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Have IB Finally Lost Their Marbles?!  
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

Was just returning yesterday afternoon from my extended Christmas holidays (CDG-LHR-LGW-SZG-LGW-LHR-BKK-SYD-CBR-MEL-HBA-MEL-BNE-SYD-AKL-SCL-
GIG-MAD-CDG[trip report when I get a chance]). The GIG-MAD and MAD-CDG sectors were on Iberia. On the afternoon flight back to Paris I was seated in the front row of an MD-88 (ancient aircraft) and, in mid flight, flight attendants passed, opened the cockpit door and proceeded to enter with a teenager and mother for a tour of the flight deck!!!???? It is just me, or have IB finally lost their marbles?

[Edited 2007-01-16 22:38:00]


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1597 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

isn't this regulation only valid for flights in connection with the US?


AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8863 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 1):
isn't this regulation only valid for flights in connection with the US?

I've recently flown AF, QF, CX, BA and LA and from memory, all have armored cockpit doors with combination locks and CCTV cameras to prevent unauthorized entry. On my MEL-BNE sector on QF, the mere insistence of an elderly man that he wanted to visit the flight deck caused the senior flight attendant to barricade the galley with a trolley as a precaution to prevent any potential move by the guy in the direction of the cockpit, which, as mentioned, was well armored. Is QF paranoid or IB lax?



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8855 times:

I think they have lost their marbles.
When I flew MAD-GVA last november I took a pic inside the cabin and was obliged by the FA to delete it !

[Edited 2007-01-16 22:48:05]


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8833 times:

Were the pax a security risk? No. Isn't it great that someone asked and got shown the flightdeck? I wish I could be so lucky. On my last IB flight BOD MAD the cockpit door was open for at least half the journey. So what? It just shows that the paranoia and fear gripping our industry isn't totally universal. I look forward to a return to the normality of flying and not sticking my liquids in stupid little plastic bags because of so-called intel from the same people who bought us WMD's in Iraq, or not as it turned out. They way things are at the moment, the terrorists have damn near succeeded anyway.

There are plenty of things I would slate IB for, but this isn't one of them.



Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

There is nothing wrong with visiting the cockpit when the aircraft is at the gate, but during flight operations, it should be a big no-no.


Boston, USA
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8805 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 4):
Were the pax a security risk? No. Isn't it great that someone asked and got shown the flightdeck? I wish I could be so lucky. On my last IB flight BOD MAD the cockpit door was open for at least half the journey. So what? It just shows that the paranoia and fear gripping our industry isn't totally universal

I don't think it's a security risk at all, to be honest... you can bet the next major terrorist attack will not be using aircraft. After all the security at airports nowadays, I doubt something major is going to happen again.

QF overreacted, I would have let the old guy see the flight deck. Paranoia gone mad.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8767 times:

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 5):
There is nothing wrong with visiting the cockpit when the aircraft is at the gate, but during flight operations, it should be a big no-no.

Why? It's been done for decades. In europe cockpit visits are left primarily to the discretion of the crew. Few airlines prohibit it. I don't see what the big deal is.


User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 4):
It just shows that the paranoia and fear gripping our industry isn't totally universal. I look forward to a return to the normality of flying and not sticking my liquids in stupid little plastic bags because of so-called intel from the same people who bought us WMD's in Iraq, or not as it turned out.

Actually the intel about the liquid came from our British freinds, not the Americans... dont be so quick to push the blame.



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineLongHaul67 From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8678 times:

This really surprises me. With the terrorist attack in Madrid in mind I would have thought IB keep cockpit doors locked and no way anyone would be allowed to visit during flight.

User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8653 times:

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 8):

I WAS referring to the Brits actually. It was ex-MI6 boss Richard Dearlove who "sexed up" the issue for Blair if you recall.



Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1597 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8610 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
I've recently flown AF, QF, CX, BA and LA and from memory, all have armored cockpit doors with combination locks and CCTV cameras to prevent unauthorized entry.

true
but now this: the last time I flew MIA-CDG with AF, I was on the 744 upper deck as pax and all of the sudden, the captain came out of the cockpit (we were cruising already) to solve a dispute between FAs.
( the argument was about defining turns to go to crew rest during night flight...I know I spent 1/2 of the flight chatting with FAs  Smile )
now imagine I am a nasty terrorist and take the opportunity of this door opening in front of me to break their neck with a bottle of champagne?

ok, I nevertheless admit there was this mountain of a guy seating just in front of cockpit door as a sky marshall



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 4):
Were the pax a security risk? No. Isn't it great that someone asked and got shown the flightdeck? I wish I could be so lucky. On my last IB flight BOD MAD the cockpit door was open for at least half the journey. So what? It just shows that the paranoia and fear gripping our industry isn't totally universal. I look forward to a return to the normality of flying and not sticking my liquids in stupid little plastic bags because of so-called intel from the same people who bought us WMD's in Iraq, or not as it turned out. They way things are at the moment, the terrorists have damn near succeeded anyway.

There are plenty of things I would slate IB for, but this isn't one of them.

Terrorists have succeeded how? Aviation continues to go on as it has in the past, security has tightened, but life goes on. Because of one intelligence failure, we should discard all intelligence? Maybe you should think of the many instances where intelligence has saved countless lives.

Those people who make you put the liquids in clear plastic bags, and their intelligence, they stopped a terrorist attack in london a few months ago that very well could have killed hundreds to thousands of airline passengers. When someone hijacks a plane full of innocent people by taking control of the cockpit and crashes it into a building full of more innocent people, and thousands die in your country, talk to me about opening the cockpit door midflight.

The armored cockpit doors and limited cockpit access have gone in throughout aviation as a precaution. There is no reason anyone needs to visit the cockpit during flight. They can visit on the ground before or after landing with no issues.

In this case, the risks outweigh the rewrards. Visiting the cockpit is very cool, but there is just too much to risk. not worth it.

Boo to Iberia for carelessness
Yay to Qantas for exercising all due caution.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8413 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 12):
In this case, the risks outweigh the rewrards. Visiting the cockpit is very cool, but there is just too much to risk. not worth it.

Somehow I don't think a terrorist would allow the success or failure of a possible attack, dependent on the chance that a captain would allow him/her to visit the cockpit. Tell me, how many terrorists have used a request to visit the cockpit as a way to perform a terrorist act? Lets worry about real dangers and stop the paranoia about perceived dangers.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

Iberia hasn't gone mad. The rest of the world has. How naïve are you folks that you think locking the cockpit door is effective?

Letting kids and pax visit the cockpit has gone on for as long as I can remember without incident. I could easily destroyer an airliner or kill everyone onboard with today's "security". If you think you are somehow much safer you're just deluding yourself.

If you want proof just look at our Russian spy friend who is dead and aircraft contaminated with radio active material that wasn't detected (and cannot be detected at all if packaged correctly).

If someone wants to blow up your plane, shoot you in the head or urinate in your coffee they will do so. This "security" is a joke. But what's worse is how manu sheeple buy into it. Its disgusting! Can't you people think freely anymore? What a sad sad state the world is in these days.

Poverty runs rampant, education is failing and people still get upset about a cockpit visit. Talk about priorities in the wrong place.

You want to fight terrorism?? Use a truly effective mechanism: education. Educate the world, work to irradicate poverty, THEN terrorism will go away. All these bandaid fixes get us nowhere.

There are lots of simple ways to get around today's security. Just stop and try it (mentally LOL). You'll see you are no safer from a determined terrorist than you were in 1997. All you have is more grief, more delays and more costs. Sure the door is armored, but you could easily smuggle say the plague onto a plane and blamo... You're all dead.

Unless you plan a strip search (with body cavity search and xray) and 2 week quarantine before you fly there is always going to be a way to kill a plane full of people.

