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US Airways Expansion From The UK?  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

I was wondering what the chances are of seeing any US Airways expansion out of the UK in the coming years... With the 757 becoming more common place in the US fleet, flying accross the Atlantic they add some additional capacity...

Only a few years back (I think uptil 2003/04) they operated a second daily service to PHL from LGW with a 767 and also a daily 767 service PIT from LGW too. I remember seeing all four US aircraft parked up on the Satilite Pier at LGW... At present routes from the UK are:

1x 330 - LGW-PHL
1x 330 - LGW-CLT
1x 330 - MAN-PHL
1x 752 - GLA-PHL (Summer Only Service)

I am aware an LGW-PHX service probably remains off target for a few years until they get longer range aircrafts in place...

But is there scope for further capacity from their east coast hubs to the UK? With AA and CO showing no signs of offering NCL a Transatlantic service, US could come and steel the show. Also going back a few years ago BHX had far more Transatlantic capacity then it does now and wondering if this could work for US... Routes I was thinking that could work:

752 - LGW-PIT
752/762 - LGW-PHL (Additional daily service - on top of the A330 service)
762 - MAN-CLT
752/762 - GLA-PHL (Increased to all year round)
752 - BHX-PHL
752 - NCL-PHL

Any Thoughts?   

With US Airways flying into UK airports lacking being a Star Alliance Hub or limited connections, would this be a reason why US has grown elsewhere in Europe?

Frankfurt & Munich being Lufthansa hubs.
Stockholm being a Scandanavian hub.
Barcelona & Madrid being Spanair hubs.
Zurich a Swiss hub.
Lisbon a TAP hub.

[Edited 2007-01-19 13:38:21]

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3326 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

The 762 that was used for the 2nd LGW frequency in the summer was switched to a 2nd daily flt to FRA and apparently it is one of the best performing flts. So don't think a 2nd frequency to LGW is coming anytime soon.

User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3204 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
762 - MAN-CLT

Do you mean replacing the A330 service? Or as an additional service? The MAN-PHL route was done by a 762 when it first started, I personally cannot see them reverting from the modern A330 back to the rather out dated 767-200. Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 6354 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
Do you mean replacing the A330 service? Or as an additional service?

No I mean't with MAN-CLT being an additinal service to the A330 MAN-PHL route.

If I remember reading correctly the MAN-PHL service is one the best selling Transatlantic routes they operate. When the route first started US had no intention of increasing the capacity on the route to an A330, but once the took delivery of the Airbus this was one of the first routes to be upgraded. It has remained as popular ever since...


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.

It sure is  Smile does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

Have they repainted any A330s in the new livery because I could have swore I saw one fly overhead last week. (Although I had just left the dentist and was a little trippy).

I think if NCL (or was it EDI) re-offered the incentives to fly there US would start flights.

MAN has good Star Alliance connections with BD, LH, LX & SK all serving (heck even SQ), but I think the MAN-PHL flight is all O&D traffic is not really benefiting from connections. The MAN-CLT could be a good way to test the water, I mean AA did it with MIA & BOS which proves you don't need to fly from your HQ Airport to make a sucess of Trans Atlantic flights.

I'd love to see US have a larger presence here, or any Airline for that matter.

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 6240 times:
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I would imagine US having two daily PHL to LGW flights ? This would be from their biggest European gateway, PHL, to LGW. Philadelphia to FRA cold be bigger since its LH hub but PHL to London still ranks up there for impoetant routes to Europe.

User currently offlineJamman From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

I flew to PHL last year with US and enjoyed the service and the cabin (I have flown AA and CO prevously) the IFE is by far the best out of MAN to the states.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
does it continue to SFO

No, as far as I know the A330 terminates at PHL and passengers move to another US domestic a/c.

[Edited 2007-01-19 14:36:51]


Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3204 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 3):
No I mean't with MAN-CLT being an additinal service to the A330 MAN-PHL route.

Aaah gotcha  Wink I'm not too sure whether this would take off (no pun intended) because the PHL route is less flying time on a better aircraft, I can't see people wanting a longer journey.  Sad

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

I remember it being listed as LAX for a while. The aircraft goes to PHL, from there you have to transfer to another aircraft. Either way... it's kinda false advertising...

