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Official: Airbus 2006 Order Results  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10677 times:



A.netters kindly clear your calendar for this year's edition of this much anticipated event.

131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10646 times:

Thanks for that Leelaw! Let's see how good the informants are of the German FT, according to them Airbus has booked 800 net firm orders.

At the end of november Airbus had booked 635 firm orders, 611 net firm orders.
Airbus identified trough the last few weeks already 130 of them.

Here's what's been revealed so far.

LH 7 A346
AerCap 20 A330
QF 8 A380, 4 A330
SQ 9 A380, 19 A330 (leased)
Gruppo Marsans 12 A330
Pegasus 6 A330, 2 A350XWB
SALE 20 A32S
Interjet 10 A32S
Silkair 11 A32S
Israir 2 A32S

Total 43 NB + 87 WB = 130 (roughly 59 unacounted for)



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User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10506 times:

They'll be the minus 10 A380F for FedEx and possiby the A330Fs that first came up yesterday?

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
They'll be the minus 10 A380F for FedEx and possiby the A330Fs that first came up yesterday?

The A330Fs announced yesterday are LoI only at this stage, so they wouldnt be included in the 2006 figures.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):

The A330Fs announced yesterday are LoI only at this stage, so they wouldnt be included in the 2006 figures.

of course you're right


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
They'll be the minus 10 A380F for FedEx

That's possible, but since the article in the German FT mentioned net orders, another order would neet to make up for this loss. Making it possibly 69 orders unacounted for.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
and possiby the A330Fs that first came up yesterday?

This was only a LoI that has been signed. No firm order yet.

I guess the 20 A350XWB's from China and the 8 A330s for Transaero might be in there. Possibly an order for 2 A380s from QR aswell.



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User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10028 times:

"Airbus Seen Losing 5-Yr Leadership In Annual Orders"

Quote:
PARIS (AP)--Airbus, which this time last year defied expectations that it had fallen behind Boeing Co. by unveiling a glut of new orders, looks unlikely to pull off the same coup when it announces 2006 figures on Wednesday...

...Airbus warned last month that its share of overall airliner orders placed in 2006 would be about 36% by catalog value - down from 45% a year earlier and 54% in 2004...

...Beyond Wednesday's order and delivery figures, investors are keenly awaiting details of a promised restructuring program. The euro's strength has also hurt profitability at Airbus - which pays most of its costs in euros but bills customers in dollars - and its exposure is set to worsen as currency hedges expire in coming years.

Investors are also waiting on information surrounding the promised "Power8" restructuring program...

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20070116-712368.html

The full text of this Associated Press news story should be available on a "free" site shortly as well, I'll attempt to post such a link asap.


User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2241 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9770 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
(roughly 59 unacounted for)

Here's my bet: UPS goes minus 10 A380F and plus 25 A330F as launch customer. The bad news of delaying the A380F until some future date is cushioned by the good news of the A330F industrial launch...

Could it be?


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 89
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9649 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

They will also be discussing the 2006 earning results for Airbus too;

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 6):
Beyond Wednesday's order and delivery figures, investors are keenly awaiting details of a promised restructuring program.

EADS are now reporting the impact of Airbus 2006 earnings on their outlook.

By Andrea Rothman

Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. said the planemaking division will probably post a loss in earnings before interest and tax for 2006 because of delays and higher costs on the A380.

EADS also said one time charges in relation to settlements with customers, impairment of assets, or financial impacts of the Power8 cost-cutting plan originally expected to occur from 2007 are now foreseen to be recognized as early as 2006.

''Furthermore, additional A380 charges not originally envisaged could apply as well,'' EADS said in a statement today. On the group level, the estimated positive Ebit contributions from the other EADS divisions, will ''roughly balance out the estimated negative Ebit impact of Airbus for 2006,'' EADS said.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a431bKdfPzpc

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9646 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 6):
The full text of this Associated Press news story should be available on a "free" site shortly as well, I'll attempt to post such a link asap.

