Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Status Of DAL Love Field And Dart Rail?  
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Several years ago, the Dallas Area Rapid Transit authority (DART) was seeking to expand commuter rail in North Dallas, including direct access to the Love Field passenger terminal. IIRC, these plans were canceled when federal funding collapsed and DART lacked the funds to tunnel under the airport themselves.

At the time, I thought DART planned to stop near Bachman Lake and opperate some sort of shuttle service to the airport. However, the latest DART expansion plans show a Love Field station opening in 2010. Has direct Love Field access been revisited?



39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Last I heard, no direct train access, but they'll be building a stop at the location below and running some type of shuttle to the terminal. If it's changed from that, I haven't heard about it...



User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

They've been talking for years about putting DART rail service into DFW as well...still no concrete plans.

They run a shuttle from DFW to the Remote South Parking lot to the Trinity Rail Express...it's a huge hassle. I used it one day to/from work when DFW was iced in (kinda like today). Took me almost 3 hours to get home (a 15 minute drive on most days.).

I know the funding isn't exactly there, but you'd think they could come up with it somehow. The economic impact has huge potential.

Then again, DFW Parking revenues would drop...and that's just about all they have these days to make up for the debt they incurred with the "International" Terminal D.

In comparison to the mass transit systems in most major cities, DART just doesn't really cut it. Extremely inconvenient.


User currently offlineMinuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

Quoting JayDub (Reply 2):
They run a shuttle from DFW to the Remote South Parking lot to the Trinity Rail Express...it's a huge hassle.

Then again, DFW Parking revenues would drop...and that's just about all they have these days to make up for the debt they incurred with the "International" Terminal D.

There originally were plans to have rail service to DFW, but the taxi and off-airport parking companies successfully lobbied against it, with the shuttle bus becoming a compromise.


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2014 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
Last I heard, no direct train access, but they'll be building a stop at the location below and running some type of shuttle to the terminal. If it's changed from that, I haven't heard about it...

I believe this is still the plan. The station will be on Denton Drive and a bus will take passengers to the terminal. You'd think they could at least build a pedestrian tunnel under the runway with moving sidewalks - the walk really wouldn't be that far!

Once again, an air-rail connection in the US is going to be completely botched. Almost every airport in Europe and Asia worth its salt has trains running directly into the terminal building. Here in the US we only have a handful - ORD, DCA, ATL, SFO and a few others. It's too bad, too - DART is already estimating that the Green Line will have enormous ridership, and being able to come right into the terminal building would be infinitely preferable to having to drag bags, children, etc. onto a shuttle bus.

If it's not convenient, people won't use it. Someday, maybe, mass-transit planners in the US will realize this.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Yes, it is both unfortunate and shortsighted.

I don't think it necessarily means that we will never see direct DART Rail service to either DAL or DFW. DART tore down the Park Lane station when the North Dallas expansion was complete to make way for the new elevated station. The remains of the abandoned can still be found. Likewise, whenever we get political leadership with a stronger will, perhaps the rail line to DAL/DFW can be "fixed."


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26339 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 4):
Here in the US we only have a handful - ORD, DCA, ATL, SFO and a few others.

PDX and MDW also come to mind. BUR actually has one, as the walk is so short and the airport is so outdoor in nature that it should qualify. MSP has one, though the Hiawatha Line really needs to expand from what it is now. Technically, JFK has one, but it isn't a one seat ride yet. IAD is getting one. There is no good reason why LGA doesn't have one, except for the all too powerful taxi lobby.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
Likewise, whenever we get political leadership with a stronger will, perhaps the rail line to DAL/DFW can be "fixed."

Unfortunately, your political leadership seems more pre-occupied with spending massive amounts on toll roads then handing them over to private companies to make money on.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):

Unfortunately, your political leadership seems more pre-occupied with spending massive amounts on toll roads then handing them over to private companies to make money on.

So very, very, very true....

Rahh!!  thumbsdown   thumbsdown  Angry  banghead   headache   bomb   hissyfit   yell   yuck   thumbsdown   thumbsdown 


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting Minuteman (Reply 3):
There originally were plans to have rail service to DFW, but the taxi and off-airport parking companies successfully lobbied against it, with the shuttle bus becoming a compromise.

This may sound ridiculous...but why not privatize the parking lots of the rail stations? Let those parking companies run them.

As for the taxi companies...screw them. I'm a little bitter about the insane taxi fare I paid for a quick ride downtown from DFW once when I went home to visit.


User currently offlineJustplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 516 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Wasn't a people-mover funded by a PFC connecting the DART station with the new/renovated terminal part of the WA agreement?

User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

How old is that map? I ask because it seems strange that the northerly end of the line doesn't extend to the Bush. I would have thought that would be a logical end of the line with a huge Park and Ride.


Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
How old is that map? I ask because it seems strange that the northerly end of the line doesn't extend to the Bush. I would have thought that would be a logical end of the line with a huge Park and Ride.

