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Airbus To Build A320 Completely In Hamburg  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Hello

http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsi...D=d7d6516e81332d92803e3433b7915910

«La Tribune» :French :

http://www.latribune.fr/info/Recentr...Economie-$SubChannel=International

Sorry just in German

///////PARIS (dpa, aero.de) - Die neue Generation der A320-Familie von Airbus soll laut einem Bericht der französischen Wirtschaftszeitung «La Tribune» nur noch an einem Standort gebaut werden. Dies habe Airbus-Chef Louis Gallois kürzlich den französischen Gewerkschaften mitgeteilt. Die Produktion des Mittelstreckenflugzeuges dürfte dann ganz in Hamburg angesiedelt werden, berichtete das Blatt ohne nähere Quellen. Im Gegenzug solle die gesamte Produktion von Großraumflugzeugen in "sehr strikter Trennung" in Toulouse konzentriert werden.////////

1: The New generation of 320s will be built completely in Hamburg.

2: All the LR A/Cs will be built just in Toulouse.

To my opinion this would be bad for Toulouse as the 320 makes half of the sales.

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1870 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10402 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
To my opinion this would be bad for Toulouse as the 320 makes half of the sales.

Bad in the short run, good in the long run. It would be more effective to have one plant dedicated to narrow body aircraft, and the other to wide body ones. This way Toulouse plant can be optimized for A380 and A350 lines - especially the A350, once the project starts proceeding on full speed.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10400 times:

Good news for the Hamburg crew......


"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10395 times:

I think it makes sense. As the A-320 is selling relatively well compared to the A-318, 319 and 321 and within a few years there will be multiple wide body lines running in Toulouse; the A-300 line might be extended, the A-330(340) and A-380 are or will be in full steam in 2-3 years and a few years later the A-350 will be added. So without changes, Toulouses output would grow disproportionally compared to Hamburg.
And don't forget it's just final assembly, the factories who make critical parts like the wings might actually make more product/revenue then the factory who just slaps the parts together. Toulouse might be compensated by doing some more part work for the A-320 line.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCardiffairtaxi From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10386 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):

Are the wings still going to be built at Chester,UK?


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10356 times:

Business wise it makes sense, but all the hassle about the Muehlenberger Loch and the runway expansion at Finkenwerder was for nothing...

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 2):
Good news for the Hamburg crew......

They think differently - at least from what I've heard last year as the media already speculted about this.

pelican


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10315 times:

Quoting Cardiffairtaxi (Reply 4):

Are the wings still going to be built at Chester,UK?

I presume , this is just the final assembly .


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10273 times:

Wasn't Streiff fired for suggesting this? It makes perfect sense that they do it, but what happened to the politics? Are they really settled?

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10254 times:

Thanks for some 'hard news', LHStarAlliance.

Wasn't this one of the things that Christian Streiff suggested? And got fired for?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10200 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
Thanks for some 'hard news', LHStarAlliance.

 Wink

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
Wasn't this one of the things that Christian Streiff suggested? And got fired for?

Well as far as I know Streiff went voluntary to Peugot-Citroen .


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

Thats good news. Frees up room to build the A340/330 at Toulouse or build more planes per year there.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10060 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 9):
Wasn't this one of the things that Christian Streiff suggested? And got fired for?

Well as far as I know Streiff went voluntary to Peugot-Citroen .

Absolutely!  sarcastic 


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10037 times:

Quote:
PARIS (AP)--Xavier Petrachi, an official of one of France's largest labor unions the CGT said Monday that a report in the daily La Tribune that Airbus wants to locate production of its future single-aisle aircraft solelyin Hamburg would be "brutal" news, but said it has to be taken cautiously.

According to the newspaper report citing union sources, Louis Gallois, chief executive of both Airbus and the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co. NV has told union representatives that it is unlikely there will be more than one assembly line for the successor to Airbus's successful A320 family of short-to-medium haul jets. Such a decision would fit in with the company's plan to cut costs by EUR2 billion a year by 2010...

..."It would be hard to imagine that the future A320 will be built at Hamburg without some sort of compensation for Toulouse," Petrachi said...

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20070115-704586.html


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9998 times:

Now the question is :

Is it better for a Airbus Assembly to build the more prestigious 350-380-330...

Or build the best seller 320 and 321 319 318 .


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6832 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9983 times:

Don't tell me that sanity has overruled politics!!!!! What are we all going to do????


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9972 times:

Quote:
...his first move, expected to be announced by the end of February, will be to shift manufacture of all large aircraft to its Toulouse headquarters, with smaller 'narrow body' jet production being consolidated at Hamburg, Germany.

The move is a precursor to a larger reorganisation that could see up to half of Airbus's 15 European plants sold off, with thousands of job losses among the 55,000-strong workforce.

A shift of large aircraft from Hamburg will be highly controversial and cut across intense national rivalries at the pan-European group. Forgeard caused fury in Germany last summer when he appeared to blame the Hamburg plant for some of the delay to the A380 programme.