For those members of the forum who aren't subscribers to the WSJ:

"Airbus likely to lose 5-year leadership in annual orders"

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/299962_airbus17.html


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10168 posts, RR: 97
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9536 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
said the planemaking division will probably post a loss in earnings before interest and tax for 2006 because of delays and higher costs on the A380.

IIRC the original forecast for Airbus EBIT this year was E2.8Bn.
We've already seen a E1Bn one-time charge on A380.
I also recall the possibility of a E1Bn charge arising from the old A350 programme termination.
Now they're saying they're likely to book Power8 exceptional charges this year too.
Sounds like a case of "If you're going to have a bad year, you might as well have a BAD year, and clear the decks  Smile .

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
''Furthermore, additional A380 charges not originally envisaged could apply as well,''

This is most decidedly NOT a good message IMO. Maybe EK really are playing THAT hard.

From memory, we usually have to wait until mid-March for EADS finals, don't we?

Regards


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9519 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
They'll be the minus 10 A380F for FedEx and possiby the A330Fs that first came up yesterday?

I'd be surprised if either have the last signature yet, especially the A330Fs.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 7):
Here's my bet: UPS goes minus 10 A380F and plus 25 A330F as launch customer. The bad news of delaying the A380F until some future date is cushioned by the good news of the A330F industrial launch...

That would be a good deal for both Airbus and UPS.  Smile


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 89
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9332 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

The numbers are:

790 Net orders

434 Deliveries

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9320 times:

824 gross
790 net
-----------
@75.1 billion at list prices - 40% of market share at list prices

deliveries 434
-----------
339 A32x
9 A300F
86 330/340

A330-200F launched

- n1786b


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

backlog of 2533 aircraft. 51% of all aircraft in backlog over 100 seats.

Unit wise for ordered aircraft Airbus is at 43% nett, 44% gross.



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User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9175 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Let's see how good the informants are of the German FT, according to them Airbus has booked 800 net firm orders.

So the report appears to be wrong.

At the end of november Airbus had 635 gross orders, Airbus just announced 824 gross orders. 189 gross orders have been added in december. 10 additional cancellations have been added on top of the 24 known at the end of november.



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User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 15):
10 additional cancellations

I guess that that's FedEx's A380s


User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9068 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 13):
824 gross
790 net
-----------
@75.1 billion at list prices - 40% of market share at list prices

Except nobody buys airplanes at list prices which makes that comparison almost meaningless. Discounts are highly kept trade secrets. In itself its not a bad year for Airbus. In comparison to Boeing, its obviously not as good. The A380 saga has really hurt them. Also constraints on the A320 line keeping sales down (relatively). Production of the A320's can't keep pace with demand. This is the word out on the street.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9034 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 16):
I guess that that's FedEx's A380s

Very likely. Wonder who placed the additional aircraft to reach the 790 and make up for the cancellations.



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User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10168 posts, RR: 97
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8922 times:
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Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 16):
I guess that that's FedEx's A380s

Very likely. Wonder who placed the additional aircraft to reach the 790 and make up for the cancellations.

FEDEX?  Smile

Regards


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8836 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 13):
824 gross
790 net
-----------
@75.1 billion at list prices - 40% of market share at list prices



Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 17):
Except nobody buys airplanes at list prices which makes that comparison almost meaningless.

Of course they don't - however, those are Airbus's words not mine.

- n1786b


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10168 posts, RR: 97
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8775 times:
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Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 17):
Except nobody buys airplanes at list prices which makes that comparison almost meaningless

It certainly makes the number meaningless - the comparison shouldn't necessarily be too far away, though, assuming that the discounts are similar across both ranges...

Regards


User currently offlineUA777300ER From Belgium, joined Jun 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8634 times:

Did John Leahy just slip and mentioned that Lufthansa is to order extra A380's? He said that airlines stayed with the A380 and that several have even ordered more of them. He gave Lufthansa as an example, then realized his mistake and said something I couldn't understand and went on to mention SQ and QF.

