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JAL Slash ZRH And 2 More Route, Increase CDG/JFK  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8887 times:

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/news/sangyo/20070117AT1D1609S16012007.html

Nikkei Net on 17JAN07 reported that JAL will further announce termination of 3 routes starting the 2007 Northern Summer Timetable, but will increase flights on high-yield route.

Zurich, which is a summer-only flight, will not be resumed and cancelled permanently. 2 other routes to China will either gone or operating reduced frequencies.

This is in addition to 10 domestic routes which the airline will suspend in 2007.

Meanwhile, Tokyo - New York will be increased to 13x weekly while Tokyo - Paris will become double daily

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8874 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Tokyo - New York

Shopping

and...

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Tokyo - Paris

Shopping.

(Yes NYC has many business relationships but these two locations are the most popular tourist destinations for Japanese.)

Where are INDIA flights?



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8854 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
2 other routes to China will either gone or operating reduced frequencies.

Just goes to show that China isn't the "be-all, end-all" road to profitability like many here on A.net claim it to be.......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8834 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
Just goes to show that China isn't the "be-all, end-all" road to profitability like many here on A.net claim it to be.......

It's actually considered a short-haul route, which the competition are extreme. The disadvantage for JAL and ANA is their smallest international aircraft is 767, which isn't really sustainable to operate it like Chinese carriers.

Although ANA learn their lesson already and began to put 73G and 320 on China routes since last year. Same for JAL, starting later this year.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 3):
It's actually considered a short-haul route, which the competition are extreme. The disadvantage for JAL and ANA is their smallest international aircraft is 767, which isn't really sustainable to operate it like Chinese carriers.

Although ANA learn their lesson already and began to put 73G and 320 on China routes since last year. Same for JAL, starting later this year.

I still think the concept holds water..if JL wanted to, rather than cutting the routes, they could have switched to smaller planes...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
I still think the concept holds water..if JL wanted to, rather than cutting the routes, they could have switched to smaller planes...

Exactly. Someone here once said that when Japanese "go abroad" they want to fly on a widebody. Even China and Korea would mean a widebody. This might still be true in some cases but NH has been slowly downgrading regional flights to 737s and A320s for a while.

I will use NGO as an example: (regionals)
Listed by aircraft size
NGO-ICN
KE 744, B739
JL B767
OZ B767, A321
NH A320

NGO-PUS
JL B767
KE B739

NGO-PVG
JL B767
NH B767
MU AB6
CA B738
CZ A320

NGO-PEK
JL B767
CA B738
MU B737
NH Codeshares with CA

NGO-CAN
JL B767
CZ B757
NH B737 (737-700ER starting in spring)

NGO-TPE
UA 772ER (will be discontinued soon)
CX A333 (Sometimes 773)
CI A333
BR A332
EG B767
EL B737

NGO-HKG
CX A333 (Sometimes A343)

You can see...JL is the widebody king in the region on this not-so-big market. Only on two routes are they not the largest. NH only uses one 767 on international routes from NGO.

Korean and Chinese carriers fly into many cities in Japan using smaller aircraft. NH does the same thing. JL on the otherhand seems to still want people to go via hubs on these short routes.

Now when they get more 737s and the 787s come in, I bet JL will decrease their widebody overkill on some routes and thin out some routes that don't need such capacity.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8630 times:

It seems that AMS has - for now - escaped the axe then. I've heard a couple of time from different sources within or close to JL that the NRT AMS route was under review. The axing of ZRH comes as no surprise, though, for sure not considering that LX will soon go daily on the route.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

Any information regarding GRU? Will JAL continue its 3 x week operation in GRU, any chance of more flights?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
I've heard a couple of time from different sources within or close to JL that the NRT AMS route was under review.

I also have the same information, but KL apparently is doing quite well in the Japanese market, and dont forget that there is a relevant Japanese community in Amsterdam, more precisely the Amstelveen area.

Rgs,


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Saw tonight on the news.

HKG and CAN get reduced.
Hanoi and Dalian get increases.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8150 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
The axing of ZRH comes as no surprise, though, for sure not considering that LX will soon go daily on the route.

They already fly 6 weekly NRT on codeshare with ANA (swiss metal)! Good for LX if JAL stops flying the route. They probably would need an extra A340 for an additional weekly flight !
Swiss should consider getting the A380 for the route if they get the pax from JAL as I heard that the load is generally very good on LX ZRH-NRT flights.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4851 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8028 times:

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 9):
Swiss should consider getting the A380 for the route if they get the pax from JAL as I heard that the load is generally very good on LX ZRH-NRT flights.

Swiss dont need the A 380 or a B 748 for ANY ROUTE...even though JAL is suspending ZRH flights, that move doesnt warrant LX to increase frequency/capacity on the sector.

Since JAL is a ONE WORLD member, one doesnt see JFK being increased as its a big AA hub.