As far as I know, none of the A330's US has, have been painted in the new scheme. I for one, hope they don't bother painting them, as they look absolutely fantastic how they are.
 Smile



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

I'd like to see DUB-PHL go year round. There was talks of EI wanting to pick up the route, but if US stayed year round, it might frighten them off!!!

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

I for one would hope that US does not start PHX-LGW service. Should that happen, then PHX loses the LHR service with all the connections to Europe that LHR offers. Until PHX gets additional service to Europe, keep BA and LHR!

User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
I for one would hope that US does not start PHX-LGW service. Should that happen, then PHX loses the LHR service with all the connections to Europe that LHR offers. Until PHX gets additional service to Europe, keep BA and LHR!

Sorry, I don't quite understand, why would US starting PHX-LGW cause BA to withdraw their PHX-LHR flights? Is it because of Bermuda 2?

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineDj1986 From Luxembourg, joined Apr 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

I think the second daily PHL-LGW flight operated by US was mainly because they had a partnership with BA in the 90's. So they could offer connections all over Europe. It is the same with FRA just that the connections today are provided by LH/Star. If they switch the alliance after the possible DL takeover they will operated a second daily PHL-CDG in the summer.


on strike! finally VC!
User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

Adding more flights to the UK is pointless, IMO. The UK isn't a very big country and US Airways already serves enough cities that are all a couple hours driving from any location on the island. Connecting PHL to the smaller US cities just doesn't have enough demand and therefore doesn't make much sense to start.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):
Sorry, I don't quite understand, why would US starting PHX-LGW cause BA to withdraw their PHX-LHR flights? Is it because of Bermuda 2?

Yes - if any airlines start PHX-LGW, BA have to move their service to Gatwick too

The problem with launching regional UK flights is that PHL does not have the O&D of New York. CO make them work because they can combine the O&D with connections at their EWR hub

I could see BHX-PHL working on a B752 and GLA-PHL going year round but nothing more at PHL. PIT-LGW on a B752 would be good though



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineGayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

A second PHL - MAN with an onward connection to BOM might be an idea?

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
PIT-LGW on a B752 would be good though

Many of us, myself, CentPIT etc keep saying on here how PIT-anywhere Europe would be good, but if only the O&D numbers said the same...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
MAN has good Star Alliance connections with BD, LH, LX & SK all serving (heck even SQ), but I think the MAN-PHL flight is all O&D traffic is not really benefiting from connections. The MAN-CLT could be a good way to test the water, I mean AA did it with MIA & BOS which proves you don't need to fly from your HQ Airport to make a sucess of Trans Atlantic flights.

Yes AA has done flights out of BOS and MIA to MAN. BOS is seasonal, it runs for a little under 8 months with a daily 752. One thing that both MIA and BOS have that CLT doesnt is solid O&D to England. Also, MIA is a large AA hub, I believe their second or third largest station, so to say that MIA is not one of the AA "HQ" cities is wrong. BOS on the other is a decent sized focus city for them. The one thing that CLT has is location; CLT is better suited for passengers to connect to points throughout the US.

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:18:08]

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:20:07]

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:21:15]

User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
It sure is does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

Just the flight numbers continue on for marketing purposes (same with LAX). The transcon US flights are operated by A32X equipment.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
Many of us, myself, CentPIT etc keep saying on here how PIT-anywhere Europe would be good, but if only the O&D numbers said the same...

If you add in the remaining conections at PIT, could that support a flight?

Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

PIT to FRA would be perfect!!! I dont see it happening though!!!

User currently offlineRayPettit From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 12):
Adding more flights to the UK is pointless, IMO. The UK isn't a very big country and US Airways already serves enough cities that are all a couple hours driving from any location on the island. Connecting PHL to the smaller US cities just doesn't have enough demand and therefore doesn't make much sense to start.

The thread starter asked whether US Airways would serve Newcastle. This is indeed one city that exceeds your "couple hours drive" criteria. There are in fact a great many more locations on our "small island" that are much further away than that!

I'm not certain that NCL would be viable though, but you never know.


User currently offlineCharliejag1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
I personally cannot see them reverting from the modern A330 back to the rather out dated 767-200. Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.