And before someone jumps up and down and screams that I'm giving the terrorists ideas, get over it! If you don't think they can come up with this on their own you are an idiot.

The fact that you all think about terrorists everytime the door opens just proves they are impacting you life and you are afraid... And that's their goal. So they have won! LIVE YOUR LIFE ALREADY!



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2291 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

As far as I know, zero (0) terrorist attacks have so far happened as a result of cockpit visits. If a terrorist(s) would want to enter the cockpit, it's much more likely that he/they would try to smash a bottle on the head of the flight attendants and sky marshals at any time the cockpit door would be open.

And all of you also realize that if a guy looking like Mohammed Atta would ask for a cockpit visit, that Iberia would turn him down.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
to prevent unauthorized entry

The key is unauthorized. If the captain says yes, then it is authorized.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
Is QF paranoid or IB lax?

In your example, when an elderly man insisted, QF probably did the right thing by denying him the request.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 12):
Those people who make you put the liquids in clear plastic bags, and their intelligence, they stopped a terrorist attack in london a few months ago that very well could have killed hundreds to thousands of airline passengers.

The intelligence people who stopped the attack, and the bureaucrats who force us to put liquids into plastic bags, are not the same people.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 12):
When someone hijacks a plane full of innocent people by taking control of the cockpit and crashes it into a building full of more innocent people, and thousands die in your country, talk to me about opening the cockpit door midflight

I can talk to you about opening cockpit doors midflight today. Guess what? it's being done every day on every single airline on long flights. For the sake of the safety of the flight, the flight crew needs food during the flight, access to the bathroom, the possibility of switching pilots on long flights, etc. So the cockpit doors will be opened a lot of times anyway, no matter if you allow passengers to visit the flight deck or not.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8265 times:

@flydreamliner:

Ok man I was debating posting this (partly because its a pain in the rear on my cell, partial because its a touchy issue) but here goes:

On behalf of those people who died on 9/11 who were NOT American I'm disgusted by your statements regarding your right as an American to judge how airline safety should be handled.

NEWS FLASH: non-Americans died too, and many countries in the world have just as much right to talk about flight safety as American's do. To ignore this and set up 9/11 as an American only tragedy is to spit on the graves of all those who died on 9/11.

Sorry but that's how I feel.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlinePhatty3374 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8182 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 15):
I can talk to you about opening cockpit doors midflight today. Guess what? it's being done every day on every single airline on long flights. For the sake of the safety of the flight, the flight crew needs food during the flight, access to the bathroom, the possibility of switching pilots on long flights, etc. So the cockpit doors will be opened a lot of times anyway, no matter if you allow passengers to visit the flight deck or not.

This is true, but I believe that there are certain procedures for occurences when the cockpit door is open. If food is being delivered to the Captain/FO, it is a relatively quick process. If one of them has to go to the bathroom, then either a FA takes the absent pilot's seat, or the FA stands in front of the door. Again, I don't know if this is S.O.P., but I've seen it on United, Delta, US Airways, Air France, and even Ryanair (STN-CIA) flights.

That said, I agree with most of what Osiris says about the measures currently being taken. If anyone wanted to, they probably could blow up an airliner. At this point, it is really up to the intelligence agencies to stop these plots before they happen, not the security officers at the terminals. Although they are a vital link in the whole airport scheme and deserve respect for what they do, there are, and always will be loopholes through airport security.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 14):
You want to fight terrorism?? Use a truly effective mechanism: education. Educate the world, work to irradicate poverty, THEN terrorism will go away. All these bandaid fixes get us nowhere.

Amen! My post should probably be in a political forum, but I just want to say that our government's recent actions are not helping the prospect of future generations being able to visit the cockpit without restriction! There is a huge rift in communication and understanding between Americans and a small (but growing) sect of radical Islam, and education ON BOTH SIDES is necessary to stop these terrorist sentiments. As you said, these "bandaid fixes" are not helping anyone.

