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15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320  
User currently offlineGFA330 From Turkey, joined Oct 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6048 times:

How is safe is a 15,5 hr utilization on a 15 year old A320 acft ?
I am not an expert but recently found out that all A320's within our company are running at this utilization.

What is the average ? What is technically responsible ?

Any info/insight somebody ?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6043 times:

Quoting GFA330 (Thread starter):
I am not an expert but recently found out that all A320's within our company are running at this utilization.

I am not an expert, but why not go ask your maintenance staff if it is safe or not...? They would probably know more then we would, since they work with the airplanes on a daily basis and know what type of maintenance is done.


User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6027 times:

If the necessary maintenance, as specified by the manufacturer, is done, then there should be no problem. Heck, your company is to be admired for getting such an utilisation out of an A320 !


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Well If it´s good maintenance , it should be no problem .

User currently offlineGFA330 From Turkey, joined Oct 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 1):
I am not an expert, but why not go ask your maintenance staff if it is safe or not...? They would probably know more then we would, since they work with the airplanes on a daily basis and know what type of maintenance is done.

all outsourced to SR technics. One of the reasons I am asking is that we are incurring quite some delays recently due to tech situations, so naturally the question is coming up with a lot of people if we are not squizing too much out of them.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8199 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Are the tech delays proof that the airline are pushing just a LITTLE BIT too hard? Perhaps. Is it safe? Yes.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4298 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

I'm sure JetBlue's A320s will be of similar utilization (or more) by the time they hit 15 years old!


None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting GFA330 (Thread starter):
How is safe is a 15,5 hr utilization on a 15 year old A320 acft ?

How many cycles?

15.5 on 10 daily cycles is a different kettle of fish from 15.5 hours on 2-3 daily cycles flying primarily longhaul routes.


User currently offlineAutoThrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

Just a question : Can someone tell us what the rough dispatch reability of the A320 is. Would be interesting for comparison, with the 737 NG family.
15,5 hours a day sounds pretty impressive wonder how many cycles this plane has.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5947 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

It has more to do with length of flights than number of hours.
The more cycles, the more airframe stress.

As far as tech delays, this is a problem inherent to A320 ops... just ask Northwest, who enjoys better dispatch reliability out of their elderly DC-9 fleet than their A319s. At least, that's what Favre used to say. Whatever happened to him, anyway?

Anyhoo, tech delays happen, regardless of aircraft age (United had a terrible time introducing 777 service... LOTS of problems, with brand-new aircraft) or utilization.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5194 times:
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I remember reading that some Euro charter airlines would keep their aircraft in the air for 17 hours a day, which meant 3-4 flights a day. As reply 7 says: many cycles are more stressing to the airframe than many flight hours.


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineGFA330 From Turkey, joined Oct 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 7):
How many cycles?

15.5 on 10 daily cycles is a different kettle of fish from 15.5 hours on 2-3 daily cycles flying primarily longhaul routes.

Just checked on the A320 the average is about 8 to 10 cycles.

It seems that our 767's have similar problems, utilization is ok but the average stage lenght is about 2,5 hrs.

Our maintenance guy told me that because of this the undercarriage had to be exchanged at the age of 8 years, while normally they would do this at 12-14 yrs, as the average stage lenght should be about 4,5 to 5 hrs.

This is typical problem for gulf carriers as they often rotate wide bodies intra gulf throughout the day i.e. DXB BAH or DXB DOH etc ....

Interesting to look into this in comparison to other parts of the world. It seems that the Gulf carriers squize a lot out of their acft but not always necessarily the most efficient way.


User currently offlineNonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

The longer in the air the less maintenance can be done at night.This will lead to more problems during the flt day.  airplane 

User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1034 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

It si really impressive how much time modern aircraft stay in the air, most than half of their lifetime. I think I read somewhere that KLM 747 are used 18 hours a day on average, I think that must be record. BTW and one rolls royce engine logged around 60000 hours on wing. Impressive

User currently offlineTobi3334 From Germany, joined Sep 2004, 146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

I am also not an expert but I think 15 hours are not unusual.

A usual german charter-flight leaves at 4:00am and comes back at 11:30pm.
That are 19:30 hours with around 6 to 8 cycles per day.


User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting Tobi3334 (Reply 14):
A usual german charter-flight leaves at 4:00am and comes back at 11:30pm.
That are 19:30 hours with around 6 to 8 cycles per day.

??? I've never seen such a flight timing. Also, you contradict yourself. You say "a typical german charter flight" and then "6-8 cycles per day".



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineZB330 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

On earlier aircraft the normal maintenance package dictated that the aircraft went in to the hangar one night every month. However on more modern aircraft (B737NG/A318-A321) the maintenance package is divided in 'small' tasks which can be performed on the line.

As an example the greasing of the gear. Which in some companies is now divided in three packages i.e. left main gear, right main gear and nose gear. So every time the aircraft is on the ground with sufficient time one of these (or all depending on time) will be performed. Within a month everything 9whole aircraft/whole maintenance package) is done and they start all over again. Obviously it requires close monitoring so that every item is performed when its due.

It's a good system when i worked with it. Hangar time was drasticly reduced and therefore more utilization of the aircraft was possible. Of course the aircraft still needs to be in the hangar because there are these jobs that cant be performed on the line.

In summer we operate our A320/A321 on an average of 18/19 hours with 6 sectors. We don't have any dispatch reliability problems in these months. In our company the dispatch reliability of the A320/A321 fleet is 95%+ (don't know the exact figure at this moment)

The KLM 747 utilization is completely different than a shorthaul aircraft. They may use them for 18 hours a day but this is often only two cycles. And there is normally always a spare 747 standing around in AMs. So its easier to take an aircraft off line to perform maintenance when required.


User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

What are the ideal daily utilizations (hours per day) for long-haul (less than 1 cycle a day, ie: LAX-TPE, HKG-LHR) and regional flights (more than 4 cycles such as TPE-HKG, MAD-LHR)?

User currently offlineTobi3334 From Germany, joined Sep 2004, 146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 15):
I've never seen ... "6-8 cycles per day".

Sorry, I was refering to 6-8 flights per day.
e.g.
HAM-ALC-HAM-FCO-NUE-STN-NUE
FRA-ALC-DUS-PMI-DUS-ALC-FRA
FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA (okay, that's non-charter)


User currently offlineBimmerkid19 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 13):

I believe that might have been an RB524 on an Icelandair 757-200ER


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2572 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 19):
I believe that might have been an RB524 on an Icelandair 757-200ER

Just a technical point - On a 757 that would have been an RB211-535 (and indeed it was... Smile ).
The RB211-524 is the bigger engine as fitted to 747's

Regards


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