Both the Red and Green Lines will extend past the Bush, it's just a matter of the Bush not being drawn on the map. If you look at the Red Line, you can see the Bush Turnpike station that has been open for several years now. Both the Downtown Plano and Parker Road stations are north of the Bush.

If you look at the Green Line, the northern-most station is North Carrollton/Frankford. Since Frankford runs north of the Bush from Marsh Ln to I-35E, I assume the Green Line will cross under the Bush at some point.


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
Both the Red and Green Lines will extend past the Bush, it's just a matter of the Bush not being drawn on the map. If you look at the Red Line, you can see the Bush Turnpike station that has been open for several years now. Both the Downtown Plano and Parker Road stations are north of the Bush.

If you look at the Green Line, the northern-most station is North Carrollton/Frankford. Since Frankford runs north of the Bush from Marsh Ln to I-35E, I assume the Green Line will cross under the Bush at some point.

Aw, I see now, my apologies for not looking closer.



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineCjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Quoting Justplanenutz (Reply 9):
Wasn't a people-mover funded by a PFC connecting the DART station with the new/renovated terminal part of the WA agreement?

When are we going to see the plans for the new updated terminal for DAL as part of the WA compromise?

Quoting JayDub (Reply 2):
They've been talking for years about putting DART rail service into DFW as well...still no concrete plans.

According to the DART website DFW is supposed to have Light-Rail access by 2013.

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/orangeline.asp



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

It looks like they had planned on the Orange line serving Texas Stadium with two stations. I wonder if they will combine the UofD stop with the Loop 12 stop?

Also, was the proposed north East-West line to stop at DFW? If not, the orange line does little to offer service for the northern suburbs along 75.



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3915 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4760 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

i cant wait until we open up the lines here at IAH/HOU..............my great-grandchildren will really benefit from this access!!!  yawn 


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4270 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

DART is taking over the rail line that runs right next to Denton Drive, so the station will be located on Denton. Not the absolute best location for a DAL station, but it is the cheapest, which is music to DART's ears. Honestly, I'm just glad that we finally committed to a light rail system, that it is functional, and that it actually does a decent job of covering large parts of Dallas County. Arlington never signed on to the agreement for DART rail and is the largest city in the nation without a public transit system (population apprx. 360,000), which screws over people who would like to take the train to the Ballpark, Six Flags, or the new Cowboys stadium.

We'll see what happens with DART rail and the airports in the future, but it will take a while to transform the track into the double tracks with all the other gadgets they need to make it work. Also possibly coming into play is the Texas High Speed Rail Corridor, running from Dallas to San Antonio, with a spur line from Killeen to Houston. The goal would be to feed the AUS and SAT traffic onto the rail line and send it to downtown Dallas and Houston. AA and CO are members of the committee pushing for this project. While high speed rail is needed in Texas, especially in the Texas Triangle, the current plan leaves much to be desired. If anyone is interested, here is the Texas High Speed Rail and Transportation Corporation website.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting Minuteman (Reply 3):
There originally were plans to have rail service to DFW, but the taxi and off-airport parking companies successfully lobbied against it, with the shuttle bus becoming a compromise.

Not true. The Orange Line is still planned to reach DFW, and should connect with the DFW SkyLink system.

Quoting Justplanenutz (Reply 9):
Wasn't a people-mover funded by a PFC connecting the DART station with the new/renovated terminal part of the WA agreement?

Yes. See http://www.setlovefree.com/pdf/agree_amendment.pdf Section 5.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 17):
Not true. The Orange Line is still planned to reach DFW, and should connect with the DFW SkyLink system.

Any idea how they plan to make that work? SkyLink is currently on the secured side only.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 4):
Once again, an air-rail connection in the US is going to be completely botched. Almost every airport in Europe and Asia worth its salt has trains running directly into the terminal building. Here in the US we only have a handful - ORD, DCA, ATL, SFO and a few others. It's too bad, too - DART is already estimating that the Green Line will have enormous ridership, and being able to come right into the terminal building would be infinitely preferable to having to drag bags, children, etc. onto a shuttle bus.

It is sad, especially when local governments will bow down to privately owned for-profit taxi companies rather than providing the public benefit they're being elected to provide.

Quoting JayDub (Reply 8):
As for the taxi companies...screw them. I'm a little bitter about the insane taxi fare I paid for a quick ride downtown from DFW once when I went home to visit.

Agreed. For-profit companies shouldn't dictate transportation decisions simply because it will hurt their revenues, despite the public interest to the contrary.


User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

DFWrevolution,

I might be misreading your post but I don't think DART tore down the station at Park Lane. My wife and I rode the TRE to Union Station during the Christmas holidays, then caught Dart Light Rail to Park Lane to go shopping over at North Park.

Can you please explain what you mean by your comments that Dart tore down the Park Lane station ?? I'm confused.