Regards,

TG


User currently offlineMkirch72 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7940 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 16):
@flydreamliner:

Ok man I was debating posting this (partly because its a pain in the rear on my cell, partial because its a touchy issue) but here goes:

On behalf of those people who died on 9/11 who were NOT American I'm disgusted by your statements regarding your right as an American to judge how airline safety should be handled.

Osiris30:

I just reread flydreamliner's posting and maybe I'm missing something. Where are you seeing him say that he has a right as an American to judge how airline safety should be handled?

I'm not trying to enflame the issue - I just didn't read that in his post. Can you clarify what you mean? And if he did not state this, are you infering that, as an American, he does NOT have a right to give his opinion on airline safety? Isn't this the topic of the discussion?


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1840 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Why? It's been done for decades. In europe cockpit visits are left primarily to the discretion of the crew. Few airlines prohibit it. I don't see what the big deal is.

Correct. FAs often show the cabin to kids who seem to be afraid of flying, or maybe the woman and kid were relatives of one of the FAs or the teenager told someone on board that he wanted to be a pilot and the airline gave him an unforgettable experience.

I don't understand the fuss about it.


User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
I've recently flown AF, QF, CX, BA and LA and from memory, all have armored cockpit doors with combination locks and CCTV cameras to prevent unauthorized entry. On my MEL-BNE sector on QF, the mere insistence of an elderly man that he wanted to visit the flight deck caused the senior flight attendant to barricade the galley with a trolley as a precaution to prevent any potential move by the guy in the direction of the cockpit, which, as mentioned, was well armored. Is QF paranoid or IB lax?

yes QF have armored cockpit doors with combination locks (its funny how all airplanes of the same airline have the same lock #, so if you watch the F/A's carfully, as I have done, you can figure out the code) and CCTV cameras... but at the same time they leave the door open before take off whilest the passengars are coming in. The F/A's haven't had a problem with me going up there, granted this was last June and i was 14 at the time, and it was after the flight.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7823 times:

UA do that also with the food cart !! When the pilot goes to the jacks or they want a drink two male F/A's block the cabin/galley with a food cart and stand in front of it whilst the F/A opens the door!!!!

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7721 times:

Mkirch72:

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 18):
just reread flydreamliner's posting and maybe I'm missing something. Where are you seeing him say that he has a right as an American to judge how airline safety should be handled?

Sure:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 12):
When someone hijacks a plane full of innocent people by taking control of the cockpit and crashes it into a building full of more innocent people, and thousands die in your country, talk to me about opening the cockpit door midflight.

Note the reference to "in your country"



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently onlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7573 times:

Quoting LongHaul67 (Reply 9):
This really surprises me. With the terrorist attack in Madrid in mind I would have thought IB keep cockpit doors locked and no way anyone would be allowed to visit during flight.

well... with the terrorist attack in Madrid in mind this really doesn't matter.

So the Mr Passenger has to take off his clothes, he can't travel with contac-lenses liquid bigger than 100 ml. He can't even board a can of coke unless he opens it and tastes it (depends on the security guy's mood) and the Mr Terrorist can park a van with 500 kg of explosives and blow it up. "Just" two people died only because they called to warn about the bomb.

Now what? Should we ban cars capable of carrying more than 100 ml? Should we drive naked when entering a public parking? We could do that so the terrorists won't win.

You now can imagine how insignificant that door should be if one can blow up an entire parking building wearing his shoes, with a bottle of whatever bigger than 100 ml and with that cookpit door shut


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7505 times:

I don't see a problem here. If the captain authorized a cockpit visit, then that's his decision. Apparently it was safe and indicated by history it is safe.

Unauthorized 'visits' to the cockpit can be dangerous. It's not the same thing.