User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

For the WB's,

It seems Airbus sold 119 A330/340 aircraft last year (Mr. Leahy mentioned that number), they had already 17 A380s and atleast 15 A330s, for a total of atleast a gross 152 WB aircraft.



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User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8514 times:

Quoting UA777300ER (Reply 23):
Did John Leahy just slip and mentioned that Lufthansa is to order extra A380's? He said that airlines stayed with the A380 and that several have even ordered more of them. He gave Lufthansa as an example, then realized his mistake and said something I couldn't understand and went on to mention SQ and QF.

I noticed the same thing. Hopefully it was truly a "Freudian slip" and not merely a sign of general confusion.

[Edited 2007-01-17 11:52:58]

25 2wingtips : Be interesting to see the backlog figures for NBs v WBs. I assume Boeing will have a far greater WB backlog, due to 450+ 787 orders.
26 Post contains images UA777300ER : A350 rough figure for development cost: EUR 10 billion. I was, however, not able to add up all the costs for the A380. He did answer that question wit
27 Manni : I dont know for Boeing, but for Airbus it is about 580 WB aircraft in backlog. Boeing has 448 787s and 74 748s in backlog. Dont know about the 767, 7
28 Zvezda : This figures were 12B + 1.5B + 5B euro if I recall correctly, however, he warned that the numbers are a confusing mix of various things and tried to
29 DAL767400ER : Per Boeing's numbers "through December", the backlogs stand at 28 767s, 299 777s, and 38 744s, for a total of 365 planes. Combined with the 787 and 7
30 Post contains images Brilondon : Are we surprised at these results? They will do much better once they have the A380 in service and not giving deals to gain orders will increse profit
31 Manni : A small correction 119 + 15 + 17 isn't 152 but 151. Now confirmed on the EADS site, ------------------------------------------------------ With 824 n
32 Astuteman : Check for understanding:- Airbus Backlog Narrowbody 1953 Widebody 580 Total 2533 Boeing Backlog Narrowbody c1563? Widebody 887 Total c2450? Anyone ab
33 Post contains links Lumberton : 737 backlog is 1560 from their website. http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25066&RequestTimeout=20000 Select "standard reports" on the lef
34 WINGS : Just one quick observation Astuteman. Last week Airbus booked an additional 50 x A32X's for Air Asia. If we add those to the 1953 you quoted then Air
35 Post contains images Astuteman : And between Airbus and Boeing, their collective backlog stands at 5000 frames undelivered. Does anyone else think that's extraordinary? (And delivery
36 Post contains links Leelaw : EADS Press Release: http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/...Releases/20070117_airbus_2006.html
37 Manni : That's extrodinary. 5000 aircraft is more aircraft then Airbus delivered since her creation in 1970! BTW, With about 440 deliveries expected in 2007
38 Post contains links WINGS : The list is now available on the Airbus website. http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/ Qantas 4x A332, 8x A388 Lufthansa 7x A346 AerCap 20x A332 Undis
39 Leelaw : Interestingly the updated Excel spreadsheet shows SQ as being the "ordering customer" of the 19 A330s SQ intends to lease on relatively short-term ope
40 Scouseflyer : Interesting who would be orderring narrows and wides, the Pegasus XWBs are confirmed as A358s and 2007 looks like it's off to a flyer: the Air Asia 5
41 Danny : We don't know what the agreement details are.
42 JayinKitsap : It could have been structured as a sale with a garrenteed buyback price with a third party lendor doing the financing.
43 Reggaebird : OK, so filtering through all of the information here, can anyone tell me how the "aged" 737NG did against the "modern" A32X in 2006? Seemed to me that
44 WINGS : Could it be Avianca that is the new Airbus customer? An order for 27 A32X would be right about the same number to replace their current MD80/B757 fle
45 Post contains links Leelaw : That's not how SQ has characterized the mechanics of the transaction: http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...any_info/press_release/NE_3406.jsp
46 Post contains images Baroque : 5000 is truly amazing if not something more like an utterance from, say, Fred Trueman or Billy Connolly. The last of these will trundle into the air