'There is an argument raging between the company and the German government about this,' said one source.

The state government of Hamburg has supported the A380, and is one of a number of German states which want to invest in Airbus, buying a 7.5 per cent stake in the company being sold by current shareholder Daimler Chrysler.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1989722,00.html


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9936 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13):
Now the question is :

Is it better for a Airbus Assembly to build the more prestigious 350-380-330...

Thats what i'm wondering.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13):
Is it better for a Airbus Assembly to build the more prestigious 350-380-330...

Or build the best seller 320 and 321 319 318 .

TAKE THE MONEY! (A320 family).


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9792 times:

It seems this is still up in the air:

Quote:
Xavier Petrachi, an official of one of France's largest labor unions the CGT said Monday that a report in the daily La Tribune that Airbus wants to locate production of its future single-aisle aircraft solely in Hamburg would be "brutal" news, but said it has to be taken cautiously.

An Airbus spokeswoman said Monday that details of the Power8 cost-cutting and rationalization plan are still being worked out, and that they won't be made public for some weeks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...115-704586.html?mod=moj_industries


User currently offlineGbfra From Germany, joined Sep 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

Normal procedure, I dare say. The company leaks information to prepare workers, unions and the public opinion.


The fundamental things apply as time goes by
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30567 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9743 times:
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So it sounds like the desire is to move A320 production to XFW so that the entire family can be built in one location, but it's still being hashed out with the unions.

Not sure how Airbus' union's are organized, but if they're anything like US ones, I imagine the German A380 workers are the most senior and highest-paid. If they transition directly to A320 work, how will they be integrated into the less-senior A318/A319/A321 teams and how will their higher wages affect both production costs of the A320 and put pressure to raise the wages of the A318/A319/A321 workers?

And will all the French A320 workers get a pay-raise and seniority bump when they move to the A380 program? I imagine the former would smooth over any misgivings about losing the A320...  Wink


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9711 times:

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 19):
Normal procedure, I dare say. The company leaks information to prepare workers, unions and the public opinion.

I agree. Should be interesting to watch the dancing.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 2):
Good news for the Hamburg crew......

I don´t know ... They´ll lose the 340 , 330 , 380 ( Cabin )

And become the 320 . At least it´s the best seller


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9702 times:

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 19):
Normal procedure, I dare say. The company leaks information to prepare workers, unions and the public opinion.

But aren't the unions in France much more powerful and militant?

It ain't implemented until it's implemented.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 23):
But aren't the unions in France much more powerful and militant?

Well in Germany they are very powerful , I think in France also .