I would advise JAL to start NRT-DXB nonstop flights this year. No airline flies between the 2 cities nonstop and there is huge high yielding demand that can be obtained on this route. A 3-4 weekly B 772ER operation is adequate. EK has v high loads in J and F class on their NGO and KIX flights and lots of pax have onward connections on NH to NRT/HND .


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7979 times:

It's about time to increase CDG frequency because JAL's flight is the first one to arrive (I believe) at CDG in the morning at 4 or 5 a.m. Very inconvenient flight and hopefully the second flight will arrive at a more reasonable time. Paris is definitely the most popular European destination from here.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7904 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):


Since JAL is a ONE WORLD member, one doesnt see JFK being increased as its a big AA hub.

JFK is not a big AA hub. In fact, it is a smaller AA operation than LAX, IIRC.

JFK-NRT being increased is obvious: both Northwest and United have left the market in the past year.



a.
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5130 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7901 times:

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 9):
Swiss should consider getting the A380 for the route if they get the pax from JAL as I heard that the load is generally very good on LX ZRH-NRT flights.

= Does anyone in Switzerland not remember the HUNTER strategy? Many claim that the need of SR to be larger than it needed to brought its downfall. Same here. Why the hell would they need the 380? LX is doing well as a niche carrier within the LH group and their current fleet serves them well.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7866 times:

What does JAL use on these routes? 744, 773ER, 772ER?

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7821 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
HKG and CAN get reduced.
Hanoi and Dalian get increases.

These included in the new announcement on separate post, along with the new product launch in 2007 and 2008.


User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7789 times:

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= Does anyone in Switzerland not remember the HUNTER strategy? Many claim that the need of SR to be larger than it needed to brought its downfall. Same here. Why the hell would they need the 380? LX is doing well as a niche carrier within the LH group and their current fleet serves them well.

1. The hunter strategy doesn't/didn't have anything to do with bigger or a higher number of equipment. (not saying that LX would need an A380 for any route)
2. LX as a "Swiss National" carrier flying 6 different continents and all major European destinations is for sure NO niche carrier at all.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 9):
They already fly 6 weekly NRT on codeshare with ANA (swiss metal)! Good for LX if JAL stops flying the route. They probably would need an extra A340 for an additional weekly flight !



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
Swiss dont need the A 380 or a B 748 for ANY ROUTE...even though JAL is suspending ZRH flights, that move doesnt warrant LX to increase frequency/capacity on the sector.

As per Swiss, Tokyo will go daily from July 2007. This decision however was made already in December 2006.



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5130 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 16):
1. The hunter strategy doesn't/didn't have anything to do with bigger or a higher number of equipment. (not saying that LX would need an A380 for any route)

= The premise of the Hunter Strategy was to make SR bigger than it needed to be. IMO, its semantics whether this is viewed through irrelevant destinations, frequencies, partner airlines, buying up airlines, or bigger aircrafts.

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 16):
2. LX as a "Swiss National" carrier flying 6 different continents and all major European destinations is for sure NO niche carrier at all.

= Oh come on. LX is still (unfortunately) part of LH. It does not fly to all 6 continents and its global network (outside Europe) is still "niche" like. I mean: 5 cities in North America, 1 in South America, 9 in Asia, and 9 in Africa does not really compare to the major European carriers does it? Not saying quality and quantity are correlated of course ... LX is still one of the 2 airlines in Europe worth flying intercontinentally for me ... KL is the other.

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 9):
They already fly 6 weekly NRT on codeshare with ANA (swiss metal)! Good for LX if JAL stops flying the route. They probably would need an extra A340 for an additional weekly flight !

As said, it is already definite that Swiss will go daily from July on when they get their first of three additional 343. They already have the slot at NRT.


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 16):
As per Swiss, Tokyo will go daily from July 2007. This decision however was made already in December 2006.

Actually the daily flight will be effective 20FEB07, when LX and LH both gets 2 slots (1 round-trip flight) from NRT in October


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

Silly moderators deleted the other thread with complete information.

Here it is again

JAL on 17JAN07 announced international flight operation plan for 2007, as well as the launch of Domestic First Class and International Premium Economy Class.

Flight Increase
Tokyo - New York 10x weekly-> 13x weekly (2007 Summer schedule only)
Tokyo - Paris 10x weekly -> 14x weekly (01JUN07 - 30SEP07)
Tokyo - Moscow 2x weekly -> 3x weekly (01JUN07 - 30SEP07)
Tokyo - Delhi 4x weekly -> 5x weekly (operated by JALWays eff 01OCT07)
Osaka - Hanoi 3x weekly -> 4x weekly, 737-800 eff 15MAY07
Osaka - Dalian 3x weekly -> 7x weekly, eff 01JUL07 (737-800 enter service eff 01MAY07)
Osaka - Qingdao 2x weekly -> 3x weekly, eff 01JUL07 (737-800 enter service eff 01MAY07)
Osaka - Hangzhou 2x weekly -> 3x weekly, eff 01JUL07 (737-800 enter service eff 01MAY07)