47 Danny : Demand for narrow-bodies currently exceeds supply so both manufacturers basically sell everything they able to manufacture. Airlines are often forced
48 Manni : 729 for Boeing against 649 for Airbus I think. A new airline or an airline replacing their 737s perhaps? That's quiet a few undisclosed orders this t
49 Post contains images Lumberton : Airbus reported gross 673 narrow body sales. Not sure what the cancellations were or I'd provide the net figure. Boeing reported 729 net orders for t
50 Zvezda : It would be odd to list Airbus as the customer.
51 Scouseflyer : I'd say that that could be very possible as it's often been rumoured on here that they will do a BA - Airbus Narrows and Boeing Wides.
52 Post contains images WINGS : If this is in fact correct, it will give Airbus an even bigger presence in South America. Let's just wait ans see who ordered what. Regards, Wings
53 Leelaw : Why, recognizing form over substance would be the most appropriate and accurate method of reporting this hybrid transaction?
54 Zvezda : I'm not saying it would necessarily be wrong, just that it would seem odd. If a company sells something to itself, how can it book that as a sale? Sh
55 BoomBoom : I guess that would apply to the A330 too.
56 RichardPrice : Depends how its financed I suppose - if its financed from internal sources, then the company is simply gaining an asset with a revenue stream, but if
57 N328KF : A move right out of the MiniScribe corporate manual!
58 Leelaw : When a manufacturing concern manufactures an asset which is ultimately capitalized in its own balance sheet, the "sales" portion of the transaction w
59 Stitch : As to Airbus not listing themselves as the customer for the SQ A333 lease, I can't find any record of Boeing Capital (their own aircraft leasing and f
60 Leelaw : Probably because they are financing the deals via capital vs. operating leases. The accounting treatment is quite different.
61 Zvezda : In the SQ A330 case (5 to 6 year leases), I don't see how that could be a capital lease. Surely that is an operating lease?
62 Post contains links and images Chiad : After a quick review of last year I see that Airbus booked "only" 97 airframes during the first 5 months. http://www.justplanes.com/Orders2006.htm Now
63 Leelaw : That would be my hunch as well.
64 Baron95 : Doesn't Boeing list BBJ (partly owned by Boeing) as the customer for all the VIP/Biz Jet sales? Airbus should just list it's leasing/finance usint as
65 N328KF : "Partly owned" is the key. BBJ is technically a completely separate legal entity, and is not 100% under the control of Boeing. Furthermore, BBJ itsel
66 Stitch : Yes they are, but as N328KF notes, they are a seperate division of the company who acts as a broker/dealer for the private party sales these transact
67 RedChili : I think that this is a really ridiculous discussion. The Orders and Deliveries spreadsheet is not listed under the (non-existent) "Accounting" tab on
68 Atmx2000 : No, it is meant to indicate who ordered the planes. They have a separate column for operators. That's the only thing I like about the Airbus spreadsh
69 RedChili : What are you talking about? I can't find that. I'm looking at the "Orders" tab, column 2, under the heading "Customer." I can't find any separate col
70 Post contains images Leelaw :
71 Leelaw : Try looking under the worldwide tab, which is a comprehensive listing since day-one.
72 RedChili : The "Worldwide" tab is no good, since the subject of this thread is "Airbus 2006 Order Results," not "1970-2006 Order Results." The "Orders" tab is t
73 Leelaw : Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not particularly interested in engaging in a tiresome colloquy with you on an admittedly arcane matter
74 RedChili : I'm delighted to hear that. The same goes to you. My whole point, which you may not have understood, is that the spreadsheet is not supposed to be ar
75 Atmx2000 : Actually it doesn't since, it doesn't give the break down by order for the whole year, just the last month. That's one thing I hate about the Airbus
76 RedChili : Which version of the spreadsheet do you have? My version certainly gives the breakdown for the whole year. Row 11 lists an "undisclosed" customer tha
77 Leelaw : I'm not convinced that the information contained in the "spreadsheets" is as you suggest intended exclusively for the use of journalists merely becau
