demand for the A330/340 and production problems, Financial Times Deutschland reported, citing unidentified industry officials.

The net number of aircraft sold in 2006 dropped to 800 from 1,055 in 2005 as Airbus booked list-price orders worth $75.1 billion, the newspaper reported. Market share in terms of the number of units dropped last year to 43 percent from 52 percent, FTD reported. With 1,044 unit sales, U.S. rival Boeing Co. surpassed Airbus for the first time in five years, FTD said.

Toulouse, France-based Airbus will present the figures Jan. 16 in Paris, the newspaper said.



-------------------

I thought they were reporting the 17th.

- n1786b

[Edited 2007-01-14 20:43:10]

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10848 times:

I thought this was going to be a thread about Air Berlin. I didn't realize Airbus was abbreviated AB by anyone.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10829 times:

Changed the subject line for you.

Sorry.

- n1786b


User currently offlineRpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10801 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
because of less demand for the A330/340 and production problems

Am I the only founding this statement misleading? The A340 had bad time against 777, but the A330 did pretty well. Production problem? For sure, but the biggest challenge for Airbus so far is not having a strong and consistent offer against the 787.

Regards,
Raphael


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10760 times:

From the Flight International Blog:

"Airbus and Boeing - it's that time of year and Airbus will hit 40%"

http://www.bizbuzzmedia.com/blogs/fl...ional/archive/2007/01/10/6270.aspx


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 959 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10700 times:

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 3):
Am I the only founding this statement misleading? The A340 had bad time against 777, but the A330 did pretty well.

As Airbus and Airbus Cheerleaders like to point out, the A330/A340 is a single production line. In sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer  Wink


User currently offlineRpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10651 times:

Well, whatever the "Cheerleaders" like to point, I still think it's a mistake. Maybe the A340 is toasted now, but Airbus lacks a killer in the twin widebody family. The best way to address a concern is to face it. Including for Cheerleaders Big grin

Regards,
Raphael


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10618 times:

Congratulations to Boeing for a great year. Airbus also had a very nice year for sales as well. Both added substantially to their backorder of aircraft which means more jobs, more stability, and more money to fund R&D for better products. Win / Win for everyone. I would imagine 2007 will have a much tighter race ending in a 50/50 now that it seems Airbus has their 350 program moving forward.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10598 times:

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 6):
Well, whatever the "Cheerleaders" like to point, I still think it's a mistake. Maybe the A340 is toasted now, but Airbus lacks a killer in the twin widebody family. The best way to address a concern is to face it. Including for Cheerleaders

 checkmark 
As fond as I am of Airbus, I try not to be a bimbo cheerleader. I can admit that the A340 is moribund and that the WhaleJet was a (very cool) mistake. In my opinion, Airbus need to certify new engines for the A330 -- without all the other development work they had proposed in order to improve its range. Don't go for range; go for low cost and early availability. That would tide things over until the A350 arrives.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12326 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10396 times:

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 6):
I still think it's a mistake. Maybe the A340 is toasted now, but Airbus lacks a killer in the twin widebody family.

No, it has a killer in the twin widebody family - the A330 killed the 767!  Smile



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10361 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
the A330 killed the 767!

The 767 won 10 orders in 2006.


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10321 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
The 767 won 10 orders in 2006.

Boeing is merely keeping that program on minimal life support until the military decides on it's tanker program.

For all intents and purposes it's dead for pax airframes.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30524 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10304 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
No, it has a killer in the twin widebody family - the A330 killed the 767!  Smile

At 342 sales (A332) to 264 (762/763/764), it's more like the A330 winged the 767 then killed it.  Wink


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10201 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
At 342 sales (A332) to 264 (762/763/764), it's more like the A330 winged the 767 then killed it.

Total 767 orders to date are 975, not 342.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30524 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10124 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Total 767 orders to date are 975, not 342.

Should have noted I was referring to sales since the A332 recorded it's first sale (02/1996).  Smile


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10076 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
A re-engined A330 would be a brilliant idea

What sort of engine re-work are you referring to? What sort of new engines could increase efficiency? Is this just A.netter's armchair discussion or is/has Airbus discussed a possible re-engined 330?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
I was referring to sales since the A332 recorded it's first sale (02/1996).