Additional adjustment to China to be announced

Reduction, Suspension
Tokyo - Zurich: suspended
Tokyo - Hong Kong: 21x weekly -> 17x weekly eff 25MAR07
Tokyo - Guangzhou: 14x weekly -> 11x weekly eff 25MAR07

737-800
737-800 enters service eff 15MAY07 on Osaka - Hanoi , eff 01JUL07 on Osaka - Dalian, Osaka - Qingdao, Osaka - Hangzhou

Others
Tokyo - Kaohsiung by JAA 767 -> 744 eff 01OCT07
Tokyo - Taipei by JAA eff 01OCT07, NRT evening departure 744 -> 767
Osaka - Taipei by JAA eff 01OCT07, KIX evening departure 744 -> 767
Narita - Itami eff 01APR07, afternoon ITM departure 734 -> CRJ

Charter
800 charters to be operated in 2007, including:
Fairbanks, Anchorage, Prague, Budapest, Alice Springs, Darwin, Palau, Majuro, Ulan Batar

Premium Economy
Starting Fall 2007, JAL will roll out Premium Economy Class service onboard the 777, which will be mainly flying Europe and US.

The configuration will be 2-4-2, 38" seat pitch, 40 seats on sale.


(photo: JAL)

Domestic First Class
Starting 2008, JAL will launch Domestic First Class, with tickets on sale around Fall 2007.

Routes will be mainly trunk routes including Haneda - Itami/Fukuoka

15 777-200 will be equipped 14 First Class seat (no 747-400), in 2-2-2 configuration, 50" seat pitch. The old Super Seat was 40"


(photo: JAL)

Revamped Cabin service
Starting 2007, inflight meals will be renewed. And in 2008, NEW FIRST, BUSINESS, ECONOMY CLASS SEATS will be rolled out for international flights.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7341 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 20):
Tokyo - New York 10x weekly-> 13x weekly (2007 Summer schedule only)

Any schedule/Eqp. type for this yet? Would be interesting to see the JL 777 at JFK.



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7280 times:

What is JAL's current schedule to CDG?

When I flew out of CDG in November I saw 2 JAL 777-200s and 1 777-300ER.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
What does JAL use on these routes? 744, 773ER, 772ER?

ZRH was served with a 772 last summer, though it was at one point operated with an MD-11 and even a 747.

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User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

JAL has also unveiled the International First Class design blue print.

Domestic F pricing structure expected to be Economy Fare+ 10000 yen, on sale from 01DEC07


25 Viscount724 : I count 2 LX destinations in South America, not 1 - GRU and SCL. And 6 LX destinations in North America, not 5, actually it's 7 if you count airports
26 Centrair : Ooooh! New Ecomony! Wonder if NH is going to introduce a new International Economy. Both need updates. This is just in time for their first 787s! Ful
27 Airpearl : Premium economy seats look really good. The drawing makes them look like "fixed shell" type seats, similar to many Business Class seats today where t
28 Aaron747 : Current schedule to CDG: NRT-CDG JL405 77W xSat NRT-CDG JL415 772 xSat NGO-CDG JL437 772 xWed
29 Jimyvr : It is in fact based on the Shell Flat Seat design.
30 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = OMG, 2 destinations I left out. Surely, this changes everything . Anyways, I am sure you are right. I did a quick search on Airline Route Maps (htt
31 Vincewy : Finally someone else is introducing premium economy, now BR has competition now. BTW, I consider 40 seats on a 777 too few, when BR introduced 773ER,
32 Swissgabe : The so called hunter strategy wasn't anything else then a buying into a lot of other European airlines and build a large European network. I think if
33 Magyarorszag : The A346 were to replace the MD-11 of which SR bought 16 new and four second hand from LTU. These four were used to replace the B743 that were withdr
34 Jimyvr : Keep in mind most of the travellers out there are bargain hunters in Economy, and few want to pay full fare, so that's why the Premium Economy (in fa
35 Airbuseric : Not correct. JL's flights to Europe all arrive mid- to late afternoon at the European airports (AMS/LHR/FRA/CDG/MXP/FCO). No early arrivals in the mo
36 Naritaflyer : Pardon, oui, that was the AF flight, not JAL. Again, sorry.
37 Jimyvr : It's rival ANA is considering to use 777-300ER to London, btw.
38 Post contains images Aaron747 : ANA has had premium economy for just under two years now. Mind you, about five rows of it per aircraft and that's it
39 Airbuseric : As JL operates the 777-300ER already daily on their JL401/402 service (as well to CDG and FRA), NH is late with their introduction of the 77W on a Eu
40 Aaron747 : That's because they were tasked to the premium high yield routes in the US first. The 744s still operated to Europe are in the 287 seat 4-class config
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