25 JAAlbert : So Hamburg destroyed an ecologically sensitive marshland to expand its runway to accomodate the 380 only to find that the 380 will no longer be manufa
26 N328KF : Well, I'm not sure about France, but in Germany, unions get seats on the board of directors! Talk about not keeping the interests of shareholders at
27 Mohavewolfpup : I thought they were going to build it in the town that required them to bring the barrels through the town at retarded speeds so the buildings aren't
28 Lumberton : Well, not all of them. There is that A320 plant Airbus plans to build in China....
29 VANGUARD737 : Hmmmm....given this - can we assume that Hamburg will LOSE its share of the A380? If so, I wouldn't be too thrilled if I worked at Hamburg. Sounds lik
30 GRIVely : My questions revolve around how much more of a delay all of these major organizational changes are going to inflict on the overall Airbust380 project?
31 ZSOFN : About time! Building the A320 in TLS never seemed to make much sense. Was this initially a political move when the A32x was a much-touted new product
32 Pelican : I wonder whether this will have any legal consequences after the endless law suit? The stockholders have always a majority (exception are mining/stee
33 Post contains images Zvezda : Perhaps looking at which side got the money and which side got the status might provide a clue. This has to be one of the dumbest laws on the planet.
34 Rheinbote : Right, for the time being it's a (strong) proposal. Depends on what phrases like "The new generation of 320s will be built completely in Hamburg" mea
35 Post contains images Pelican : But doesn't the article say that the manufacturing of wide bodies will be concentrated in Toulouse? I didn't get the impression that it has hurt Germ
36 Rheinbote : Yes, 320NG in XFW and 350 in TLS.
37 Zvezda : Germany has one of the slowest growing (effectively stagnant) economies in the world. This is one of the reasons why.
38 Pelican : Okay, I see. Whatever a 320NG is... I mean there isn't anything official, is there? pelican
39 Gbfra : Don't forget that neither EADS nor Airbus are German companies! EADS is a Dutch company, Airbus is a French one. Therefore the German model does not
40 LHStarAlliance : Well this will be the problem for them , the regional will be the worst problem as they have much interest you can see it with the last stock buy of
41 Pelican : Ever looked on the most recent figures? Employee participation plays a marginal role at best (or worst here). The German industry is in relative good
42 Post contains links LHStarAlliance : Yeah , Any other country in the world exports as much as Germany , Germany is world Champion in exports . Also Germany is the 3 richest country in th
43 Zvezda : Relative to what? North Korea? Somalia? That's not an indicator of economic health. It's easy to boost exports at the expense of the economy. Of cour
44 Atmx2000 : In some ways relative to the rest of Europe. I wouldn't say that. However, German "exports" have grown significantly to other EU countries. What I th
45 Breiz : Information was not "leaked" to unions and workers, but: That's look to me what "normal procedure" should be, tell the employees first.
46 Post contains links LHStarAlliance : Common is this Germany bash ? Or what? It´s a Fact that Germany is Export World Champion and that German Companies never have earned so much . The P
47 LHStarAlliance : That´s it countries like Italy or France can no compete more with Germany . At the end this is bad for Germany as they are buyers for German product
48 Zvezda : I'm not trying to bash anyone. I just pointed out the extreme stupidity of one particular law and people start trying to hold up Germany as a shining
49 BoomBoom : And after it's implemented recalcitrant bureaucrats will try to sabotage it.
50 Post contains images Astuteman : When you get back to our world, you'll have to let us know how that's done . 10% per capita annual growth is totally unsustainable in a developed eco
51 Ruscoe : My question is: Can Hamburg produce enough 320's, or are we going to see French support for an enhancement of 320 production in China, at the expense
52 Zvezda : Simple, cut taxes and government spending to below 5% of GDP.
53 Stitch : Does anyone know how many planes XFW currently builds and how many TLS does? And is the production ramp-up of the A320 family to 36 per month spread
54 Post contains links Dougloid : Well, what that means is that you didn't read the whole report....that would be the WTO World Trade In Overview, 2005 report that they publish. It is
55 TheSonntag : Your data is outdated. Germany's unemployment rate declined by 1 million people last year. Structural reforms took some time to be implemented, but t
56 Post contains images Zvezda : That much we can agree on. Building the A320s at TLS and the A319s and A321s at XFW is irrational.
57 Viscount724 : If not mistaken, the A380 was never going to be manufactured in Hamburg, only flown there after assembly for interior installation and other fitting
58 Post contains links Lumberton : This report on Airwise suggests the French unions aren't too happy about this prospect: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1168901444.html Gallois sti
59 Post contains images Pelican : Relative to the rest of the OECD. The German economy is competive. That doesn't mean isn't anything left to do. Neither does it mean Germany is at th
60 Dougloid : Not going to happen. The A340 is winding down, the A330 is still alive, the A380's in limbo, the A350 won't get built for a number of years....the on
61 Ncelhr : French Trade Union guys wouldn't recognise reason if someone replaced a bag of pebbles they're holding with a bag of gold. They'd still be complainin
62 EvilForce : If it was me, I couldn't care less about "prestige". I'd care about which one paid me the most money to do my job, and provide stability for me and m
63 N328KF : The German unions are represented via DaimlerChrysler's stake.
64 Columba : The articles I have read so far in the German media say that the successor of the A320 will be completely build in Hamburg I don´t know if they have
65 Post contains images Jasond : kind of adds to the ongoing 'rivalry' between the two crews now doesn't it
66 NAV20 : As part of the deal to sell 300 X A320s to China (150 in 2005, 150 last year), Airbus have had to undertake to build and operate an assembly plant in
67 Post contains images Astuteman : At 4 per month, those 300 frames will keep the chinese plant quiet for the next 6 years...... Regards
68 Revelation : It would be interesting to know what was best for Airbus as a whole. Presumably manufacturing narrowbody in XFW and widebody in TLS is the best, but
69 Post contains images Scbriml : There's so much hot air in this thread about the A32x family, but this article is saying that the A32x's replacement will only be built on a single p
70 LHStarAlliance : Well it is , sure emerging countries like china or Ireland have big growth coefficients but full developed countries like Germany will never grow 10
71 Post contains images Dougloid : Lebensraum, anyone?
72 N328KF : What is the EIS for the first of these 300 A320s? The plant won't be up and running until 2009...and it was my understanding that the first batch of
73 Stitch : The production rate for Tientsin is four per month, so either a number of planes will be coming from TLS (or XFW if the deal goes through) or China i
74 Post contains links BoomBoom : French Unions Doubt Airbus Assembly Switch http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1168901444.html
75 N328KF : That's because they realize what some here at airliners.net don't—without the A320, the only winner left at Toulouse would be the A330.
76 Post contains images TheSonntag : I think experience plays a role, and hangar capacity. TLS has always built widebodies since the very first Airbus was built, so people know how to do
77 Post contains links Lumberton : Well, if this happens as discussed it won't be without pain. I came across this article earlier and started this thread. Airbus To Cut 10000 Jobs-arti
78 Stitch : Prestige. Each EU government wanted a piece of the pie and the glory. True, some units just happened to be the best fit for the job (Brighton [?] for
79 Ruscoe : What you say is true but how does that fit in with Power 8 restructuring which is expected to have hamburg bare the brunt of the job losses? Ruscoe
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