CJPark, there isn't going to be a Master Plan drawn up for DAL. Not just yet if my sources are correct. Southwest is going to add about 40 more gates at Love Field from what I'm being told. Going to buy out the Signature Flight Services property, as well as the Gulfstream facility as well as the Associated Air Center facility. I think eventually WN will have about 400 flights a day in and out of DAL with probably N/S service to HNL, LGW, CDG and FRA.  Smile

LOL !!!  Smile


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4270 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 20):
I might be misreading your post but I don't think DART tore down the station at Park Lane. My wife and I rode the TRE to Union Station during the Christmas holidays, then caught Dart Light Rail to Park Lane to go shopping over at North Park.

Can you please explain what you mean by your comments that Dart tore down the Park Lane station ?? I'm confused.

The original Park Lane Station was on the south side of Park at street level. They tore that part down to make way for the elevated station. Park remains one of the busiest stations in the system, helped by a sizable population, having name recognition as the former northernmost station in the system, and being within a stone's throw of the largest mall in Texas (Northpark Mall). Hope that helps!

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Quoting Texan (Reply 21):
The original Park Lane Station was on the south side of Park at street level. They tore that part down to make way for the elevated station

 checkmark  The tracks and platforms of the abandoned station are still there


User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting JayDub (Reply 18):
Any idea how they plan to make that work? SkyLink is currently on the secured side only.

 eyepopping Wow...hadn't thought of that. They'll have to get TSA involved and screen all the passengers and bags coming off of DART. What a mess!



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 20):
CJPark, there isn't going to be a Master Plan drawn up for DAL. Not just yet if my sources are correct. Southwest is going to add about 40 more gates at Love Field from what I'm being told. Going to buy out the Signature Flight Services property, as well as the Gulfstream facility as well as the Associated Air Center facility. I think eventually WN will have about 400 flights a day in and out of DAL with probably N/S service to HNL, LGW, CDG and FRA.

You're about 2-1/2 months early for April Fools Day...  Wink

Funny though....


25 Post contains images JayDavis : OPNLguy, I knew you would appreciate that !! A guy can wish, can't he ???
26 N1120A : That makes good sense. Kind of funny considering that DAL had a rather inovative people mover at one time. What the hell for? Why give over city prop
27 Cjpark : Gee, where was this indignation during the effort to repeal the Wright Amendment? We all know that our Governments stepped all over themselves to mak
28 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Yeah, that's it right there...
29 SCCutler : SeeJay: When swabbing your ears, do you stop when you encounter resistance? Do they breathe air on your planet? Just wondering...
30 JayDavis : I still have no "earthly" ha ha ha !!! Idea why SeeJay hates WN so badly. Did they not accept your resume or application for flight attendant school??
31 AirRyan : MSP is pretty good... I think that would take a lot of business away from CO, AA, and WN.
32 Post contains images Brons2 : No kidding. We fought the good fight here in AUS and lost. Privately run toll roads are growing like weeds on the north part of our fair city. The ea
33 N1120A : WN doesn't own DAL, the city does. Hopefully your government will realize the error of their ways and at least take over the tolls like governments i
34 SCCutler : ...it'd be nice, but I do not expect anything that rational from our state government. More's the pity.
35 Cjpark : SC, Do they value honesty and integrity on your planet? In name only, we have not had control over that airport since Southwest moved in.
36 SCCutler : Ever and always, thanks.
37 N1120A : Oh get off it man. As if AA doesn't have the DFW people with a vice grip. Airlines all had the right to not sign the DFW agreement and stay at DAL. T
38 Cjpark : If you do not want a reply do not answer posts. If you want to cry wolf and request this thread be locked go for it. AA does not have a legislated mo
39 N1120A : Southwest doesn't either, and you know it. Jeez.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Odd 737-800 At DAL Love Field posted Wed Feb 15 2006 04:01:03 by OPNLguy
Roll Out Status Of AF New First And Buss Class posted Mon Jan 9 2006 01:46:38 by Ibhayi
Independence @ DAL Love Field? posted Fri Jun 17 2005 17:13:52 by SunValley
Status Of Lufthansa Airbus 310 And 300 posted Tue Jan 13 2004 16:18:52 by Mxp
Status Of Korean Air B743 And B742? posted Thu Oct 23 2003 12:18:54 by Udo
2 Questoins Regarding DAL (Love Field) posted Fri May 16 2003 22:57:33 by 727LOVER
LHR-DAL(Love Field) Service In 60/70s posted Thu Jul 11 2002 20:25:58 by Invicta
Will AA Stay At Dal? (Love Field) posted Sat Jan 13 2001 05:38:20 by Flightboy24
PA Flights Out Of DAL And DFW posted Sun May 7 2006 22:28:04 by Starstream707
Help With Status Of Premium C And P Class posted Wed Jan 11 2006 19:15:49 by Flyfirst