Very nice of that Iberia captain, I think.

cheers

Asturias



Tonight we fly
25 Post contains images FCAFLYBOY : Respect! well said!
26 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : Now that right there is losing their marbles! (not to mention ridiculous). I rarely agree with you but I feel you on this one! Now some flight attend
27 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = In this instance, QF is certainly paranoid . = Maybe they were just afraid of that people would find out that the rumours of poor service on IB is
28 Post contains images Flyorski : That is a little too harsh, but you do have a point When I first saw this thread, my first thought was; "IB had any marbles?", but I guess that reall
29 FlyDreamliner : I realize a lot of security measures have become what any reasonable person would consider paranoid, but unfortunately, I believe that's how they hav
30 AirTran717 : On the ground, and at the gate, anyone who wishes to visit the cockpit during boarding or deplaning may do so. Once the cockpit door is shut prior to
31 JJJ : The rule is whatever the pilot says. He is supposed to take a coherent and well-informed decission. I've seen kids visiting the pilot's cabin often a
32 AviationAddict : I'm sure that's a fact, but it's an idiotic one. Terrorism is a problem everywhere and passengers should be kept out of the cockpits of every airline
33 Osiris30 : I live in Canada and know a couple of folks in the armed forces (one quite personally) who were killed by friendly fire incidents involving a US Airc
34 Rmcf : Maybe they were the captains family or friends (and I think this is the case). The captain authorized this visit at his own risk, I don't think there
35 FlyDreamliner : I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree. This discussion is going nowhere positive.
36 Jfk777 : Wouldn't surprise me Iberia did it. The Spanish speaking world has a more laid back attitude about these things. I surprised the Basque serparatist ha
37 777236ER : 9/11 wouldn't have happened with locked cockpit doors.
38 Osiris30 : My point was merely this: If you stop and think about it, what happened on 9/11, while incredibly traggic, is no different than what many other place
39 Smokescreen : Kind of OT, but folks have been using this tactic in naval warfare ever since the invention of explosives, and probably before too using just plain o
40 BALAX : Maybe it was prearranged, so not a problem for the pilots.
41 Asturias : Because you're an idiot and because that would be the permanent end of ETA. Asturias
42 FlyDreamliner : 9/11 was an attack on a very large scale, and it highlighted security weaknesses, and did introduce terror in a much more personal way to the america
43 Rikkus67 : Osiris.... welcome to my respected users list. Rik, Canada (half of my relatives are US citizens...)
44 Howard500 : Gentleman, For havens sake….a kid that visits the cockpit with dad…. thanks god there are still crews out there that allow things like these to ta
45 OA260 : Err sorry mate your comments about the situation in Ireland are not true and both catholics and protestants suffered equally and killed equally. Stic
46 AirTran717 : Guys... cockpit doors have always been locked. Always. But it's the policies and procedures... and cockpit keys that were issued to the crew that cau
47 EZYAirbus : I agree with you 100% Knobhead! Crawl back under your rock where you belong! Last summer I flew LTN-AMS on easyJet in the jumpseat, does this mean ea
48 OzGlobal : Captain was Caucasian, teenager was black.... Could be adopted I guess...?
49 Post contains images Osiris30 : @oa260: My statements about the Protestant in Ireland were meant as a non-all-inclusive thing (thus the I could go on and on.). I'm well aware of the
50 OA260 : No probs mate but it looked like it to me and another Irish person but I take your point!! Im totally neutral thus my comment re: equally on both sid
51 Post contains images Javibi : j
52 Post contains images VHXLR8 : QF is not paranoid; but merely in accordance with regulations that have put in place for them to follow. Nothing personal, but you would have also lo
53 SwissA330 : I see no problem. This has been done before as well... Good to see that terrorists have not yet destroyed all our little pleasures... All those secur
54 Qantas787 : We were to return our Avis car to Madrid airport at the time of the bomb, luckily we delayed by a day.(the Avis area disappeared), my point I am about
55 Sabenapilot : Just because somebody got to see the cockpit in flight, doesn't mean security was at risk. As Asturias has said: It's not the authorised visit which i
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