78 RedChili : You've got a point there that I can't answer, since I've never bothered about researching for this information under the investors info on the EADS w
79 Post contains links RedChili : There was a thread called Airbus Wide-body Market Share In 2006 (by 7cubed Jan 15 2007 in Civil Aviation) which was closed by a moderator, and posters
80 Post contains links NAV20 : Article here that says that the 330 freighter version is attracting strong interest. On the face of it that's welcome good news for Airbus. Unusually,
81 Clickhappy : They are selling A330Fs at 75mil a copy? They own the market (segment) yet are giving them away? Shocking. A pax A330 lists for what, 150 mil a copy?
82 Post contains links Stitch : Manni noted it was $160 million when I asked the same question in A330-200F Industrial Launch Approved (by Manni Jan 17 2007 in Civil Aviation). A $7
83 Zeke : Add the two engines and the APU and you get closer to the mark. List prices are based upon airframe and engine, many people buy the airframe and powe
84 Baron95 : Apples to Oranges. Both statements can be correct. Airbus 2006 WB market share can be 30% by unit and 18% by revenue (based on list prices). I for on
85 A520 : The XL sheet from Airbus only show gross order. Does anyone know where to find detailed NETorder, with split in the different sub-types (and not only
86 Jdevora : The 18% was an earlier article based on the planes sold until the end of NOVEMBER, Cheers JD
87 Post contains links BoomBoom : http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aerospace/2003529913_boeing18.html
88 Post contains links Manni : This has been discussed before. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral
89 N328KF : I just received Aviation Week & Space Technology's 2007 source book. In it, they project EADS delivering 446 units (civil) in 2007, curving down to 29
90 Zvezda : It appears that those projections might be based on the assumption that there will be no new orders and no cancellations.
91 Baroque : No new orders does not really seem to be the reason. If no new orders, why is Boeing still so high. Just on Airbus, and taking the 32x family ONLY. A
92 Post contains links BoomBoom : http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/01/18/100bus_airbus001.cfm
93 Post contains images Leelaw : What's Aboulafia grousing about, SKYBUS has the full faith & credit of Columbus, OH behind them?
94 Manni : What issues does Mr. Aboulafia have with Airbus? So now it's Skybus that Mr. Aboulafia has singled out to continue his trashtalking of Airbus. Skybus
95 Post contains links Leelaw : Speaking of Mr. Aboulafia, some A.netters may find his latest tome, "Winners And Losers In The Great Aircraft Boom" interesting reading: http://www.ai
96 Mariner : It's such a snobby attitude. The implication is that Boeing only has blue chip customers. Great. But should other manufacturers not sell to "lesser"
97 Leelaw : Aren't "analysts" supposed to render unvarnished opinions about the "quality/viability" of a manufacturer's customers. If it comes off "snobby," so b
98 Baron95 : Manni, with all due respect, you are mixing a lot of stuff in your math at the wrong place. First of all the 2006 WB orders are not worth US$96B (US$
99 Manni : That leads us to the difficult definition of a 'blue chip airline'. Here's one example, Lion Air, and there are bound to be many more amongst Boeing'
100 Mariner : Where does it stop? Many folk would say that Ryanair is scarcely a "blue chip" airline - except that it has coffers filled with gelt. Skybus clearly
101 Post contains links PM : It's slipped off the orders page now but did Aboulafia have anything to say about this in 2004? http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q4/nr_041021g
102 Manni : It was clear from my post that I was speaking listprice. On the Airbus front 104 out of 151 were for the extremely popular A330. The 40% is a figure
103 Leelaw : Mr. Aboulafia isn't arguing that Airbus shouldn't sell aircraft to SKYBUS and/or other "lesser" airlines, he's merely questioning whether in the long
104 Manni : Fair enough. Because he singled out Airbus, while Boeing has similar customers on his orderbook.
105 Mariner : I didn't said he couldn't or shouldn't - Mr. Aboulafia's opinions are well known. I said it was "snobby". I seem to remember him saying the same thin
106 Leelaw : Why shouldn't he single-out Airbus if he's concluded there's a qualitative difference in the customer base between the OEMs, he's rendering an opinio