Back in the old days of airplane ordering, I think 342 airframes sold would be a solid showing. In the new age of buying 50 planes at a time (and selling almost 500 planes of a yet-to-be-built model), I guess 342 is not so great.

Still, I've said it many time on this site, the 767 is hands down the most comfortable plane to fly. Not too big, not too cramped feeling. Its a shame the airplane is falling out of fashion. Still, everyone who has one seems to be using it as much as he/she/it can.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30524 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10030 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 17):
What sort of engine re-work are you referring to? What sort of new engines could increase efficiency? Is this just A.netter's armchair discussion or is/has Airbus discussed a possible re-engined 330?

Both GE and RR were considering offering their 787 powerplants for the A330 family. GE, apparently, is still willing to do so. Not sure about RR.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 17):
Back in the old days of airplane ordering, I think 342 airframes sold would be a solid showing. In the new age of buying 50 planes at a time (and selling almost 500 planes of a yet-to-be-built model), I guess 342 is not so great.

It's not bad, but it is true that when you look at the 777 family, it has sold almost as many units (903) as the entire A330, A340 and A350 families combined (1095).

The A300 has been the most successful Airbus widebody to date, with 561 sales, but it has also been the model longest-offered for sale. And her sales, plus the A310s and the A332s combined (1165) are not too far ahead of the 767's total (975).


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10026 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 17):
What sort of engine re-work are you referring to? What sort of new engines could increase efficiency? Is this just A.netter's armchair discussion or is/has Airbus discussed a possible re-engined 330?

Airbus proposed updating the A330 with the engines for the 787 plus other changes designed to increase range, in an effort to compete head-to-head with the 787-8/9. I'm proposing only certification of the new engines to go after the mid-range market.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9873 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Airbus SAS lost 5 percentage points of market share last year, to 40 percent, because of less demand for the A330/340

That's very misleading. Less demand as compared to when? Airbus booked significantly more A330/340 orders in 2006 as compared to 2005.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
The A330 is getting by, not selling spectacularly, but it is selling, the only thing working well at Airbus is the A320, and it did not have a good year against the 737.

The A330 was the second best selling widebody aircraft last year. Behind the 787 and way ahead of the 777.

The 737 has likely sold more units in 2006 than the A320, but compared to the difference in units sold in 2005 between both models, it is rather small.

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
The net number of aircraft sold in 2006 dropped to 800 from 1,055 in 2005 as Airbus booked list-price orders worth $75.1 billion, the newspaper reported. Market share in terms of the number of units dropped last year to 43 percent from 52 percent, FTD reported. With 1,044 unit sales, U.S. rival Boeing Co. surpassed Airbus for the first time in five years, FTD said.

The number of aircraft sold dropped 9% and market share (dollar value) dropped 5%. Looking forward to see the breakdown of these net 800 orders. Airbus had 611 net firm orders at the start of december. So about 189 orders have been added in december. At the start of december Airbus marketshare was estimated at 36% by Mr. Leahy. Despite strong widebody sales of Boeing in december (LH, KE, Jet), Airbus managed to increase their marketshare with more than 11% in december.

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
I thought they were reporting the 17th.

On the 16th according to the article you posted. Last year it was the 17th.


Airbus' december orders (please complete)

LH 7 A346
AerCap 20 A330
QF 8 A380, 4 A330
SQ 9 A380, 19 A330 (leased)
Gruppo Marsans 12 A330
Pegasus 6 A330, 2 A350XWB
SALE 20 A32S
Interjet 10 A32S
Silkair 11 A32S
Israir 2 A32S

Total 43 NB + 87 WB = 130 (roughly 59 unacounted for)

[Edited 2007-01-15 04:47:48]


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User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9857 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 20):
That's very misleading. Less demand as compared to when? Airbus booked significantly more A330/340 orders in 2006 as compared to 2005.

Compared to your competition.

You don't determine market share by comparing Airbus 2005 to Airbus 2006. You compare it to Boeing.

Boeing sold 237 777s and 787s last year, therefore there's less demand for Airbus.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9801 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Boeing sold 237 777s and 787s last year, therefore there's less demand for Airbus.

For your convinience, why not adding those 10 767s aswell.  Yeah sure

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Compared to your competition.

