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B747-400 Without Left Winglet  
User currently offlineLu From China, joined Aug 1999, 175 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12853 times:

Air China B747-400(B-2447),whose left winglet was cut while colliding with a Delta jet in JFK last week continued flying back base in Beijing from JFK with few load. Then it run the scheduled flight between Beijing and Frankfurt.

I am wondering wheather B747-400 without one winglet can fly. Is it safe for flying under FAA regulation?

Here pics

http://bbs.feeeco.com/upload/20070112/200701120142354233.jpg

http://bbs.feeeco.com/upload/20070112/200701120144586833.jpg

Lu

[Edited 2007-01-15 06:35:26]

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12852 times:

yes the a/c can operate without a winglet. there are restrictions however.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12138 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12820 times:

There is an approved temp. repair for most airplane that have winglets, to fly with one, or both removed. You do have to retrim the airplane to do it. I seem to remember a KLM B-747-400 was flying around for about 6 months with only one winglet, about 10-12 years ago.

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12759 times:

Perfectly safe. Here's a cut and paste from the MEL/CDL.


CDL Number: 57-28-1
Item: Winglets [P]*
Model: All
No. Installed: 2
Requirements:
One may be missing provided the performance limited weights are reduced by the following:
Takeoff Enroute Climb Landing
9435 kg 4536 kg 9435 kg
Apply fuel penalty of 2.5% to the entire mission fuel.

NOTE: If a winglet is removed, the affected winglet fairings except the leading edge wingtip fairing Part Number 118U0010 and the trailing edge wingtip fairing Part Number 118U0030 must be removed. The forward facing opening in the trailing edge wingtip fairing must be covered (e.g. sped tape).


If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.


User currently offlineFlyingPie946LJ From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12634 times:

hah that's interesting, I'd imagine it'd be breaking some sort of rules by flying with one winglet.

User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12129 times:

Quoting FlyingPie946LJ (Reply 4):
hah that's interesting, I'd imagine it'd be breaking some sort of rules by flying with one winglet.

You'd be amazed with amount of items you can fly around with having one or zero required for dispatch.


User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

Air Canada have run 747-400s without a winglet too


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Hemmings



Also the A340-300 has been known to operate with a winglet missing!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Hemmings



Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.

Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10642 times:

744Ds don't come with winglets at all so I would imagine they don't appear on the MEL for that airframe.  Smile

NS


User currently offlineNecigrad From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9017 times:

Thats a huge penalty. Over 9000 kilos in weight and then 2.5% extra burn on top of that!

User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8901 times:

Anyone know the MTOW for the CX 744's? to my reference it is 850,000Lbs but that is a little low for the PEK-JFK flights to be operated under a profitable basis. So do they have 870,000Lbs or 875,000Lbs MTOW option?

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8838 times:

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 7):
Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 7):
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.

Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
744Ds don't come with winglets at all

JL and NH 744D's also don't have the wingtip extensions of other 744s, making their wingspan approximately 16 feet less (the same as 741/742/743). The extra weight of the extensions and winglets serve no purpose when flight durations are mostly 1 to 2 hours with much of the fllight spent climbing and desending and not much at cruise altitude. The extensions and winglets can be added should the aircraft be transferred to longhaul service.


User currently offlineRdwelch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8717 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
JL and NH 744D's also don't have the wingtip extensions of other 744s, making their wingspan approximately 16 feet less (the same as 741/742/743). The extra weight of the extensions and winglets serve no purpose when flight durations are mostly 1 to 2 hours with much of the fllight spent climbing and desending and not much at cruise altitude. The extensions and winglets can be added should the aircraft be transferred to longhaul service.

Great point.

Gus.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8282 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 10):
Anyone know the MTOW for the CX 744's? to my reference it is 850,000Lbs but that is a little low for the PEK-JFK flights to be operated under a profitable basis. So do they have 870,000Lbs or 875,000Lbs MTOW option?

Sorry I mean the CA MTOW not CX



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineMCIFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7919 times:

Am I the only person to notice the predominance of left winglets missing in these and similar photos? A search of 744s turned up only one or two photos of right winglets missing, whereas the rest of the aircraft missing a single winglet were missing their port side winglet.

Can anyone speculate why this is so? Are left-wing collisions more common than right-wing? Is it due to more push-backs or taxiing activities exposing the port winglet to potential collision?

Yes, I realize this post is about left winglets...but let us not discriminate against our starboard brothers!  scratchchin 


User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Quoting MCIFlyer (Reply 14):
Am I the only person to notice the predominance of left winglets missing in these and similar photos?



Quoting MCIFlyer (Reply 14):
Can anyone speculate why this is so?

Left winglets fetch more at the pawn shop than right winglets...?  Wink


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