107 Manni : There isn't a difference. I've showed already one example, and no doubt there are many more. If his aim is to be regarded as a biased analyst, you ce
108 BoomBoom : Was that version 1, 2, 3, 4 , 5, or 6?
109 Mariner : I can't think that it matters. The attitude is still snobbery. mariner
110 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Maybe people here who are questioning/bashing Mr. Aboulafia should read his comments in the late 90's and early 2000's and substitute Airbus with Boei
111 Leelaw : IMO there's a clear qualitative difference between Lion Air, an established business which has been operating for more than six years (32 aircraft in
112 Post contains images Mariner : I'm not bashing him - a dangerous thing to do here, obviously - I'm not even questioning him. I am making a comment about a statement of his. That's
113 Manni : The amount of succesful people in the business Skybus managed to take under contract suggest that they are more then an airline based on an informal
114 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Hi Mariner.. My comments weren't targetting anyone in particular, but rather a "generalised" statement regarding Mr. Aboulafia on A.net, who's active
115 Manni : That sounds as a good idea. When is their first flight scheduled to take place and their first aircraft scheduled to arrive?
116 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I did see a Skybus A32X photo recently, but I don't know when their first flight is..maybe someone could fill us in.. .also...."x" amount of months m
117 Manni : Obviously a fair amount of time should pass before any conclusion can be made. Was that a photoshop or a picture from a real (on lease?) aircraft in
118 Post contains images Leelaw : You certainly won't glean that information from their "informational" website, nor will you be able to determine which "major" city(ies) they intend
119 Manni : I've never said Mr. Aboulafia is absolutely 'bonkers' (mad, crazy, mentally ill), I've said that Mr. Aboulafia's comment are biased. Your twisting of
120 Leelaw : If you found my rhetorical hyperbole offensive I apologize. That may be, though I'm not convinced that posters on A.net are always the best arbiters
121 Post contains links Leelaw : Speednews has compiled a nice summary chart of 2006 orders/deliveries of commerical jet aircraft for Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, and Embraer which inc
122 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .I was going through their "goodies" and comments on their website, I had a feeling you of all people were going to mention something regarding this.
123 Post contains images Stitch : One could argue that Boeing refusing to entertain RFPs (either seriously or period) from some "lesser" airlines allowed Airbus to make some of the in
124 BoomBoom : I believe it was Version 4 that Mr. Aboulafia referred to as fluff. Apparently ILFC, SQ and ultimately Airbus itself agreed with him and dumped the d
125 Leelaw : That's pure anathema to Airbusiers, their fellow-travellers, and sympathesizers. I did have to chuckle a bit when Mr. Gallois & Co wistfully rational
126 Post contains images Mariner : I can't argue with that. Since I wasn't commenting on the A350 - merely on his statement about the airlines that had signed for it - again, I can't t
127 Post contains images Leelaw : Point taken, kindly excuse this "snobby" cad for not qualifying my remark with something like "most ardent Airbusiers...." to avoid offending the sen
128 Post contains images Mariner : Not a problem. It takes a lot more than that to offend my sensibilities. But I am intrigued by the use of the word "innocent" in association with me.
129 Post contains links and images Leelaw : "Airbus - 'down but not out' as it plots comeback with A330-200F and A350 after orders race loss to Boeing" http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...35
130 Post contains links and images Scbriml : No, he referred to Airbus customers as fluff. Not the planes. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/255988_air18ww.html Seems like he'll get his wis
131 Post contains images BoomBoom : It hard to believe but it's been a year since he said that and we're still waiting for a blue chip customer to sign a firm order. Meanwhile, Boeing r
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