It is still waiting for the official breakdown of these 800 firm orders, but we can already see that Airbus sold atleast 50% more A330/340 models in 2006 (status quo for the A340). Therefore there was NO less demand. The decrease of market value can not be blamed on slagging A330/340 sales. The decrease of market value is because of the delayed industrial launch of the A350XWB, leading to significant less sales (about 1/6) of airbus' next generation widebody aircraft and because of the big volumes sales of the pricy 748F. If anything, the A330/340 line has limited the damage.



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User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9776 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
Therefore there was NO less demand.

Maybe, maybe not. We would have to know that prices have held in order to reach that conclusion.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9910 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
Maybe, maybe not. We would have to know that prices have held in order to reach that conclusion.

Airbus is planning to increase the A330 output by 2 units a month. Airbus had to delay the launch of the A330F due to high demand for the passenger version. 37!!! airlines were competing to get their hands on Austrian's A330s. A product in demand (A330) is certain to be less discounted. So, yes, we can reach the conclusion, that the demand for the A330 was bigger in 2006.

Anyone able to complete the list of 189 orders?



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User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9880 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 26):
Airbus is planning to increase the A330 output by 2 units a month.

That is probably due in part to the cashflow crunch caused by the WhaleJet fiasco and the BAE payout.

Quoting Manni (Reply 26):
Airbus had to delay the launch of the A330F due to high demand for the passenger version. 37!!! airlines were competing to get their hands on Austrian's A330s. A product in demand (A330) is certain to be less discounted.

There is no question that demand for A330s is strong.

Quoting Manni (Reply 26):
So, yes, we can reach the conclusion, that the demand for the A330 was bigger in 2006.

No, we can't, because it may be the case that demand was even stronger in 2005. We don't know relative 2005 and 2006 prices. At least, I don't.

Quoting Manni (Reply 26):
Anyone able to complete the list of 189 orders?

Patience, my friend. We're just hours away from an official announcement.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9865 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 27):
Patience, my friend. We're just hours away from an official announcement.

True but it's always nice to speculate a bit.

Here's more, to play with...

Boeing booked 212 orders in december, 59 WB. Airbus booked 189 orders in december, so far 87 WB (if the report is correct), but increased market value by 11%. I suspect that a nice part of these 59 orders are for WB's.



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25 Zvezda : I hope so, but any order is a good order!
26 Post contains images BoomBoom : Thanks for the reminder, Boeing sold 246 767, 777, and 787s last year. That's why they have 60% of the market. Not if it's part of a compensation pac
27 Post contains images Manni : Of the 110 A330/340 orders knwon so far, 9 A330s have possibly been ordered due to the delayed A380. Additionally SQ has decided to lease 19 A330s wh
28 Post contains images Zvezda : That's just a small part of the A330 orders. 19 for SQ and ??? The 5000th member of the A320 family will surely be sold this year. I'm confident they
29 DfwRevolution : Speaking of which: with the 737 program resting at 6,800 orders at the end of 2006, Boeing will likely hit 7,000 orders by mid-2007.
30 N328KF : Only thing is -- I believe many of the 737 orders (eg. AA) are, for all intents and purposes, reserved Y1 slots that will never be filled as a 737.
31 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Which market are we comparing? Is it just Boeing and Airbus' market, or are we talking about the whole airplane market? If that is the case, Boeing c
32 Post contains images Zvezda : In all fairness to Airbus, one can't count the rope-start 737s together with the 737NGs as they are not really in the same family. On the other hand,
33 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Okay, thanks for clearing up! Cheers!
34 Post contains links BoomBoom : It seems to have been offered to others. I guess we'll have to wait until January 17, to see who bought what. Thai Airways still in talks over Airbus
35 SEPilot : In fairness to Boeing, I believe the rope-start 737's are considered by all governing agencies to be in the same family as the 737-NG's (I flew on an
36 Manni : This has no effect on the 110 A330/340 orders placed in 2006, which are being discussed here. Therefore you previous comment remains limited to possi
37 BoomBoom : That's not very limited, is it?
38 Post contains links Zeke : My german is not that good, I think something was lost in the translation http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/industrie/150444.html I am sure they will loo
39 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : As Airbus have now released their sales data for 2006 and a proper breakdown of their model sales is now known. Please continue the discussion, based
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