A bit off topic, but from what I have heard from my east couterparts, the A330s go on mx alot more than the Boeings, almost aloways for an interiors issue. The impression I got is that the East side loves the plane except for the cabin because it always breaks and causes mx issues.


User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?

Yes, i'm almost sure PIT-FRA has a higher yearly O&D than PIT-LGW. However, i'm not certain PIT-FRA can be serviced with a B752. I am hoping/praying PIT-LGW is returned soon with a B752? I do have my doubts as well.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
However, i'm not certain PIT-FRA can be serviced with a B752.

Don't forget CO has a 752 servicing CLE-LGW, so with winglets, the range shouldn't be an issue.



.......
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
Don't forget CO has a 752 servicing CLE-LGW, so with winglets, the range shouldn't be an issue.

Sure, but I don't think US is interested in equipping their 757s with winglets for any expanded ETOPS service to anything further than the UK and Portugal.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
If you add in the remaining conections at PIT, could that support a flight?

Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?

I see that CentPIT has answered the second question already. It does have higher O&D than PIT-LGW, but I don't think it's enough to have US put a 767 or any long haul on the route, and LH has already stated they have no aircraft either, or that it was not feasible. (Speakig of LH, I just heard over 98.1 WOGL Philli that LH was offering RTs as low as $389 round trip to Europe. I guess with all the taxes thrown in, it's more like 650-700 bucks, right? sorry for that tangent in advance!)

Andway, coming back to the first question, I think US wants to focus on putting more transatlantic flights out of Philadelphia. That is, of course, their main gateway/only major gateway into Europe/any international destination US currently serves. The international O&D there is pretty high and PHL can be very profitable for US than what it is now possibly. This may be presumptuous, but if the O&D can't support international service out of PHL, then why does US have at least 20 flights alone jumping across the Atlantic? Not to mention, the Lisbon 757s are packed I believe...

I would love to see US or somebody bring back PIT transatlantic service, but it is not happening yet...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 Vega : All US Trans-Atlantic 757s are being equipped with winglets, which would put PIT-FRA still out of reach unless cargo/passenger loads were compromised
26 A330323X : US won't be adding transatlantic flights at PIT. Would be too low-yielding and marginal a route. The existing daily on LGW-PHL is an underperforming
27 8herveg : I hope US do start a service to BHX. Like someone said above, there aren't enough routes to the states anymore from BHX. I think any of the following
28 Vega : I thought they were considering CDG as the next possiblity from CLT. Why MAD?
29 A330323X : CLT-CDG has been run in the past, and it really sucked. (Of course, were US to wind up a partner of AF after this merger nonsense, I'm sure they woul
30 Vega : I know they do well with PHL-MAD, but (I'm just guessing here) I assume the PHL flight has sufficient O&D both ways to support it without the need fo
31 Steeler83 : Unfortunately... But we just have to face the music. PIT is a great facility to connecct in, but it doesn't even have O&D to support any kind of serv
32 CentPIT : For 2006, the latrst numbers are January-November: 9,214,510 As soon as December 2006 is official I will let you know Steeler83!
33 Vega : The reported PIT numbers for the Period Jan 1 - 31 Sept 2006 are: Total Passengers (TP) = 7,515,258 Total O&D (TO&D) = 6,836,770 Connecting = TP - TO&
34 Post contains images BMIE70 : Do the ETOPS 752s have business class or are they all economy? Perhaps they should switch the GLA flight to EDI and operate year round? IIRC EDI has m
35 Humberside : More connections, but not a significant number - cities like FRA and BRU are served non stop from PHL and via US's other European destinations
36 Bobnwa : How do you know this with such certainty and it you do, please give us the other trans-atlantic routes in order of profitability. In airlines I am fa
37 Flyboyaz : They came from ATA with a small "first class" section...but they are not sold initially, you can pay an upgrade fee at the gate to get the larger sea
38 Post contains images Concorde001 : Thanks for your insightful posts! May I ask, how does US' MAN-PHL route do compared to its other European routes? Is it one of the most profitable? D
39 CentPIT : Well then, the O&D for PIT in 2006 should surpass the O&D for 2005. 2005-(7,096,350) I think 2006 might just surpass it!
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